Jack Slack on Ronda: "Any top 50 flyweight would eat her alive."

[Le 7th Samurai]

Ronda fans are just excited that there is finally a UFC champion who like having dicks inside them as much as they all do. Can't blame them for getting carried away.

This, lol.

 

[jamiehunter]

I'm more ripped than that guy. I'd still call him over Ronda. For the same reason there are weight classes men are not allowed to fight women. Out-of-shape men perhaps, but anybody with a reasonable muscle:body fat content should be able to knock her out cold with ease. Fuck your white knight-hood.

It's not 'white knighting' to say the #1 female fighter in the world would beat a guy who has stated he has no experience in fighting. Weight classes exist because, theoretically, the competitors are on the same technical level. That's also the reason for the separation of gender.

Summary: technique > strength, technique + strength > technique.

 

[chokeyou]

I love how people pretend like Ronda has horrible hands, most people saying that don't know what the fuck they're talking about and are just repeating garbage they've heard. Have you ever even watched women's boxing?

 

[Got GOAT]

So perhaps her offensive skills are greater than Joanna's?

Define "greater"? Ronda has power in her hands but she's technically a very poor striker. She can submit an opponent very quickly but we all know what she favors the most, what else has she got besides that armbar that she can use against these 'elite' level opponents of hers? Joanna, on the other hand, can finish in a number of ways. She has a win by submission on her MMA record but she prefers to stand pick her opponents apart before finishing them, methodically, technically, and extremely skillfully. She's a sniper with one of the best jabs in MMA and some of the cleanest, slickest combinations, including men's MMA. Joanna has variety and an arsenal of strikes she can use to finish. Ronda has brawling with her fists, clinch throws & trips and an excellent armbar.

 

[BigMuffler]

You're so in love with Joanna that you're inventing a whole new reality where she's invincible.

He's literally using the argument people used for Mayweather for Joanna against an equal-sized Ronda. Dat (relatively) superhuman speed and impenetrable TDD.

 

[Ragnarocker]

Yea he does train, but you fail to mention that the kid was in tournaments all day, I forget how many matches he was in earlier but I know he was pretty spent. Besides these are kids, strength is closer between the sexes at that age than at adulthood when males are through puberty and achieved full growth.

They rematched on Tosh.0 and the guy wrecked the girl. Nothing to be proud of really since he's much bigger than her.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I single quoted on top, I was undermining it's value is all. You decided to take this literally, therefore, you did essentially lie.

I watched the Rousey-Zingano "fight". And no, even a much less than world class Judoka would have no problem handling a fighter literally running at them the way Cat did. That was some seriously amateur schoolyard brawl throw attempt and she was trying it against a world class clinch grappler at the Olympic level, a medalist at that. It wasn't impressive that she got reversed by someone 50x better at her than what she was trying on Ronda, and a very amateur attempt at that.

[GFY]ConcreteFaithfulAmurminnow[/GFY]​

You called me liar for paraphrasing you as saying "Ronda is not on top". Your exact words were "Don't delude yourself into thinking that Ronda is really 'on top'".

And you're calling me a liar? Lol. I wouldn't mind it if you tried to twist my words to make me look bad, but twisting your own words to make me look bad is too much. Get the fuck out.

As far as the gif, Zingano gets on underhook with her right arm and throws Ronda to the ground. Ugly, but not amateurish. She got a takedown in about three seconds. Ronda twists her entire body in the air and reverses it. I have never seen another MMA grappler do that in any fight, though admittedly my knowledge of MMA is not comprehensive. Can you show me a picture, gif, or video of any similar reversal ever?

 

[BigMuffler]

Define "greater"? Ronda has power in her hands but she's technically a very poor striker. She can submit an opponent very quickly but we all know what she favors the most, what else has she got besides that armbar that she can use against these 'elite' level opponents of hers? Joanna, on the other hand, can finish in a number of ways. She has a win by submission on her MMA record but she prefers to stand pick her opponents apart before finishing them, methodically, technically, and extremely skillfully. She's a sniper with one of the best jabs in MMA and some of the cleanest, slickest combinations, including men's MMA. Joanna has variety and an arsenal of strikes she can use to finish. Ronda has brawling with her fists, clinch throws & trips and an excellent armbar.

Joanna has 1 submission win over some fighter almost no one has heard of, Ronda has 3 wins with strikes over 2 legit top 5 fighters and 1 relative scrub with an artificially high ranking who is probably still better than that random Joanna subbed. Also one of those wins by strikes was with clinch knees, not a punch.

Based on what's happened in the real world, it's not disputable that Ronda has shown more well-rounded offense.

 

[Le 7th Samurai]

It's not 'white knighting' to say the #1 female fighter in the world would beat a guy who has stated he has no experience in fighting. Weight classes exist because, theoretically, the competitors are on the same technical level. That's also the reason for the separation of gender.

Summary: technique > strength, technique + strength > technique.

And sometimes

Basic technique + strength > Really good technique.

 

[jamiehunter]

Actually my testosterone production isn't great at all. Infact my T/E ratio is a bit out of whack.

I'm genuinly considering doing steroids, cause this estrogen shit is fucking up my gains and allocation of fat.

So i might be a bad example of your theory of testosterone poisoning.

But i get your point.

And yes, i would never be one to claim i'd beat the male UFC fighters, i'd be the first death in the ring.
Hell, i think Mighty Mouse and Dodson would probably send me to lala-land.

And yet, this might be that delusion talking, i do think i would atleast win a couple against some of those lighter guys, since i can actually box, and could probably muscle my way out of some of the clinches etc. and land a clean blow. Probably not as they are coming in though, those midget fuckers are fast.

But the women. Nope, they don't have any chance. They are way too slow, too sloppy and too soft. They'd just flop over lifeless, i'm farily certain.

Ps. I'd also argue the reverse, that you are infact the one suffering the greater delusion. Possibly based off a lack of strong female role models, or an underlying fear of the fact that when walking anywhere, or being in public in general, men can literally do whatever they want to you, and you would be helpless, and the only thing stopping this from happening, is that we don't.
So you need to cling to this idea that technique and skill can overcome, yadayda..

I can play a psychologist too

Honestly a decent portion of the women I would agree with you if you actually do have some boxing training. We're not talking about the women Ronda destroys in less than a minute though. We're talking about Ronda. I think we all realize there's a major difference between Ronda and someone like Bethe.

No, I don't have issues with men nor feel afraid of men. There's no need for me to be afraid of men. However, women who have issues with men typically didn't have strong male role models in her life not strong female role models.

A delusion would be if I were claiming I'd beat the crap out of guys or if I claimed Ronda would beat up high level guys. It's not a delusion to say a woman like Ronda would best a normal guy off the streets.

 

[Got GOAT]

That's why Claudia closed distance and took her down more than once and dominated the clinch exchanges along the cage. LMFAO.

You're a nub that gets no respect at all from anyone on here because of this. That said, Joanna won the fight. When they rematch, we'll see what happens won't we? Joanna has improved leaps and bounds since in all aspects of her game.

Even Jessica, with her abysmally bad judo, got Joanna down quickly once or twice. LOL.

You know you don't have any real argument when all you can do is "LOL" everything. Joanna got taken down at the end of a round after beating the piss (and blood) out of Penne. Did you forget that part, or? What was Penne able to do with those takedowns? I'll wait. Joanna's TDD has to be penetrated first, and even if it is, she's capable of winning scrambles and creating them to get back to the feet. She's proven this countless times now. "LOL".

Claudia's clinch based TD's are based on brute force, not finely tuned judo throws like Ronda has. And Joanna still couldn't fend those off.

Wrong again, Jetson, Go watch her last fight. And "LOL" at you thinking that Claudia is just executing Judo throws. What a dolt you are.

Jessica's judo trip attempts were laughably bad and horribly telegraphed, as she's just not athletic enough to off-balance her opponent between different throwing combinations.

Like Zingano's was when she fought Rousey you mean? She still went down but was able to reverse position. "LOL". Is Cat some Judoka super talent now too? Hahaha.

Joanna has never demonstrated she can clinch with an Olympic level judoka and defend. Not even close. If she can't fend off Claudia's clinch TD's then she'll get thrown by Ronda far easier.

Ronda has NEVER demonstrated that she can even stand with, let alone survive an elite striker. See what I did there?

Sprawling won't work with Ronda's judo based throws.

Good thing I never said it would or could. However, range control and a jab along with the proper footwork to make it much harder for Ronda to even GET into the clinch would work. Guess who already has this? Ronda could also very well get knocked out bum rushing in to engage the clinch before she even comes close to getting it. Let's give her a Bantamweight version of Joanna to find out. You're getting schooled badly here. You need to step off and go back to pretending you can break fights down while making dumb threads about stupid shit you know nothing at all about.

And her muay thai clinch won't work when an Olympic level judoka starts off balancing her the moment she makes contact, forcing Joanna to defend instantly.

Yeah, cuz world champion level Muay Thai clinch games don't also involve off-balancing an opponent and thrashing them around into their own knees and elbows. Stop posting already, you're retarded.

Ronda's transitional speed and athleticism is just off the charts compared to Claudia or Penne's TD attempts.

Right, cuz you've measured it in your own little lab. Last I checked Claudia was a damn good athlete with explosive takedowns, and quite a variety of them. Not just "Judo throws", smart guy.

You can't elbow or knee somebody who can throw you in less than a second if you're off balance.

You can, you can start by controlling their posture first. Joanna wouldn't likely entertain the clinch game much with Ronda anyway, she'd be looking to strike at range and bust her up. Again, you know nothing about combat sports.

Get a clue.

Take your own advice.

I think Penne's slow judo trip attempts have given you a false sense of Joanna's judo defense abilities.

Reading too much on Sherdog has made you think you know how to accurately breakdown and analyze a fight accurately.

You seem to be equating Penne and Ronda's judo slickness, for some bizarre reason which only retards might understand. :icon_lol:

You seem to be heavily reaching out of desperation and pure frustration. Your problem.

Ronda is better than Ishii at MMA because Ronda's adapted her Newaza to a no-gi environment better than other judokas, whereas Ishii couldn't adapt his elite judo to a no-gi sport like MMA very well.

Thanks for telling me something that probably everyone on here already knew. And at least Ishii medaled gold in their sport, Ronda couldn't. Ronda had to go to MMA to find more success with her Judo. Think of it that way, slick.

In her rematch with Claudia you'll see her get outgrappled -- with Claudia choosing to clinch much more than last time, as per Claudia's own words.

She'll beat Claudia up in the rematch, again. There's a reason Claudia punched Joanna after the bell last time, it was out of pure frustration (which you are experiencing now because you're getting pwned on Sherdog by your superior). :redface:

 

[jamiehunter]

And sometimes

Basic technique + strength > Really good technique.

Rarely and the majority of people don't have even basic technique.

 

[bob]

some shit slack says i dont agree with... but he is right about honda. her 'boxing' isnt that good. she blitzed a chick who went from an mma fit class to fighting cans to a title shot.... that dosent mean she has good boxing. she got hit a few times even as bethe was back peddling and off balance... if she moved her head and took no damage then maybe you could say shes a good striker.

ive said this before... that it LOOKS amazing the way she smashes these chicks.... but if you put a purple belt in the white belt division at a bjj comp they would look amazing too. infact if the media then went on and said this guy is the best grappler in the world look... these white belts are undefeated and his biggest challenge to date... then 99% of the common fans would eat it up and agree.

its really comes down to the people watching not knowing any better.

this is why i liked mma when it was a niche sport... because the 99% knew what was what.... now the scale is completely reversed.

 

[Got GOAT]

You called me liar for paraphrasing you as saying "Ronda is not on top". Your exact words were "Don't delude yourself into thinking that Ronda is really 'on top'".

And you're calling me a liar? Lol. I wouldn't mind it if you tried to twist my words to make me look bad, but twisting your own words to make me look bad is too much. Get the fuck out.

As far as the gif, Zingano gets on underhook with her right arm and throws Ronda to the ground. Ugly, but not amateurish. She got a takedown in about three seconds. Ronda twists her entire body in the air and reverses it. I have never seen another MMA grappler do that in any fight, though admittedly my knowledge of MMA is not comprehensive. Can you show me a picture, gif, or video of any similar reversal ever?

Being on top of a pile (hill) of crap, yes, she most certainly is as I already admitted. That's why I single quoted 'on top' and you took it literally, only to try and claim that I never acknowledged her for being a champion, even though I did, I just devalued the accomplishment by quoting that phrase.

Hit Google if you want to see many ugly and/or amateur throws gone wrong. You must not watch too much MMA if you think this is something new or revolutionary. It's great that you spotted an underhook though.

Literally running straight at an Olympic medalist Judoka and trying to throw THEM, when you're not even anywhere near that yourself (in Cat's case), is absolutely moronic. You seemingly didn't comment on this part and instead would rather be amazed by such a trivial reversal against an "ugly" (your word) throw attempt in the first place.

Joanna has 1 submission win over some fighter almost no one has heard of, Ronda has 3 wins with strikes over 2 legit top 5 fighters and 1 relative scrub with an artificially high ranking who is probably still better than that random Joanna subbed. Also one of those wins by strikes was with clinch knees, not a punch.

Based on what's happened in the real world, it's not disputable that Ronda has shown more well-rounded offense.

Need me to tell you the collective record of Ronda's UFC competition thus far? I'll give you Joanna's if you want and we can compare them. Joanna is more well rounded in her defense and offense, not just in her offense. Rousey is a monster with her offense but has poor striking defense and gave her back up to a smaller opponent that nobody had even heard of until they fought (Liz Carmouche). This is the reality of things.

 

[bob]

I love how people pretend like Ronda has horrible hands, most people saying that don't know what the fuck they're talking about and are just repeating garbage they've heard. Have you ever even watched women's boxing?

its all perspective dude. i look it as boxing ...not womens boxing vs mens boxing.... its just boxing... and her boxing just isnt that good. women want equal rights... welp... ye shall be judged equally imo.

 

[BigMuffler]

Need me to tell you the collective record of Ronda's UFC competition thus far? I'll give you Joanna's if you want and we can compare them.

Miesha and Alexis have more losses because they've fought other top fighters more. The rest of Ronda's opponents were undefeated when they fought Ronda except for Carmouche, who is a gatekeeper type perhaps similar to Lima but also has only lost to top fighters.

You're making the same fallacy Cyborg supporters do when they point to Cyborg's lack of losses as making her far better than the BW contenders even though she's fought only one fighter on their level, thus minimizing her risk of losing. STRENGTH. OF. COMPETITION.

 

[Lepo Lepo]

I remember when the Women's national hockey team in Canada would destroy weak competition internationally, then lose to Bantam boy teams (13-15 year olds,) handily. They would probably have trouble with House league Midget teams. Men and Women are entirely different in athletic competitions.

Even when I was in high school, there was a girl the same height as me then, who ended up playing for the national team, practiced everyday with the provincial team, and basketball was her life. She wouldn't even score a basket on me, if I was going even 60%, eventually I just pitied her and let her score. Basketball was my fourth sport, and only forced to play due to height.

Woman and Men are not meant to compete in athletic competition. This whole narrative with Ronda is ridiculous, and needs to be put to rest. It's just a cheap publicity talking point for ZUFFA.

 

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

Unless those top 50 flyweights have a kitchen or bedroom big enough to hold an octagon, i do not even see why we are talking about a woman and a man fighting.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Being on top of a pile (hill) of crap, yes, she most certainly is as I already admitted. That's why I single quoted 'on top' and you took it literally, only to try and claim that I never acknowledged her for being a champion, even though I did, I just devalued the accomplishment by quoting that phrase.

You just won't stop. You called me a liar for paraphrasing you accurately, then called me a liar again for directly quoting you, and now you want to make it seem like I could only have a very narrow definition for saying she is on top. But not only is she on top of her division, she is on top of the MMA world. In terms of mainstream appeal she is easily the biggest MMA star ever.

Your wrong about Rousey not being on top, by any definition. You're wrong about her accomplishments being meaningless. And you're wrong about me being a liar, you slanderous cur.

Hit Google if you want to see many ugly and/or amateur throws gone wrong. You must not watch too much MMA if you think this is something new or revolutionary. It's great that you spotted an underhook though.

Literally running straight at an Olympic medalist Judoka and trying to throw THEM, when you're not even anywhere near that yourself (in Cat's case), is absolutely moronic. You seemingly didn't comment on this part and instead would rather be amazed by such a trivial reversal against an "ugly" (your word) throw attempt in the first place.

Zingano threw Rousey in three seconds flat. People understandably overlook that because of Rousey's fantastic reversal, but Zingano probably holds the record for the fastest takedown ever in a title fight.

If Ronda's reversal is so trivial, why can't you give me an example of a similar reversal ever being used in MMA? I have asked several times. I think the answer is because it was not a trivial reversal, it was an outstanding reversal. Every high level grappler or analyst who has commented on it, yourself excepted, has given it high praise.

 

[Got GOAT]

Miesha and Alexis have more losses because they've fought other top fighters more. The rest of Ronda's opponents were undefeated when they fought Ronda except for Carmouche, who is a gatekeeper type similar to Lima but also has only lost to top fighters.

Are you giving me context, excuses, or perhaps both? And no comment about Alexis Davis or Liz Carmouche. :icon_lol:

You're making the same fallacy Cyborg supporters do when they point to Cyborg's lack of losses as making her far better than the BW contenders even though she's fought only one fighter on their level, thus minimizing her risk of losing. STRENGTH. OF. COMPETITION.

You're exaggerating. To anyone with a technically proficient eye for an MMA fighter, Joanna is the more appealing of the two. Her TDD is quite good and she has good scrambling to boot. She's never lost either. Good+ TDD & good scrambling + elite striking is a perfect recipe for success. Look at Conor McGregor, Gustafsson, Anderson Silva (though his scrambling wasn't good, his TDD became better after the 1st Sonnen fight and in his later years) and Machida's success.

On the flip side, we have the inverse, high level grapplers that get good enough with their striking to really work it well. Ronda isn't there yet, Weidman is, as a perfect example. Ronda's striking defense simply isn't good, she gets tagged too often and her footwork is very bad. Its like she doesn't even understand how to use angles much at all or to take her head off the center line when attacking. She'd rather just stand and bang, which is less skillful because it requires less technical proficiency. Her elite Judo isn't a cover-all either, it means that her clinch game is elite and so is her armbar that she's known for. It doesn't mean she'll be great everywhere else in the grappling department. She relies too much on entering the clinch to get her takedowns though, I can tell you that much. She needs to develop a good double leg and the shot for it in general. She won't have to brawl her way into clinch range then in order to get the trip/throw to take them down and submit them or pound them out.

Also, the proper term you're looking for is "Strength of Schedule". Ronda's has been very poor.