Jack Slack article on Anderson Silva leg break

[THECYNDlCATE]

Seems like a wild theory to think that he was setting it up and intended for it to break.

However calling it a fluke is just as silly. Doing something well and getting the best result isn't a fluke. Its no more a fluke than Andersons front kick to Vitors face.

I agree with the first part, I don't see how you could even think that was a possibility.

Calling it a fluke,.. is not silly.
It is for a fact, the definition of fluke. You have to remove yourself from the emotion of it, and look at it like a piece of Science. Leg checks happen all of the time in the UFC, there have only been 2 broken shins,.. EVER. That's a statistical fluke. Out of all of the leg checks Chris has ever done, he has broken one shin. That's a fluke.

Now when you talk about that front kick, you are talking about an offensive move. That changes the entire premise of the situation. However, even if we include this in the argument, you will see it is no fluke. There have actually been several front kick KO's now. The move itself isn't often done, but I would say the majority(over 50%) of the time that it actually lands, it results in a KO/TKO. This makes it no fluke. On the other hand, people land leg checks all of the time. Only 2 broken shins like this have happened in the UFC. So, many leg checks in the UFC are executed and landed, but only 2 results like this. That makes it a fluke occurrence.

This should really put an end to the front kick comparison.

 

[IamStryker]

I agree with the first part, I don't see how you could even think that was a possibility.

Calling it a fluke,.. is not silly.
It is for a fact, the definition of fluke. You have to remove yourself from the emotion of it, and look at it like a piece of Science. Leg checks happen all of the time in the UFC, there have only been 2 broken shins,.. EVER. That's a statistical fluke. Out of all of the leg checks Chris has ever done, he has broken one shin. That's a fluke.

Now when you talk about that front kick, you are talking about an offensive move. That changes the entire premise of the situation. However, even if we include this in the argument, you will see it is no fluke. There have actually been several front kick KO's now. The move itself isn't often done, but I would say the majority(over 50%) of the time that it actually lands, it results in a KO/TKO. This makes it no fluke. On the other hand, people land leg checks all of the time. Only 2 broken shins like this have happened in the UFC. So, many leg checks in the UFC are executed and landed, but only 2 results like this. That makes it a fluke occurrence.

This should really put an end to the front kick comparison.

You said absolutely nothing that changes my mind. For one your probably completely discounting everything Jack Slack said on the issue that I think is well written and makes a lot of sense. If that's the case then I'm not going to try to change your mind. I just think under those prime conditions in that fight a broken leg isn't going to be that uncommon. I invite anyone who disagrees to go through full power leg kicks and meet the bottom part of your leg on someones knee and see for yourself what its like.

The whole offensive defensive thing is completely silly. It makes no difference whatsoever which move is offensive or defensive. The point is that a front kick KO is also seriously rare and I don't recall it had even been done before in the UFC when Anderson pulled it off. So was he lucky? No what he did involved great skill/timing/and mistakes from his opponent. Exactly the same as the Weidman leg check. Neither one is simply "luck" and is therefore not a fluke or accident. They were just the best case scenarios.

You say that front kicks aren't done very often? Well neither are full power leg kicks into someones knee using that part of the leg.

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

You said absolutely nothing that changes my mind. For one your probably completely discounting everything Jack Slack said on the issue that I think is well written and makes a lot of sense. If that's the case then I'm not going to try to change your mind. I just think under those prime conditions in that fight a broken leg isn't going to be that uncommon. I invite anyone who disagrees to go through full power leg kicks and meet the bottom part of your leg on someones knee and see for yourself what its like.

The whole offensive defensive thing is completely silly. It makes no difference whatsoever which move is offensive or defensive. The point is that a front kick KO is also seriously rare and I don't recall it had even been done before in the UFC when Anderson pulled it off. So was he lucky? No what he did involved great skill/timing/and mistakes from his opponent. Exactly the same as the Weidman leg check. Neither one is simply "luck" and is therefore not a fluke or accident. They were just the best case scenarios.

You say that front kicks aren't done very often? Well neither are full power leg kicks into someones knee using that part of the leg.

Well, you don't have to change your mind. There is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to share my exact views, in order for me to accept you.

I am not discounting everything Jack said either. I am only not agreeing with his opinion on a few things and the way he dances around saying one thing or another. I completely don't agree with him saying it is not a fluke,.. because it is, for a fact,.. a fluke. The result is a fluke.

You think that under those prime conditions, that a broken leg would not be uncommon. I will agree with you here, BUT the same thing can be said for every fluke in history. When you start adding qualifiers to this, you can custom make your argument. All flukes happen because of conditions. If the conditions were always like that, they wouldn't be flukes.

The offensive/defensive thing is NOT silly.
When you are talking about intent, it means almost everything. Your intent with an offensive move, is to do offense. When you are doing offense, you are expecting KOs and MAJOR damage. Defensive is trying to protect yourself. So the intent changes based on what you are doing.

Full power leg kicks are done all of the time.
People check kicks, all of the time. You can't sit here and twist the front kicks, with the leg checks. I proved my point on that. They are not comparable. You take the amount of times they are performed and landed and the amount of times it results in a KO/TKO. The majority of the time, they result in a KO/TKO. Leg checks are landed all of the time and only 2 have resulted in a broken shin. That makes it a fluke.

I think I proved my points to you the first time around and you just don't want to accept them. That's fine, you don't have to accept it.

 

[Lionkill]

That fact that he shows BOTH gifs of Chris checking the kicks, proves that the end result of the fight was, in fact a "fluke".

The point where the legs meet is random and you can't really plan for it.
You are hardly even thinking about it. You are just trying to check properly and counter.

Chris got lucky and the legs met in his favor.

Did he intend to break Silva's leg? NO.

His intention was to block the kick, take as little damage as possible and counter. You can even see his "oh shit" face when the kick is launched.

Is the win legitimate?
ABSOLUTELY.

This should put fighters on notice about low kicks and proper checking technique.

Great post.

 

[wilddeuces]

Yeah great article and all, but it misses one important thing. Silva refused to turn his hips and his shin landed at a glancing angle, this contributing to (though not solely responsible for) the leg break. Similarly, if you throw a sloppy hook punch and turn your wrist on the heavy bag (or a face) you will cause damage to your hand/wrist because it does not land at the appropriate angle and transfer the force properly.

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

Great post.

I think the way I worded "Chris got lucky" was wrong.

I was trying to imply that the leg breaking and the way it took place was a fluke. I don't really want people connecting that statement to his win. I honestly think it was a legit win and the guy is a great fighter.

 

[IamStryker]

I completely don't agree with him saying it is not a fluke,.. because it is, for a fact,.. a fluke. The result is a fluke.

If it was a fact then you wouldn't have to argue with people about it. All you have is your opinion which is hardly convincing to me.

You think that under those prime conditions, that a broken leg would not be uncommon. I will agree with you here, BUT the same thing can be said for every fluke in history. When you start adding qualifiers to this, you can custom make your argument. All flukes happen because of conditions. If the conditions were always like that, they wouldn't be flukes.

So if its not uncommon under those conditions then why is it something so unbelievable that your calling it a fluke and Weidman got lucky? That makes no sense whatsoever. The conditions were met by the fighters and your acting like a light fell from the ceiling and hit Silva in the head. THAT would be a fluke and make Weidman lucky. There is some measure of luck in every MMA fight so why are you people trying to take something away from Weidman. He beat Silva fair and square in both fights. Calling it a fluke is pretty douchey.

The offensive/defensive thing is NOT silly.
When you are talking about intent, it means almost everything. Your intent with an offensive move, is to do offense. When you are doing offense, you are expecting KOs and MAJOR damage. Defensive is trying to protect yourself. So the intent changes based on what you are doing.

And since Weidman INTENDED to do damage by checking the leg (which is common) then there is no difference whatsoever. Hence it is silly that your bringing it up.

Full power leg kicks are done all of the time.
People check kicks, all of the time. You can't sit here and twist the front kicks, with the leg checks. I proved my point on that. They are not comparable. You take the amount of times they are performed and landed and the amount of times it results in a KO/TKO. The majority of the time, they result in a KO/TKO. Leg checks are landed all of the time and only 2 have resulted in a broken shin. That makes it a fluke.

I disagree that those exact conditions are repeated regularly which is basically what you are saying. Anderson assisted in breaking his own leg by throwing a wild full power kick and Weidman did perfectly in checking it with his knee. That is not that common and I will gladly take Jack Slacks opinion over yours.

I think I proved my points to you the first time around and you just don't want to accept them. That's fine, you don't have to accept it.

You haven't proved anything. You don't give facts at all just opinions and then cry that no one believes you.

 

[IamStryker]

I was trying to imply that the leg breaking and the way it took place was a fluke. I don't really want people connecting that statement to his win. I honestly think it was a legit win and the guy is a great fighter.

Calling the leg break a fluke and then saying it was a legit win is an oxymoron. Pick one and stick with it.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Calling the leg break a fluke and then saying it was a legit win is an oxymoron. Pick one and stick with it.

Any win, within the rules, is legit.
Flukes happen within the rules.
A TKO to injury is a legit win.
A fluke win by TKO is a legit win.

 

[maniacmatt1782]

The difference is, that KO on Munoz was perfect.
His intention was to KO him and he set it up perfectly.


I can reconstruct a car accident,.. tell you all of the intricacies of what each driver was doing, down to the angle of their wrist and the steering technique they used, how they use that technique every day.

It is still an accident.

Most people don't intend to crash their car. Weidman intended to check the kick snd hurt silva's leg. It broke, that doesn't always happen but inflicting damage was the intent. Just like punching someone in the jaw. You intend to do damage, but the Jaw doesn't always break. Once in a while it does. is Hunts breaking of Struve's jaw a fluke and an accident as well?

 

[IamStryker]

Any win, within the rules, is legit.
Flukes happen within the rules.
A TKO to injury is a legit win.
A fluke win by TKO is a legit win.

He is trying to take credit for saying that Weidman won legitimately. I don't think he meant that Weidman won in the bounds of the rules. He was trying to give Weidman credit for winning the fight and at the same time take it away by calling the leg break a fluke. That does not make sense.

People who say Weidman won by fluke are typically saying that Weidman didn't really do anything to win and just got "lucky"

Edit: Some of the people calling it a fluke are also calling the first fight a fluke which reveals their rampant fanboyism.

 

[Orni]

That fact that he shows BOTH gifs of Chris checking the kicks, proves that the end result of the fight was, in fact a "fluke".

The point where the legs meet is random and you can't really plan for it.
You are hardly even thinking about it. You are just trying to check properly and counter.

Chris got lucky and the legs met in his favor.

Did he intend to break Silva's leg? NO.

His intention was to block the kick, take as little damage as possible and counter. You can even see his "oh shit" face when the kick is launched.

Is the win legitimate?
ABSOLUTELY.

This should put fighters on notice about low kicks and proper checking technique.

Freak Injury?

"Some are claiming that Silva's injury was a freak injury. In truth, the snapping of the shin bone in that manner was a rare injury, but when a fighter runs full power into a kick which connects on the opponent's knee, it's not uncommon.

Within that scenario, it is a very common outcome that the shin will be injured to some degree. Whether the fighter can fight on it or not, he will not want to kick again too soon, and that is the purpose of checking with the top of the shin and knee.

How come we don't see so many of them? The event of a hard low kick into a knee is not that common. Good fighters set up their low kicks; most MMA fighters don't even check low kicks. In kickboxing, most fighters are smart enough to set up their attacks because they are used to having to work around an opponent who is willing to check."

I actually posted about this myself in another thread but Jack Slack worded it so well i might aswell just copy and paste. There was no fluke, it's uncommon yes but there was a high chance Silva would have injured his leg to some extent on that kick.

Silva was too predictable and Weidman read him properly and reacted accordingly, and voila. Stop trying to discredit Weidmans win like he didn't beat up Silva both fights, Weidman was the better fighter, end of story.

Silva even got a gifted instant rematch, wich is more than most fighters losing get, and he got destroyed again.

ALSO your argument is invalid because the first kick was an outside leg kick, the 2nd an inside leg kick, considering Weidmans relatively wide stance (compared to a standard muay thai stance). This contributed to the success of the 2nd block, but mostly you can fail and you can succeed at checking a kick, not all checks are as good (just as not all leg kicks are as good or the same.)

 

[kflo]

Seems like a wild theory to think that he was setting it up and intended for it to break.

However calling it a fluke is just as silly. Doing something well and getting the best result isn't a fluke. Its no more a fluke than Andersons front kick to Vitors face.

that's just fuckin absurd.

 

[kflo]

Most people don't intend to crash their car. Weidman intended to check the kick snd hurt silva's leg. It broke, that doesn't always happen but inflicting damage was the intent. Just like punching someone in the jaw. You intend to do damage, but the Jaw doesn't always break. Once in a while it does. is Hunts breaking of Struve's jaw a fluke and an accident as well?

it's alot more similar to blocking a punch with your elbows or the top of your head than punching someone in the jaw.

 

[kflo]

Freak Injury?

"Some are claiming that Silva's injury was a freak injury. In truth, the snapping of the shin bone in that manner was a rare injury, but when a fighter runs full power into a kick which connects on the opponent's knee, it's not uncommon.

Within that scenario, it is a very common outcome that the shin will be injured to some degree. Whether the fighter can fight on it or not, he will not want to kick again too soon, and that is the purpose of checking with the top of the shin and knee.

How come we don't see so many of them? The event of a hard low kick into a knee is not that common. Good fighters set up their low kicks; most MMA fighters don't even check low kicks. In kickboxing, most fighters are smart enough to set up their attacks because they are used to having to work around an opponent who is willing to check."

I actually posted about this myself in another thread but Jack Slack worded it so well i might aswell just copy and paste. There was no fluke, it's uncommon yes but there was a high chance Silva would have injured his leg to some extent on that kick.

Silva was too predictable and Weidman read him properly and reacted accordingly, and voila. Stop trying to discredit Weidmans win like he didn't beat up Silva both fights, Weidman was the better fighter, end of story.

Silva even got a gifted instant rematch, wich is more than most fighters losing get, and he got destroyed again.

ALSO your argument is invalid because the first kick was an outside leg kick, the 2nd an inside leg kick, considering Weidmans relatively wide stance (compared to a standard muay thai stance). This contributed to the success of the 2nd block, but mostly you can fail and you can succeed at checking a kick, not all checks are as good (just as not all leg kicks are as good or the same.)

they both threw kicks, they both had kicks blocked. the fact is weidman read the middle kick better than he read the last kick. weidman was trying to protect himself. everything about his movements on the last kick were defensive and reactive. again, he checked the kick, reacted better through training than he did in the first fight on the low kicks. but it wasn't some planned attack. it was preventative. it lead to a freak injury. he wins.

 

[IamStryker]

that's just fuckin absurd.

How is it absurd? Calling it a lucky fluke is absurd. The lottery isn't involved here its an MMA fight. There were a lot of factors involved besides luck. So calling it a lucky fluke is incredibly retarded.

Also if you want to disagree with me then try giving an argument.

 

[IamStryker]

it was preventative. it lead to a freak injury. he wins.

Here your trying to insinuate that Weidman was only protecting himself. As if he didn't train to use his knee and as if he didn't know that he could hurt Anderson with that check.

 

[kflo]

Here your trying to insinuate that Weidman was only protecting himself. As if he didn't train to use his knee and as if he didn't know that he could hurt Anderson with that check.

he trained to check kicks. he was actually a little late in his reaction and was still reacting to the kick raising his leg as the kick lands. his anticipation was better on the other kick and he blocked it much lower.

he trained to check kicks. not break legs. he didn't intentionally place the leg exactly where he wanted. he reacted and checked a kick.

 

[aztecas91]

bloodyelbow did a similar article to this. also remember knee spike doesn't mean block the kick with your knee cap, your sopose to use the upper shin.

 

[flanellograf]

How is it absurd? Calling it a lucky fluke is absurd. The lottery isn't involved here its an MMA fight. There were a lot of factors involved besides luck. So calling it a lucky fluke is incredibly retarded.

Also if you want to disagree with me then try giving an argument.

You are arguing against a value judgement that he wasn't making.
A fluke is lucky/unlucky per definition . There is an element of chance to every action in a fight. Even if you were to hit a stationary target you wouldn't hit the target exactly the same way each time, and much less so if you are striking a defending and moving target that is also trying to strike you.
To break a leg is simply a very rare occurrence, thus it is a fluke.
That does not mean Weidman deserves zero credit.