Jack Della Lost the Fight When He Jumped D'Arce

[whocares]

Ngl I totally and utterly must have missed visible pain at the end, from what a 10-15 second loose attempt at an arm in triangle choke whilst still punching Hafez in the side of the head?

Sorry he wasn't wincing at the end, it was like 1 minute left. But Jack wasn't doing anything from his back but trying to defend, and Hafez wasn't scoring any gnp but he was pushing to advance position. I think the real point though is that JDM didn't actually win the round on his feet. They both landed shots, both landed some heavy. Besides the one flurry of really nice scoring punches and knee to the body by JDM, I'd say the round was pretty easily for Hafez.

However one caveat now is I've watched it 3 times which I think is bullshit. The judges get one view, and any additional view shouldn't count so to truly be fair to the scoring system you have to go off your first view, which admittedly seemed a hell of a lot closer than the rewatches did.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Sorry he wasn't wincing at the end, it was like 1 minute left. But Jack wasn't doing anything from his back but trying to defend, and Hafez wasn't scoring any gnp but he was pushing to advance position. I think the real point though is that JDM didn't actually win the round on his feet. They both landed shots, both landed some heavy. Besides the one flurry of really nice scoring punches and knee to the body by JDM, I'd say the round was pretty easily for Hafez.

However one caveat now is I've watched it 3 times which I think is bullshit. The judges get one view, and any additional view shouldn't count so to truly be fair to the scoring system you have to go off your first view, which admittedly seemed a hell of a lot closer than the rewatches did.

Yeah, I had to rewatch it too, on rewatch i definitely had it for Hafez - which is in line with my original thought - but like you say, 'one view'.

 

[Anewt]

Yup.

I genuinely think everyone should rewatch.

JDM landed around 7 good body shots.

He ate a couple of punches on the feet, and threw away an entire half round, where Hafez fished for an arm triangle and JDM looked like he didn't know what he was doing.

JDM fought like shit, and realistically he threw away the fight.

So fishing for a arm triangle is attempted a sub and worth adding to the round / judging?

So all of jack's silly guillotines should be scored then? Considering all that happened most times was losing position?

I'm glad to see damage rewarded over maintaining position personally.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

If it was one fc rules jack clearly won, but it’s not so it was clearly a draw

 

[maximus__]

Mate, it's MMA.

Ain't nobody applying the rules that hard.

I take your point, but we're judging this as most fights get judged.

Haha so your argument is JDM caused more damage, wins under the scoring criteria, but the judges usually screw it so his opponent wins by landing a single sub attempt whilst getting out struck?
0/15 takedowns and 3 mins of ground control doesnt win the last 2 rounds compared to him more than doubling the sig strike total in both rounds and landing 100 total strikes to 30 ovr the last 10.

Round 2 alone is double the strikes with the only reason they go to ground being a sub attempt from JDM.

You are wrong.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Mate, it's MMA.

Ain't nobody applying the rules that hard.

I take your point, but we're judging this as most fights get judged.

JDM won that second round, and in turn, the fight, which he was correctly awarded.

 

[maximus__]

We have to at least pretend to amalgamate what goes on.

Time and again we see someone get grapple-fucked, and nobody complains if it's the guy that's expected to win.

That's my point.

JDM was expected to punch hard, so when he punched hard, it got overvalued.

Because punching hard scores more than holding someone in side control or half guard under every ruleset ever in MMA...
If you punch hard WHILST holding that position you should win the round. If you get punched hard and then hold that position, you lose the fight.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Haha so your argument is JDM caused more damage, wins under the scoring criteria, but the judges usually screw it so his opponent wins by landing a single sub attempt whilst getting out struck?
0/15 takedowns and 3 mins of ground control doesnt win the last 2 rounds compared to him more than doubling the sig strike total in both rounds and landing 100 total strikes to 30 ovr the last 10.

Round 2 alone is double the strikes with the only reason they go to ground being a sub attempt from JDM.

You are wrong.

Not much of that is actually true.

First 60-90 seconds went to Hafez, on the feet, he landed the bigger, better punches.

90-120 seconds went to JDM, via body shots, pretty significantly.

120-300 seconds all went to Hafez due to JDM's mistake, also pretty significantly.

You're scoring an entire round on a flurry of body shots that didn't actually end the fight, but you felt they might have.

This is the same as scoring a round for a guy who locks up a guilly with 10 seconds to go, and the other fighter was "DEFINITELY" saved by the bell.

Only Hafez wasn't saved by any bell. He just carried on and won the round.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Because punching hard scores more than holding someone in side control or half guard under every ruleset ever in MMA...
If you punch hard WHILST holding that position you should win the round. If you get punched hard and then hold that position, you lose the fight.

So your argument is, punch someone, immediately pull guard, and win the round via defence?

No, you're not arguing that, because that's patently nonsense.

JDM accidentally pulling guard doesn't make it better.

 

[Anewt]

I agree. I was shocked when I saw JDM win. While I can understand it being a split decision, Hafez won the first round 10-8. It was a dominant first round. Not even close. 2nd round was still close, but Hafez edged him out 10-9. Third round was clearly JDM as Hafez was gassed out and was holding on for dear life so either 10-9 JDM or a really weak argument for a 10-8.

Hafez was robbed.

What in the?

How the hell do you think the first round was a 10-8 to Hafez

Yet think the 3rd is a weaker argument for jdm to get a 10-8?

 

[maximus__]

Not much of that is actually true.

First 60-90 seconds went to Hafez, on the feet, he landed the bigger, better punches.

90-120 seconds went to JDM, via body shots, pretty significantly.

120-300 seconds all went to Hafez due to JDM's mistake, also pretty significantly.

You're scoring an entire round on a flurry of body shots that didn't actually end the fight, but you felt they might have.

This is the same as scoring a round for a guy who locks up a guilly with 10 seconds to go, and the other fighter was "DEFINITELY" saved by the bell.

Only Hafez wasn't saved by any bell. He just carried on and won the round.

No you decided that Hafez won the first 120 seconds of the round. I said that JDM outstruck him by double the sig strikes and was causing much more damage or impact which is the highest scoring criteria. Nothing in the rules say you score the round by portions. Hafez landed 16 sig strikes in round 2, JDM landed 27 AND had Haefez backing up. That is impact and scores higher than control. Those bodyshots had Hafez visibly retreating across the cage and panic shooting with him going 0/6 from his poorly timed takedowns. The only reason he was in that round was JDM and he didn't do enough over 2 mins to cancel out the earlier striking exchanges. If he landed anything meaningful sure, but he just held the position and didn't do enough to steal the round. 10-9 JDM every day of the week in all MMA rulesets.

Hafez nearly lost a point in round 3. He literally just held on and survived for round 3 and landed absolutely nothing.
Hell there is an argument for a 10-8 in round 3 for JDM which is more justified than round 2 going the other way.

 

[rorschach51]

I honestly wouldn't have been shocked or felt it was a bad decision if Hafez got the nod. It was that up in the air, and it all comes down to JDM's fight IQ for me. I even mentioned in the PBP despite the damage he was doing if he spammed anymore guillotine attempts/giving up position he was gonna lose this fight, and he almost did anyway. He needs to get his in battle decision making sorted asap or he's not gonna have much higher of a ceiling then maybe a top 8-10 fighter. Whether that means ingraining in himself to listen and follow every word his corner says during the fight Idk. But that's gonna be hard to do in a arena with 20k people screaming.

 

[MMAFanCal]

What in the?

How the hell do you think the first round was a 10-8 to Hafez

Yet think the 3rd is a weaker argument for jdm to get a 10-8?

The way I saw it, the first round was a dominant 10-8 for Hafez. Hafez got the takedown early and pretty much controlled the whole round.

 

[sdpdude9]

Now I know stats aren’t everything but some food for thought.

JDM landed near 70% more significant strikes and 62% more total strikes in round two. All of this was in the first 3ish minutes of the round as neither registered a strike on the ground. JDM also visibly had Hafez hurt with body shots.

So the question is, does near half a round of top control without any significant offense achieved negate being outstruck by such a margin and having the most significant, closest to ending the fight moment of the round?

 

[maximus__]

So your argument is, punch someone, immediately pull guard, and win the round via defence?

No, you're not arguing that, because that's patently nonsense.

JDM accidentally pulling guard doesn't make it better.

Come on mate. That's our favourite poster in the war rooms strategy right there....
I am arguing that the person who is doing the most damage and hurting his opponent is the person winning the fight under the MMA scoring criteria because that is what the rules say.

It doesn't matter if it standing, on the ground or against the cage. Whoever is actually hurting his opponent with meanigful offence wins the fight. It's the same reason I don't think JDM should win on sub attempts even though he nearly tried more subs than his opponent landed sig strikes across the final 10 mins of that round. No submissions were close at any point for either fighter.

If it was a wrestling match, he got a win by pin, but it's MMA so it goes to the offensive fighter who was damaging and causing his opponent to react to his offensive attacks. Control only scores IF all other things are equal. It's in the rules...

 

[Deleted member 585708]

No you decided that Hafez won the first 120 seconds of the round. I said that JDM outstruck him by double the sig strikes and was causing much more damage or impact which is the highest scoring criteria. Nothing in the rules say you score the round by portions. Hafez landed 16 sig strikes in round 2, JDM landed 27 AND had Haefez backing up. That is impact and scores higher than control. Those bodyshots had Hafez visibly retreating across the cage and panic shooting with him going 0/6 from his poorly timed takedowns. The only reason he was in that round was JDM and he didn't do enough over 2 mins to cancel out the earlier striking exchanges. If he landed anything meaningful sure, but he just held the position and didn't do enough to steal the round. 10-9 JDM every day of the week in all MMA rulesets.

Hafez nearly lost a point in round 3. He literally just held on and survived for round 3 and landed absolutely nothing.
Hell there is an argument for a 10-8 in round 3 for JDM which is more justified than round 2 going the other way.

I feel like you're looking at UFC Stats and deciding what happened.

I didn't say Hafez won the first 120 seconds, I said he won the first 90 seconds.

Some of what you say is true, Hafez definitely panic-wrestled, but he won the VAST majority of that round, and not just the on-the-ground portion.

He won a significant portion of the fight on the feet, too.

JDM absolutely did not win the early portion of that round, he lost it. He won the mid-portion.

 

[maximus__]

Now I know stats aren’t everything but some food for thought.

JDM landed near 70% more significant strikes and 62% more total strikes in round two. All of this was in the first 3ish minutes of the round as neither registered a strike on the ground. JDM also visibly had Hafez hurt with body shots.

So the question is, does near half a round of top control without any significant offense achieved negate being outstruck by such a margin and having the most significant, closest to ending the fight moment of the round?

No. It's specifically mentioned in the scoring criteria it doesn't.

 

[maximus__]

I feel like you're looking at UFC Stats and deciding what happened.

I didn't say Hafez won the first 120 seconds, I said he won the first 90 seconds.

Some of what you say is true, Hafez definitely panic-wrestled, but he won the VAST majority of that round, and not just the on-the-ground portion.

He won a significant portion of the fight on the feet, too.

JDM absolutely did not win the early portion of that round, he lost it. He won the mid-portion.

No I am using the stats to support my argument.

It does not say that the person who wins ost of the round is the winner. It specifically addresses this type of fight in the scoring criteria. It does not matter what portion anybody won of the round. All that matters is JDM landed 27 sig strikes and hurt his opponent with those strikes. If Hafez had landed a 10 strike ground and pound blitz in his 2 mins of control time on the ground, equal to those flurrys from JDM on the feet ,he wins. Instead he controlled top position and ended the round in a good spot. Great job bringing back the momentum but 10-9 JDM.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

No I am using the stats to support my argument.

It does not say that the person who wins ost of the round is the winner. It specifically addresses this type of fight in the scoring criteria. It does not matter what portion anybody won of the round. All that matters is JDM landed 27 sig strikes and hurt his opponent with those strikes. If Hafez had landed a 10 strike ground and pound blitz in his 2 mins of control time on the ground, equal to those flurrys from JDM on the feet ,he wins. Instead he controlled top position and ended the round in a good spot. Great job bringing back the momentum but 10-9 JDM.

It doesn't matter that much, because you've got somebody compiling those stats. They aren't facts.

UFC stats will sometimes tell you a razor close decision wasn't close at all due to 'numbers'.

You've got to apply the eye test, still, and always.

 

[maximus__]

It doesn't matter that much, because you've got somebody compiling those stats. They aren't facts.

UFC stats will sometimes tell you a razor close decision wasn't close at all due to 'numbers'.

You've got to apply the eye test, still, and always.

No. You need to apply the scoring criteria and judge the fight from that.
Damage or impact is the highest scoring criteria with acute impact being scored higher than immediate.
Only one person in that fight actually caused any damage in round 2 and 3. JDM clearly lost round 1 because his offence wasn't enough to offset 3 takedowns and near even striking.

If we only had control and no stand up striking I agree. Or if there was some actual fight ending offence on the ground.
Good effort but 29-28 JDM was the right call.