Izzy mocked Alex’s sons…

[A-Level Wrestler]

Lol a kid crying is not the end of the world. Tears come with lessons. The kid learned a lesson, ultimately it's a good thing. Would I have done it? Probably not. I wouldve corrected my kid and not have reposted the video of the him mocking Izzy in the first place like Alex did. Alex made his kid part of the circus, so this just comes with it.

No it's not the end of the World, nothing in this situation is the end of the World.

Tears can come with a lesson, but they didn't here.

All the kid was taught by Izzy was that 'might is right', not that there is a reason to carry yourself with class in the World.

Why would the kid regret doing what he did to Izzy now that Izzy did it back to him? Because it felt bad when he experienced it? That's a selfish motivation, as opposed to Izzy teaching him that what he did was classless leading by example, and the kid seeing Izzy is a good guy who didn't do it back, therefore feeling bad about what he originally did to Izzy.

Going tit-for-tat simply creates a bitterness, not a lesson.

 

[mudrubble]

I'm also all for teaching little ones why their behaviour is wrong, but as I said I believe in leading by example as opposed to scooping to their level (mirroring).

When people do wrong things, doing wrong things back only goes to show that what they did wasn't fundamentally wrong, but just that they lost.

If a kid half my size punches me, punching him back and knocking him out is only going to prove he lost because I'm stronger, not that what he did was wrong.

To teach morality to the kid, I would hold him in place (proof that I could physically beat him up), then not do it, in order to show that what he did was wrong.

Adesanya was in the position where he had the upper hand, and could've shown how you should conduct yourself as a man, but chose to mirror an immature and classless act.

This poor kid has no good role models in this situation, neither Pereira or Adesanya. It's a small example of why the World is becoming such a disturbed and toxic place in recent years, men have no worthwhile role models.

I don't think it's Izzy's job to teach morality and ethics to the boy - that's Alex's job. The kid has a father.

Izzy's job, as a member of society who was mocked by the kid is to model consequences - and he did that well.

And you.... you're watching pro fighting and hoping it is the place you'll see role models so positive that it reverses the pull of the tide in the world that you call toxic? It's up to pro-fighters to reverse this trend, one kid at a time?

Brother, I flatly disagree. Izzy only needed to model consequences to the kid and he did that. He's not the kid's father or loved one. He owes him nothing more. And he did it playfully and without any anger. They saw each other backstage after that and gave congratulations. The kid saw that Izzy respected his father and I'm SURE Izzy said something to the kid. We don't need to police this, judge it, sentence it - we are just bystanders seeing 10% of the interaction between them. We can't comment on what we don't know. But they talked backstage and I'm sure the kid understands better that a glass house is an unsafe place from which to throw stones and that neither his father nor Izzy are evil or ill-intended towards each other.

 

[A-Level Wrestler]

But you are really not. All you are doing is playing contrarian to everything I post. Me and countless others have put this issue to bed, and we just cringe when you respond with such self-regard...you are not showing much maturity here, maybe should be looking in the mirror instead of criticizing MMA fighters you don't like. I will give you the last word...as it is so apparent that's what you want here.

I have my opinion on the matter and am entitled to it. Having an opinion and defending it with logic and reason is not being 'contrarian', it's showing presence of mind.

If this was a few hundred years ago and I said the World was round not flat, countless others would also disagree and 'put this issue to bed', then cringe if I upheld my view. So what?

Just because a majority of people hold one opinion, does not make it right, and it also does not make it immature to disagree with the majority.

 

[mudrubble]

No it's not the end of the World, nothing in this situation is the end of the World.

Tears can come with a lesson, but they didn't here.

All the kid was taught by Izzy was that 'might is right', not that there is a reason to carry yourself with class in the World.

Why would the kid regret doing what he did to Izzy now that Izzy did it back to him? Because it felt bad when he experienced it? That's a selfish motivation, as opposed to Izzy teaching him that what he did was classless leading by example, and the kid seeing Izzy is a good guy who didn't do it back, therefore feeling bad about what he originally did to Izzy.

Going tit-for-tat simply creates a bitterness, not a lesson.

You are taking your very limited goggles and putting them on the world. You don't know the kid or what he learned. You're speaking in absolutes about what he learned?? How can you possibly know and how do you not recognize that you're talking out your ass about your own emotions and not about this kid or Izzy?

 

[LouisBolanos]

Going tit-for-tat simply creates a bitterness, not a lesson.

Nope, tit-for-tat taught WW2 Japan and Germany pretty damn well, it taught the Brits pretty well in the 1770s, I could go on and on.

 

[A-Level Wrestler]

Nope, you don't teach lessons to a classless kid by showing classy behavior that will 100% get ignored, you teach him lessons using language and behavior he understands, which is exactly what Izzy did because Ah Lex was apparently too busy doing his archer pose than actually raising his kids.

If the kid lacks humanity yes it will get ignored, but if he lacks humanity going tit-for-tat will just make him bitter, not understanding he was wrong.

If the kid has humanity, showing class would touch him and help him understand and inspire him to be a better man. Going tit-for-tat just makes one think he was right to mock Izzy in the first place, as Izzy has shown himself to be somebody not worthy of respect with this act.

I agree Alex is also at fault here by not teaching his kid a lesson like he should've.

 

[xn7]

ballllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[A-Level Wrestler]

I don't think it's Izzy's job to teach morality and ethics to the boy - that's Alex's job. The kid has a father.

Izzy's job, as a member of society who was mocked by the kid is to model consequences - and he did that well.

And you.... you're watching pro fighting and hoping it is the place you'll see role models so positive that it reverses the pull of the tide in the world that you call toxic? It's up to pro-fighters to reverse this trend, one kid at a time?

Brother, I flatly disagree. Izzy only needed to model consequences to the kid and he did that. He's not the kid's father or loved one. He owes him nothing more. And he did it playfully and without any anger. They saw each other backstage after that and gave congratulations. The kid saw that Izzy respected his father and I'm SURE Izzy said something to the kid. We don't need to police this, judge it, sentence it - we are just bystanders seeing 10% of the interaction between them. We can't comment on what we don't know. But they talked backstage and I'm sure the kid understands better that a glass house is an unsafe place from which to throw stones and that neither his father nor Izzy are evil or ill-intended towards each other.

To be respected as man, Izzy has to conduct himself as one. Behaving immature as a kid means he has 0 respect from me.

The fact that being mature teaches people morals and ethics is incidental, Izzy doesn't owe anybody a duty in doing so. But if he wants my respect, he needs to handle himself maturely, if he doesn't he doesn't have my (or many others) respect.

I never said we need to police this, Izzy is free to celebrate as he wishes, but there are inevitable social consequences to doing what he did.

 

[A-Level Wrestler]

You are taking your very limited goggles and putting them on the world. You don't know the kid or what he learned. You're speaking in absolutes about what he learned?? How can you possibly know and how do you not recognize that you're talking out your ass about your own emotions and not about this kid or Izzy?

You're right I don't know the kid or what he learned, which is why I laid out different options of what would happen depending on what kind of person the kid is.

That's not talking out my ass, it's talking in hypotheticals to account for different possibilities.

 

[LouisBolanos]

If the kid lacks humanity yes it will get ignored, but if he lacks humanity going tit-for-tat will just make him bitter, not understanding he was wrong.

WW2 Germany and Japan would like to have a word with you. Tit-for-tat works and works very well.

 

[mudrubble]

You're right I don't know the kid or what he learned, which is why I laid out different options of what would happen depending on what kind of person the kid is.

That's not talking out my ass, it's talking in hypotheticals to account for different possibilities.

I respect that you can acknowledge that you don't know what the kid learned. That's a great step for you. Kudos.

 

[A-Level Wrestler]

Nope, tit-for-tat taught WW2 Japan and Germany pretty damn well, it taught the Brits pretty well in the 1770s, I could go on and on.

A country doesn't have an individual personality, it has a bottom line material self-interest.

What we have been talking about here is the dynamic between a grown man, and a child who is still maturing and (potentially) has room for character growth. A sovereign country is not a child who needs to be taught life lessons.

 

[mudrubble]

To be respected as man, Izzy has to conduct himself as one. Behaving immature as a kid means he has 0 respect from me.

The fact that being mature teaches people morals and ethics is incidental, Izzy doesn't owe anybody a duty in doing so. But if he wants my respect, he needs to handle himself maturely, if he doesn't he doesn't have my (or many others) respect.

I never said we need to police this, Izzy is free to celebrate as he wishes, but there are inevitable social consequences to doing what he did.

Ah, I thought you were saying what he did was wrong. I feel like you said that. Well you DID say that.

Now you're walking it back to what he did won't earn YOUR respect. That is VERY different than "wrong".

Luckily, Izzy doesn't know you exist and isn't vying for your respect then. I'm sure some other ppl he is unaware of also don't respect him.

BUT, compare that to ALLLLLLL the respect he WON this weekend. Then do the math. Izzy just earned a ton of respect, when it's all said and done. Yours just won't be among that motherload.

Fair enough.

 

[A-Level Wrestler]

I respect that you can acknowledge that you don't know what the kid learned. That's a great step for you. Kudos.

I respect the fact you respect my acknowledgement, as I also believe you should. It's also a great step for you to show this respect.

 

[A-Level Wrestler]

Ah, I thought you were saying what he did was wrong. I feel like you said that. Well you DID say that.

Now you're walking it back to what he did won't earn YOUR respect. That is VERY different than "wrong".

Luckily, Izzy doesn't know you exist and isn't vying for your respect then. I'm sure some other ppl he is unaware of also don't respect him.

BUT, compare that to ALLLLLLL the respect he WON this weekend. Then do the math. Izzy just earned a ton of respect, when it's all said and done. Yours just won't be among that motherload.

Fair enough.

What he did is wrong, but he is still free to do that. Class shouldn't be legally enforced.

It's not one or the other, he also loses respect too.

 

[mudrubble]

A country doesn't have an individual personality, it has a bottom line material self-interest.

What we have been talking about here is the dynamic between a grown man, and a child who is still maturing and (potentially) has room for character growth. A sovereign country is not a child who needs to be taught life lessons.

Why the fuck is this one child so damned sacred??

Is he the next coming of Buddha? Jesus? Why should the whole world learn tough lessons but this one kid be handled with only kid gloves?

What makes this one child so worthy of the utmost care, in your mind? Have you seen how the world treats children???

Why single out this relatively benign and unimportant incident in your crusade for better dynamics between adults and children? It seems like an insane place to start.

 

[mudrubble]

What he did is wrong, but he is still free to do that. Class shouldn't be legally enforced.

It's not one or the other, he also loses respect too.

He gained a TON more respect on Saturday than he lost.

So, on balance, it actually IS one or the other - the respect level for him just increased this weekend.

 

[A-Level Wrestler]

Why the fuck is this one child so damned sacred??

Is he the next coming of Buddha? Jesus? Why should the whole world learn tough lessons but this one kid be handled with only kid gloves?

What makes this one child so worthy of the utmost care, in your mind? Have you seen how the world treats children???

Why single out this relatively benign and unimportant incident in your crusade for better dynamics between adults and children? It seems like an insane place to start.

This one child? Why presume if this happened to another child I wouldn't say anything?

That is an incorrect presumption you've just made.

And I believe all children are worthy of care. Just because others don't do it, doesn't mean it's right.

Countless genocides have happened in the World, that doesn't automatically make it right, it's an odd logic you're using there.

 

[LouisBolanos]

A country doesn't have an individual personality

Yes they do. Countries have multi-faceted yet distinct personalities just like individuals because at the end of the day countries are a collection of individuals

it has a bottom line material self-interest.

Same as any individual

What we have been talking about here is the dynamic between a grown man, and a child who is still maturing and (potentially) has room for character growth.

Grown man: US
Child who is still maturing and has room for character growth: WW2 Japan

A sovereign country is not a child who needs to be taught life lessons.

You're wrong, WW2 taught Japan and Germany plenty of life lessons as sovereign nations

 

[mudrubble]

I respect the fact you respect my acknowledgement, as I also believe you should. It's also a great step for you to show this respect.

That's part of your problem. You have beliefs about how others "should" view or respond to your arguments. You morally pontificate here like it's your church.