I've always wondered how panantukan/pencak silat/kuntao has managed to continuously evade the bullshido investigators

PH is a big country and not the most well educated. This is a country that has incredible boxing gyms but people still doing some weird voodoo ish.

It's also highly decentralized in general, villages and the like that are isolated tend to develop some unique beliefs to say the least, which can extend to martial arts. To be frank, when people think of martial arts in PH they still think of kung fu stuff, and generally speaking it's like that in most of the world.
 
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Here's some more silat BS for you. Guy ran a gym a very long time ago, teaching boxing, Muay Thai, MMA, Kickboxing, savate, BJJ, basically everything, although his primary skills and background are JKD, escrima and silat. If I remember correctly he was Bruce Lee's daughters long time boyfriend and trained under Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto. Great stuff back in the hay day of American martial arts, but as we can see here, IMO the majority of these moves, techniques, are not practical.


I trained Muay Thai under this guy for like 6 months 20 plus years ago is this was the state of Muay Thai in America 20 years ago and the only people available "teaching it". Dude can't even kick correctly, it really was the blind leading the blind.
 
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TheMaster said:
These are both extremely dumb takes, filled with self serving conceit typical of people who only train MMA. So dry humping in spandex on a mat or gloved swinging in a ring became the standard for whats real in all martial arts? Really?

Yes, we know about kickboxing with sparring. We know about grappling. This is all well and good and effective within its domain. It doesn't qualify you to form an opinion though about realistic martial arts training with weapons. And Filipino Martial Arts are primarily about weapons, used and trained to this day by civilians, police and military there and in many parts of the world.

You fight these guys with a knife which they commonly carry in Filipines, even if you got one yourself, you will end up cut to ribbons and skinned and disposed of. Simple.

Your arguments are equivalent to "why don't I challenge Mike Tyson to a game of footsie. You see, he got no skills its all bs".

These guys will straight up kill you for disrespecting them and their arts, which is why there aint no "Mcdojo police" visiting like they do for Mall Karate.
I await the hurt ego tool responses, which are irrelevant.


This is Rafael Kayanan, a Kali instructor who choreographed the fight scenes in the epic move The Hunted.

View attachment 1051639

Sayoc Kali – A Historical Reference

Sayoc Kali - The official historical reference and timeline of the Founder and Creator of Sayoc Kali and Sayoc Fighting System, Pamana Tuhon Chris Sayoc
sayoc.com sayoc.com

You cant realistically put on mitts and 'spar' for everything in martial arts, and some things can only be done in real life or represented in film.


Click to expand...

All of this is utter nonsense and a testament to the fact these guys are completely disconnected from the reality of physical combat
 
shincheckin said:






Here's some more silat BS for you. Guy ran a gym a very long time ago, teaching boxing, Muay Thai, MMA, Kickboxing, savate, BJJ, basically everything, although his primary skills and background are JKD, escrima and silat. If I remember correctly he was Bruce Lee's daughters long time boyfriend and trained under Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto. Great stuff back in the hay day of American martial arts, but as we can see here, IMO the majority of these moves, techniques, are not practical.


I trained Muay Thai under this guy for like 6 months 20 plus years ago is this was the state of Muay Thai in America 20 years ago and the only people available "teaching it". Dude can't even kick correctly, it really was the blind leading the blind.
Click to expand...


Dan Sullivan is an okay guy. He has a lot of snakes around him though. I have his Dirty Boxing videos and I attended a couple of the seminars. I did not like some of the techniques, but I thought there was some good stuff in it. The good stuff in it is really basic MMA clinch and some of the good stuff in Silat is in wrestling and catch wrestling already..which I found out when I did a deeper dive into Catch.
 
death touch said:
Filipino martial arts / silat stuff are still selling out seminars and gathering large youtube followings with their very intricate sophisticated moves that have never ever been reproduced under any type of pressure.

I wonder why nobody seems to be picking up on this

I've searched extensively for silat fighters in action. There are a number of recorded mma fights with silat fighters and they are just kick boxing. None of their other techniques work so dont even try to use them
Click to expand...


There are people that spare w/ padded sticks and padded knifes. It gives the student some awareness that learning a million fancy techniques is not necessarily better than getting good at basics. There are some people that fight w/ real sticks and some armor. There are people that spar w/ heavy armor but I think padded sticks is better than that.

Inosanto blend got alot of people mixing Silat and FMA. Honestly, if you are good at double sticks, you will pick up Silat faster than most.
 
death touch said:
I wish youtube was a thing back then, I would have realized the best thing to do was join a judo gym. Fancy moves that actually work.

Click to expand...


Thanks for that. Love me some judo throws. Boxing messed up my nose so I'm done with it. Might get back to good ol' Judo
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Damn, that guy has been here for 22 years, defending every single garbage TMA in every possible thread. 22 years....
Click to expand...
- I think that awesome actually!

When i started here, everybody mocked taekwondo and karatê, thought!
 
Mr Mojo Lane said:
There are people that spare w/ padded sticks and padded knifes. It gives the student some awareness that learning a million fancy techniques is not necessarily better than getting good at basics. There are some people that fight w/ real sticks and some armor. There are people that spar w/ heavy armor but I think padded sticks is better than that.

Inosanto blend got alot of people mixing Silat and FMA. Honestly, if you are good at double sticks, you will pick up Silat faster than most.
Click to expand...
- I do remember a show with that. think was Spike? Back in 2007, they showed that before Battle-Domme!
 
Mr Mojo Lane said:
Dan Sullivan is an okay guy. He has a lot of snakes around him though. I have his Dirty Boxing videos and I attended a couple of the seminars. I did not like some of the techniques, but I thought there was some good stuff in it. The good stuff in it is really basic MMA clinch and some of the good stuff in Silat is in wrestling and catch wrestling already..which I found out when I did a deeper dive into Catch.
Click to expand...


He's a good guy for sure.
 
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This is how I feel about people like Dan Inosanto: "a man who has no talent can be taught certain scientific tricks, but the process is just as lifeless and as uninspired as teaching a dog to jump through a hoop. It is even possible by using a certain intellectual hammer to pound above average knowledge into an average person, but it still remains lifeless and unproductive knowledge. The result of such knowledge cramming is a man who may be a walking encyclopedia, but who still fails miserably in every situation and at every crucial moment in life when he needs to apply that knowledge."
 
death touch said:
This is how I feel about people like Dan Inosanto: "a man who has no talent can be taught certain scientific tricks, but the process is just as lifeless and as uninspired as teaching a dog to jump through a hoop. It is even possible by using a certain intellectual hammer to pound above average knowledge into an average person, but it still remains lifeless and unproductive knowledge. The result of such knowledge cramming is a man who may be a walking encyclopedia, but who still fails miserably in every situation and at every crucial moment in life when he needs to apply that knowledge."
Click to expand...
This sounds like some of the more fervent tma defenders on the forum
 
shincheckin said:






Here's some more silat BS for you. Guy ran a gym a very long time ago, teaching boxing, Muay Thai, MMA, Kickboxing, savate, BJJ, basically everything, although his primary skills and background are JKD, escrima and silat. If I remember correctly he was Bruce Lee's daughters long time boyfriend and trained under Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto. Great stuff back in the hay day of American martial arts, but as we can see here, IMO the majority of these moves, techniques, are not practical.


I trained Muay Thai under this guy for like 6 months 20 plus years ago is this was the state of Muay Thai in America 20 years ago and the only people available "teaching it". Dude can't even kick correctly, it really was the blind leading the blind.
Click to expand...

I doubt he trained under Bruce Lee

Inosanto doesn't teach JKD, he teaches something he invented... Bruce didn't even like Kali\Escrima, he was a Fencer

Silat is not popular out of his country, thats why is not criticized, those people believe in magical powers
 
TheMaster said:
These are both extremely dumb takes, filled with self serving conceit typical of people who only train MMA. So dry humping in spandex on a mat or gloved swinging in a ring became the standard for whats real in all martial arts? Really?

Yes, we know about kickboxing with sparring. We know about grappling. This is all well and good and effective within its domain. It doesn't qualify you to form an opinion though about realistic martial arts training with weapons. And Filipino Martial Arts are primarily about weapons, used and trained to this day by civilians, police and military there and in many parts of the world.

You fight these guys with a knife which they commonly carry in Filipines, even if you got one yourself, you will end up cut to ribbons and skinned and disposed of. Simple.

Your arguments are equivalent to "why don't I challenge Mike Tyson to a game of footsie. You see, he got no skills its all bs".

These guys will straight up kill you for disrespecting them and their arts, which is why there aint no "Mcdojo police" visiting like they do for Mall Karate.
I await the hurt ego tool responses, which are irrelevant.


This is Rafael Kayanan, a Kali instructor who choreographed the fight scenes in the epic move The Hunted.

View attachment 1051639

Sayoc Kali – A Historical Reference

Sayoc Kali - The official historical reference and timeline of the Founder and Creator of Sayoc Kali and Sayoc Fighting System, Pamana Tuhon Chris Sayoc
sayoc.com sayoc.com

You cant realistically put on mitts and 'spar' for everything in martial arts, and some things can only be done in real life or represented in film.


Click to expand...


<PlusJuan>

I trained Kali for more than 20 years. After we'd finished hitting each other with sticks and training daggers for an hour, the second hour of Kickboxing was actually kind of relaxing. :)

It's horses for courses. You wouldn't train BJJ to prep for a Kickboxing match. FMA is focused on weapons, especially bladed weapons, with the empty hand stuff very much secondary.
 
noc said:
I doubt he trained under Bruce Lee

Inosanto doesn't teach JKD, he teaches something he invented... Bruce didn't even like Kali\Escrima, he was a Fencer

Silat is not popular out of his country, thats why is not criticized, those people believe in magical powers
Click to expand...

The. Conversation I had with him about this was over 20 years ago, and he was in his maybe 30 or 40s at the time, so when he dated Bruce's daughter, it was a long time before this, when he was in his teens I believe. I never doubted his story but there's no way to verify it either.

These are his accomplishments, he was a good guy, just the Muay Thai that they provided wasn't what I was looking for at the time. he seems to be quite skilled in other martial arts.


  • 1st Degree Black Belt, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (Cleber Luciano, Gracie Humaita)
  • Senior Full Instructor (Ajarn), Muay Thai (Thai Boxing Association USA)
  • Third Level Instructor, Mixed Martial Arts (Miletich Fighting Systems)
  • Full Instructor, Jeet Kune Do (Dan Inosanto)
  • Full Instructor 4th Degree Black Belt, Filipino Martial Arts (Dan Inosanto)
  • Instructor, Silat (Dan Inosanto)
  • Instructor, Kalis Ilustrisimo (Antonio Diego)
  • Silver Glove, Savate (Nicolas Saignac)
 
I did Silat for 4-5 years. When I started kickboxing, I eventually learned to do foot sweeps, split entry, and cement mixers from Silat. Anecdotally, I knew a bouncer at a race track who had legitimate kick boxing fights, but all he used to throw the drunks around was Silat.

I don't think it is any worse than any other non-sparring martial art. It's like poets who don't submit anything--whatever they write is fine.

At least Silat has dope kicks and breakfalls and stuff.
 
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