Islam Makhachev > Usman Nurmagomedov?

[blaseblase]

Usman hasn't faced a serious test, we don't know what his upper limits are. What does Javier Mendez have to say about it? He's been extremely willling to publicly shill for his fighters, wonder if he's willing to pick a side or at least say that Usman holds his own in their sparring sessions. I don't think Usman decisioning dudes implies he is overrated, he dominated that fight. It's not like Khabib didn't have his share of boring fights.

 

[Paul E Gensinger]

In my opinion it goes like this

Khabib
Islam


Umar
Usman




Abubakar

Usman is much closer to Umar than Islam. Islam is definitely closer to Khabib. All of them are ridiculously good tho

A lot of beards and shared names. My first name is your last name and your my cousin and we all have beards.

 

[Paul E Gensinger]

Usman hasn't faced a serious test, we don't know what his upper limits are. What does Javier Mendez have to say about it? He's been extremely willling to publicly shill for his fighters, wonder if he's willing to pick a side or at least say that Usman holds his own in their sparring sessions. I don't think Usman decisioning dudes implies he is overrated, he dominated that fight. It's not like Khabib didn't have his share of boring fights.

And he won't in Bellator. And he won't in PFL either. I think he's elite but how will we ever really know. If these guys don't want to fight each other I guess I understand that each go and dominate at different companies.

 

[DeathByCaranos]

How do you think they would match up? I know that’s a big fantasy matchup.

During the Bellator card it was mentioned multiple times that Javier Mendez said Usman is the most talented fighter he has ever. Now I'm clearly speculating/extrapolating of that comment, but it leaves me to believe their head coach thinks Usman wins in the gym. Who knows though, I'd still lean Islam just from what I've seen of them in the cage

 

[fortheo]

And he won't in Bellator. And he won't in PFL either. I think he's elite but how will we ever really know. If these guys don't want to fight each other I guess I understand that each go and dominate at different companies.

I think shabliy can beat him

 

[fortheo]

How do you think they would match up? I know that’s a big fantasy matchup.

a boring, but evenly contested point kickboxing match at range, but with islam winning some grappling exchanges and taking a decision

 

[Xoleth]

Islam might be seen as more exciting and more wild.
But he is more reckless and Khabib had a better fight IQ.
Also, I believe current Islam, as a fighter and a person, is pretty much due to Khabib's influence.

 

[Paul E Gensinger]

I think shabliy can beat him

Someone who actually watches Bellator!
Man, no one ever mentions how big their cage is. Someone smarter than me needs to explain if that makes a difference.

 

[kahymo]

whats the point to compare guys who will never fight each other

Makachev is protected by the UFC
everything is setup to help him

and still, he looked bad against the smaller champion

he should have already fought Poirier or Gaatje
he should face the best strikers in the division

Edwards will beat him in a 5 round

 

[IneedSometop]

I think shabliy can beat him

I hope Shabily gets by Patricky. Think he'd be ranked guy in the UFC and is for sure Usman's toughest test in Bellator. Maybe Aj Mckee could be good fight but Spyke muscling him around during their grappling exchanges doesn't bode well

 

[IneedSometop]

Someone who actually watches Bellator!
Man, no one ever mentions how big their cage is. Someone smarter than me needs to explain if that makes a difference.

Bigger cage=more space to manuver, better for strikers who like to fight on back foot/be elusive. Bad for guys who want to force grappling exchanges against the cage and pressure fighters

 

[HuskySamoan]

He’s far more polished at 25 than Khabib and Islam were at that age.

Remember, before Khabib hit his stride he was decisioning the likes of Iaquinta and Pat Healy. Usman obviously has talent, he just needs time to develop. He’s not even close to his prime yet.

The road will only get harder from here. Shabily (or Pitbull, but not likely) is going to give him his first real test.

Usman is very close to his prime, that's nonsense. He didn't start at 18, he was wrestling by 8 and began Muay Thai when he was around 10, moved to Abdulamanps gym around 14-15 to live and train full time with Umar, Islam, Khabib and the rest of them. He's been training at an elite level for over a decade and competing for over a decade too, I forget which brother was saying it Usman or Umar but they competed in Russian National Championships in Muay Thai, he competed in Sambo and competed in amateur MMA tournaments all before turning pro in MMA at 18, almost 19. Dudes not going to rapidly improve at this rate, he has too much experience and physically he's absolutely in his athletic prime...which usually ends around 28.

Beyond this, Primus and Bendo are both like 40. Usman hasn't really beaten anyone that good yet, Shabliy, McKee, Tofiq are all bigger tests than anyone's he's fought so far.

 

[glenn777]

At this point enough people say Islams striking is underrated that I now proclaim it is RATED.

 

[Benoitthegr8]

What does Javier Mendez have to say about it? He's been extremely willling to publicly shill for his fighters

lol, hit the nail on the head… he sounds like a dishonest used car salesman’s, I find this odd considering he’s trained scores of notable fighters that have been UFC, SF, Bellator champs.

 

[Luckyme]

Usman is very close to his prime, that's nonsense. He didn't start at 18, he was wrestling by 8 and began Muay Thai when he was around 10, moved to Abdulamanps gym around 14-15 to live and train full time with Umar, Islam, Khabib and the rest of them. He's been training at an elite level for over a decade and competing for over a decade too, I forget which brother was saying it Usman or Umar but they competed in Russian National Championships in Muay Thai, he competed in Sambo and competed in amateur MMA tournaments all before turning pro in MMA at 18, almost 19. Dudes not going to rapidly improve at this rate, he has too much experience and physically he's absolutely in his athletic prime...which usually ends around 28.

Beyond this, Primus and Bendo are both like 40. Usman hasn't really beaten anyone that good yet, Shabliy, McKee, Tofiq are all bigger tests than anyone's he's fought so far.

Most fighters hit their prime around 29-31. At 25, Usman still has a few years to go. True there's not much more he can learn skill wise but he needs time to put it all together. And that will come through fight experience.

Khabib and Islam had similar pre-MMA combat experience, competing since they were very young, but it took them a while to tighten up their game and were around 30 when they peaked.

Usman at 25 has about as many pro MMA fights as Khabib did when he entered the UFC. Usman obviously is a lot more polished than Khabib or Islam at this stage in his career so he'll get there sooner.

I agree, he hasn't really been tested against a good LW yet. It's too bad AJ McKee had to pull out of the tournament. McKee vs Usman is the fight to make.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Islam is obviously a fair bit better right now but Usman is developing pretty nicely and starting to get to fight some decent opponents after mostly smashing cans early.

Shabliy is going to be a big test though

 

[Serge421]

I loved it when in the post fight interview Big John said it was a sparring match right to Usmans face lol

 

[HuskySamoan]

Most fighters hit their prime around 29-31. At 25, Usman still has a few years to go. True there's not much more he can learn skill wise but he needs time to put it all together. And that will come through fight experience.

Khabib and Islam had similar pre-MMA combat experience, competing since they were very young, but it took them a while to tighten up their game and were around 30 when they peaked.

Usman at 25 has about as many pro MMA fights as Khabib did when he entered the UFC. Usman obviously is a lot more polished than Khabib or Islam at this stage in his career so he'll get there sooner.

I agree, he hasn't really been tested against a good LW yet. It's too bad AJ McKee had to pull out of the tournament. McKee vs Usman is the fight to make.

Shabliy and Tofiq would have beaten McKee in my humble opinion. Did you see McKee vs De Souza? A close decision, even McKee vs that ginger wasn't impressive. Shabliy is the fight we want, he's been in there with great guys and has shown great endurance, defensive wrestling and he's a great outside striker with slick kicks similar to Usman. I don't even know if we get a final round of this tournament pending Bellator gets sold or whatever though. Shabliy is top 10 UFC caliber easy to me.

Usman has had a different trajectory than Islam and Khabib. Usman has began training out of AKA with the American style and influence in conjunction with Eagles MMA at a MUCH earlier age than Islam and Khabib. Islam and Khabib were training out of renovated basketball courts with Abdulmanap at Usmans age. The system of Eagles MMA with a huge coaching staff and state of the art facility and the connection with Javier Mendez and AKA was made so they could develop guys like Umar and Usman. There's tons of guys in Russia with extensive combat sports backgrounds stemming from childhood who just need the structure and opportunity to be elite in MMA. Khabib and Islam helped build it, Usman and Umar get to reap more of the rewards.

 

[Luckyme]

Shabliy and Tofiq would have beaten McKee in my humble opinion. Did you see McKee vs De Souza? A close decision, even McKee vs that ginger wasn't impressive. Shabliy is the fight we want, he's been in there with great guys and has shown great endurance, defensive wrestling and he's a great outside striker with slick kicks similar to Usman. I don't even know if we get a final round of this tournament pending Bellator gets sold or whatever though. Shabliy is top 10 UFC caliber easy to me.

Usman has had a different trajectory than Islam and Khabib. Usman has began training out of AKA with the American style and influence in conjunction with Eagles MMA at a MUCH earlier age than Islam and Khabib. Islam and Khabib were training out of renovated basketball courts with Abdulmanap at Usmans age. The system of Eagles MMA with a huge coaching staff and state of the art facility and the connection with Javier Mendez and AKA was made so they could develop guys like Umar and Usman. There's tons of guys in Russia with extensive combat sports backgrounds stemming from childhood who just need the structure and opportunity to be elite in MMA. Khabib and Islam helped build it, Usman and Umar get to reap more of the rewards.

I was impressed by Shabily's performance against Musaev despite the weird ending. And unlike Usman, he actually managed to stop Primus on the feet. I think out of all the Bellator LWs, he has the best shot of beating Usman standing. But Usman is so risk-averse, I doubt he will let himself be lured into a firefight. I expect a GSP like performance with strategic takedowns and GnP while controlling Shabily from guard.

I watched the Souza fight. AJ was a little wild on the feet and nearly got RNCed in the end but was dominant early on. It was also his first time in a ring. I still think he presents challenges for Usman though with his wrestling and crafty submissions.

I do agree that Usman and the next generation of Dagestani fighters benefited a lot from the road Khabib paved. Dagestan didn't even have a proper MMA gym until Khabib's dad opened one just a couple of years prior to his passing.

 

[rjmbrd]

more exciting, which isn't saying much.

How dare you lol