Is wonderboy the best Karate based Kickboxer in the UFC history?

aerius said:
No, because Valentina Shevchenko used to compete in shiny pants kickboxing.

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If that would have been shiny-tight-pants kickboxing I would agree, but now we are talking about Karate.
 
This year is the first year I didn't buy a PPV in a long ass time
 
Kickboxing is karate, it was created by Karateka, and karate can be very effective as a striking art, but for some reason there is some sort of a negative opinion about it here. It's like people expect karatekas to be dominating mma matches just on karate alone.
 
I think the best karate stylist in mma history would technically be Rick Roufus. He got into the sport way past his prime & did not have much grappling experience.
 
I think Muay Thai and kickboxing, the Euro and Asian version are highly overrated (for MMA). I enjoy the techniques and will watch the hell out of glory, lionfights, old K1, etc, but when it comes to MMA I have been let down too much by high-level kick-boxers and Muay Thai fighters coming in and getting the shit beaten out of them by people who have no business to do so. The list really could go on and on of people like Manhoef, Saki, Overeem, Cro-Cop, and Hunt getting lamped to absolute shit by lesser strikers. There are some obvious holes in the game of kickboxing that makes it very iffy when coming over to MMA. They stand straight up and right in front of the opponent and kickboxing doesn't emphasize head or upper body movement, all making them easy targets defensively. Also, this upright stance makes it even easier for wrestlers to come in and blow them off their feet and put them on their backs, something kick-boxers are already vastly open to being that they've been kickboxing their whole lives with no wrestling training.

I do think that MMA has at least made people do a double-take on how effective TMA and American Kickboxing CAN BE if utilized right. First, when you look at people who have practiced traditional martial arts one of the things that stands out immediately is their hand-speed and accuracy compared to other strikers. People like Thompson, Pettis, and Machida are extremely fleet-handed and are very pin-point. Along with this, they control distance better than a vast majority of strikers. Also, they show better head, upper body, and footwork than kick-boxers and Muay Thai fighters. All of these things are directly linked to the traditional martial arts point-fighting system. I look at kickboxing and Muay Thai as more of a brutal war of attrition than being very tactical. Of course their are exceptions to the rule, like old school Petrosyan etc, but that's how I look at it generally. Again, I will watch kickboxing and Muay Thai anytime and enjoy it and all the great fighters they've brought us, but that's just my 2 cents.

Glad this discussion was brought forward though as it was something I had been thinking about a lot lately but didn't really sit down and flesh out fully in my mind.
 
SBC said:
I think Muay Thai and kickboxing, the Euro and Asian version are highly overrated (for MMA). I enjoy the techniques and will watch the hell out of glory, lionfights, old K1, etc, but when it comes to MMA I have been let down too much by high-level kick-boxers and Muay Thai fighters coming in and getting the shit beaten out of them by people who have no business to do so.
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Said the same @ TSF, recieved a bad spanking. Hhhmmmm.{<huh}
SBC said:
The list really could go on and on of people like Manhoef, Saki, Overeem, Cro-Cop, and Hunt getting lamped to absolute shit by lesser strikers. There are some obvious holes in the game of kickboxing that makes it very iffy when coming over to MMA. They stand straight up and right in front of the opponent and kickboxing doesn't emphasize head or upper body movement, all making them easy targets defensively.
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Problem w the styles. MMA only exposes this because within the style, the guy across from you is doing the same dumbness. Kyokushin karate I've found one of the most guilty.

SBC said:
Also, this upright stance makes it even easier for wrestlers to come in and blow them off their feet and put them on their backs, something kick-boxers are already vastly open to being that they've been kickboxing their whole lives with no wrestling training.
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And @ the same time, the MMA wrestler-success stories copy the same MO. Witness Ben Akren's self-ending carerr shoot on Mas; or the stall out of the Magnificence Amberson-Gracies. Tunnel vision instead of 'evolution.'<{hughesimpress}>

SBC said:
I do think that MMA has at least made people do a double-take on how effective TMA and American Kickboxing CAN BE if utilized right. First, when you look at people who have practiced traditional martial arts one of the things that stands out immediately is their hand-speed and accuracy compared to other strikers. People like Thompson, Pettis, and Machida are extremely fleet-handed and are very pin-point. Along with this, they control distance better than a vast majority of strikers. Also, they show better head, upper body, and footwork than kick-boxers and Muay Thai fighters. All of these things are directly linked to the traditional martial arts point-fighting system. I look at kickboxing and Muay Thai as more of a brutal war of attrition than being very tactical. Of course their are exceptions to the rule, like old school Petrosyan etc, but that's how I look at it generally. Again, I will watch kickboxing and Muay Thai anytime and enjoy it and all the great fighters they've brought us, but that's just my 2 cents.
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Good & decent points. Yet when these guys continue in MMA, it seems to muddle their brains at the same time. Thompson played point-fighting pattycake w Power Wrestler-Hitter Woodley, then cried when the judges went against him.

SBC said:
Glad this discussion was brought forward though as it was something I had been thinking about a lot lately but didn't really sit down and flesh out fully in my mind.
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Nice piece. But here's what I'm talking about w Thompson.
Superman Punch 　 Anthony Pettis　　アンソニー・ペティス　スーパーマンパンチ
40,202 views
•Mar 24, 2019


firetvstick
77 subscribers

Following your take on Pettis, Thompson is literally playing w fire. This ain't Jony Hendricks.

I can see why the karate guys like Thompson morph to kickboxing. But if you're gonna box, box. The kick that sets this whole KO dynamic off is lazy and non-committal. Not accurate like 'karate' according to you. Then Wonderboy disregards re-chambering (see any karate kid vid) into solid stance... which makes him prime target for sneaky Muay Thai attack. Bingo.

Bingo. Petty sees the opportunity & launches his trademark flash @ just the right time. Wonderboy's suck-y boxing movement keeps him straight in the path of the oncoming missile. Boxing's not supposed to move like that! Thompson vainly tries to offest with another non-committal strike, a weak counter hook flailed out there while he's completely off balance. He threw away the whole match w that floating-crap hook counter crap. Not at all decent boxing.

Sometimes I feel MMA training dilutes the boxing lessons so important to deliver a basic good shot.
 
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Nelly said:
This is the first time I've ever associated a Josh with kickboxing. Feels strange.
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Have to be kidding right? You do know what AKA stands for right?
 
blaseblah said:
I didn't know Josh Thomson knew karate
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How he met Chuck bitd.. AKA use to be a sport karate and kickboxing gym originally, hence the wrestlers who call that place home.. they went there to obtain striking skill sets and stayed. Javier is a world champ in both, Bob has trained in both and has trained many in both.
 
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