Is western Kickboxing/FCK still alive?

[Ogata]

It seems like every kickboxing and MMA gym teaches Muay Thai or just pure boxing. It seems like western kickboxing or some refer to as karate/kickboxing is no longer around. I had a trainer who does privates because his gym closed down. Now he just works as a delivery person.


I understand that the whole no low kicks and the PKA rules were not well receiving but the techniques of western kickboxing are great and useful and a good number of trainers have decent boxing skills.

What is going on your town?

 

[SuperLuigi]

Its still around in Germany and Russia but is basically dead in America.

 

[RicardinhoPT]

In Europe it's still very big, bigger than MMA and in some of the countries bigger than boxing

 

[Snubnoze707]

In Europe it's still very big, bigger than MMA and in some of the countries bigger than boxing

Which countries and which promotions?

 

[Broadcast]

What is "Western kickboxing" and FCK?

 

[Kanka]

Which countries and which promotions?

I think there is an amateur scene. I met a couple of girls at least who had competed within that ruleset. I wouldn't consider the scene to be big let alone "very big".

 

[RicardinhoPT]

Which countries and which promotions?

The scene is different than in the US. I'll give you an example on the Netherlands. Before covid19 hit, there used to be multiple kickboxing events every weekend and those events usually contain N, C, B and A class fighters where A class fighters are considered the pro's. If you're a kickboxer, you could fight every weekend. There are maybe 1 or 2 mma events a month (sometimes zero) and maybe a little bit more boxing events. There are some events with muay thai rules but most are on k1 rules (no clinching and no elbows).

There used to be big shows like K1, Slamm or It's Showtime. Now the only big shows are Glory or Enfusion in the Netherlands.

Some more Eastern countries and the UK have a more lively boxing scene but I would say kickboxing is still the major fight sport in Europe. MMA is coming up though

 

[Snubnoze707]

The scene is different than in the US. I'll give you an example on the Netherlands. Before covid19 hit, there used to be multiple kickboxing events every weekend and those events usually contain N, C, B and A class fighters where A class fighters are considered the pro's. If you're a kickboxer, you could fight every weekend. There are maybe 1 or 2 mma events a month (sometimes zero) and maybe a little bit more boxing events. There are some events with muay thai rules but most are on k1 rules (no clinching and no elbows).

There used to be big shows like K1, Slamm or It's Showtime. Now the only big shows are Glory or Enfusion in the Netherlands.

Some more Eastern countries and the UK have a more lively boxing scene but I would say kickboxing is still the major fight sport in Europe. MMA is coming up though

This thread is about American Kickboxing or Karate style kickboxing. Ya know, long pants and spin kicks, not what you are talking about. I've been posting in the Kickboxing forum for over 10 years I already know about it.

 

[RicardinhoPT]

This thread is about American Kickboxing or Karate style kickboxing. Ya know, long pants and spin kicks, not what you are talking about. I've been posting in the Kickboxing forum for over 10 years I already know about it.

That is definitely dead. I believe it's still being done a little in the UK but it's definitely not big.

Under western kicboxing I understood K1 rules kickboxing but should have read TS post better

 

[Ogata]

Its still around in Germany and Russia but is basically dead in America.

American kickboxing is alive in non-American countries?

 

[Blazeblack]

American kickboxing is alive in non-American countries?

It’s done almost exclusively in non-American countries now. It is still a thing in the Western Europe (The UK and France mostly) and the former Soviet Union.

 

[Broadcast]

The scene is different than in the US. I'll give you an example on the Netherlands. Before covid19 hit, there used to be multiple kickboxing events every weekend and those events usually contain N, C, B and A class fighters where A class fighters are considered the pro's. If you're a kickboxer, you could fight every weekend. There are maybe 1 or 2 mma events a month (sometimes zero) and maybe a little bit more boxing events. There are some events with muay thai rules but most are on k1 rules (no clinching and no elbows).

There used to be big shows like K1, Slamm or It's Showtime. Now the only big shows are Glory or Enfusion in the Netherlands.

Some more Eastern countries and the UK have a more lively boxing scene but I would say kickboxing is still the major fight sport in Europe. MMA is coming up though

Slamm wasn"t a big show, K-1 wasn"t a Dutch show but hosted major annual events in Amsterdam. Mecca moved to Romania for a while, especially because of television. Superkombat split into 5-6 promotions all with TV behind, between them 4 are 1st tier in the country. Sure they can"t attract the foreign names that Superkombat attracted, but the level in Romania is very high for Europe.

These A, B and C class of fighters are gym events, small events, but pro. The Netherlands currently only has Enfusion. WFL could also return though. IF Glory disappears (and let"s say ONE too), then the only chance of the Dutch fighters would be to fight in Enfusion or in Romania. Mostly, because there are promotions in Europe also in Russia and not only.

Best European promotions ever were:

1. It"s Showtime
2. Local Kombat/Superkombat
3. Golden League (or what was its name, also hosted events in your Portugal)

AND KICKBOXING is certainly BIGGER almost everywhere in Europe than MMA. MMA is not even close and is considered violent on the continent. Just because some Europeans fight in the UFC, because the level of the Americans is becoming trash, doesn"t mean MMA is popular in Europe. But people in Sweden for example also needed models in fighting sports. The MMA shows in Sweden are purely amateurish compared to kickboxing in Europe. MMA in Germany is also not big. MMA just in Russia and kind of Britain but losing terrain again, is notable. MMA in Europe is pretty much 0 outside of Russia. I should say there is also MMA in the Netherlands but not really a circuit compared to the kickboxing one. And they do MMA also because of kickboxing.

I will take your neighbor Spain, how many MMA artists do you know? While they still have Jorge Loren in kickboxing. How many MMA artists are in Italy? Or at least in Spain?

 

[Broadcast]

Regarding amateur kickboxing, besides WAKO, there are circuits in Russia and Serbia that are pretty good. Romania also reopened them, not sure why because kickboxing is pretty much pro here. In the Netherlands from what I know the sport is only pro. So those A, B and C fights are sanctioned as professional. Just that the events are little, organized by gyms or minor promotions.

Anyway, the discussion was about American kickboxing.

It’s done almost exclusively in non-American countries now. It is still a thing in the Western Europe (The UK and France mostly) and the former Soviet Union.

If I am not wrong, Jamie Bates of the UK? Or he was just in karate? Or both? France has Savate. Where did you hear about American kickboxing in Russia?

 

[Tayski]

The American style Kickboxing you're talking about still exists in some places in Europe for example in the UK and in France, I have trained at some of those gyms a few times out of curiosity.

In France that style is often referred to as "Full Contact":
https://www.clubolympiquebayonnais.com/full-contact/
http://www.vienneboxe.fr/le-full-contact/

It's mostly amateur though not professional, and it's definitely not as big or widespread as Muay Thai, Boxing or MMA.

 

[Tayski]

In Europe it's still very big, bigger than MMA and in some of the countries bigger than boxing

You're talking about K-1 style Kickboxing which is big in countries like The Netherlands and Romania. There's not many places where it's bigger than MMA or Boxing though.

 

[Dexter]

Regarding amateur kickboxing, besides WAKO, there are circuits in Russia and Serbia that are pretty good. Romania also reopened them, not sure why because kickboxing is pretty much pro here. In the Netherlands from what I know the sport is only pro. So those A, B and C fights are sanctioned as professional. Just that the events are little, organized by gyms or minor promotions.

Anyway, the discussion was about American kickboxing.


If I am not wrong, Jamie Bates of the UK? Or he was just in karate? Or both? France has Savate. Where did you hear about American kickboxing in Russia?

American style KB is quite popular in Russia (amateur scene). A lot of tournaments for youth and adults, many good and educated coaches (Sport Institutes graduates, with speciality in KB).

 

[RicardinhoPT]

Slamm wasn"t a big show, K-1 wasn"t a Dutch show but hosted major annual events in Amsterdam. Mecca moved to Romania for a while, especially because of television. Superkombat split into 5-6 promotions all with TV behind, between them 4 are 1st tier in the country. Sure they can"t attract the foreign names that Superkombat attracted, but the level in Romania is very high for Europe.

These A, B and C class of fighters are gym events, small events, but pro. The Netherlands currently only has Enfusion. WFL could also return though. IF Glory disappears (and let"s say ONE too), then the only chance of the Dutch fighters would be to fight in Enfusion or in Romania. Mostly, because there are promotions in Europe also in Russia and not only.

Best European promotions ever were:

1. It"s Showtime
2. Local Kombat/Superkombat
3. Golden League (or what was its name, also hosted events in your Portugal)

AND KICKBOXING is certainly BIGGER almost everywhere in Europe than MMA. MMA is not even close and is considered violent on the continent. Just because some Europeans fight in the UFC, because the level of the Americans is becoming trash, doesn"t mean MMA is popular in Europe. But people in Sweden for example also needed models in fighting sports. The MMA shows in Sweden are purely amateurish compared to kickboxing in Europe. MMA in Germany is also not big. MMA just in Russia and kind of Britain but losing terrain again, is notable. MMA in Europe is pretty much 0 outside of Russia. I should say there is also MMA in the Netherlands but not really a circuit compared to the kickboxing one. And they do MMA also because of kickboxing.

I will take your neighbor Spain, how many MMA artists do you know? While they still have Jorge Loren in kickboxing. How many MMA artists are in Italy? Or at least in Spain?

Slamm had very big names on every event. Not one name, not two but about 10 big names on an event.

Apart from that I agree with you, kickboxing is much bigger. But for example Germany has quite some mma events. A lot of Dutch mma fighters fight in Germany because they had events way more often than in NL. And you see more and more kickboxing gyms offering mma classes, it's growing

 

[RicardinhoPT]

You're talking about K-1 style Kickboxing which is big in countries like The Netherlands and Romania. There's not many places where it's bigger than MMA or Boxing though.

Yes it is, in a lot of countries, I would say it's even bigger in most. For example Belgium, France, Spain and Portugal. In France mma was even banned until not so long ago.

 

[Monte Moku]

The American style Kickboxing you're talking about still exists in some places in Europe for example in the UK and in France, I have trained at some of those gyms a few times out of curiosity.

In France that style is often referred to as "Full Contact":
https://www.clubolympiquebayonnais.com/full-contact/
http://www.vienneboxe.fr/le-full-contact/

It's mostly amateur though not professional, and it's definitely not as big or widespread as Muay Thai, Boxing or MMA.

How was training at a Full Contact gym? I've also been curious about going to one just to see what's up, but I'm in the states haha

 

[Blazeblack]

Regarding amateur kickboxing, besides WAKO, there are circuits in Russia and Serbia that are pretty good. Romania also reopened them, not sure why because kickboxing is pretty much pro here. In the Netherlands from what I know the sport is only pro. So those A, B and C fights are sanctioned as professional. Just that the events are little, organized by gyms or minor promotions.

Anyway, the discussion was about American kickboxing.


If I am not wrong, Jamie Bates of the UK? Or he was just in karate? Or both? France has Savate. Where did you hear about American kickboxing in Russia?

By looking up the results of several WAKO World, World Cup and European championships. Eastern block countries have historically been among the top medal winners. Here’s the results from the latest world championships in Full contact, Light contact, point sparring and “forms”-
WAKO SENIOR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 2019 SENIORS - PF, KL, FC AND MF, 2019-11-26
RANK COUNTRY

GOLD

SILVER

BRONZE TOTAL
1 RUSSIA (RUS) 12 9 5 26
2 HUNGARY (HUN) 9 6 14 29
3 ITALY (ITA) 7 12 9 28
4 GREAT BRITAIN (GBR) 5 1 5 11
5 TURKEY (TUR) 3 5 9 17
6 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (USA) 3 3 1 7
7 KAZAKHSTAN (KAZ) 3 2 1 6
8 POLAND (POL) 2 3 8 13
9 BULGARIA (BUL) 2 2 2 6
10 SLOVENIA (SLO) 2 0 1 3
CZECH REPUPLIC (CZE) 2 0 1 3
12 MEXICO (MEX) 1 4 4 9
13 UKRAINE (UKR) 1 3 12 16
14 CROATIA (CRO) 1 2 5 8
15 NORWAY (NOR) 1 2 2 5
16 AUSTRIA (AUT) 1 2 0 3
17 GREECE (GRE) 1 1 4 6
18 AZERBAIJAN (AZE) 1 1 3 5
19 SLOVAKIA (SVK) 1 1 2 4
20 DENMARK (DEN) 1 1 1 3
FINLAND (FIN) 1 1 1 3
22 GUATEMALA (GUA) 1 0 3 4
23 SWITZERLAND (SUI) 1 0 2 3
SOUTH AFRICA (RSA) 1 0 2 3
25 MOROCCO (MAR) 1 0 1 2
KYRGYZSTAN (KGZ) 1 0 1 2
27 LATVIA (LAT) 1 0 0 1
CHILE (CHI) 1 0 0 1
ESTONIA (EST) 1 0 0 1
GEORGIA (GEO) 1 0 0 1
BOSNIA & HERZEGOVINA (BIH) 1 0 0 1
32 GERMANY (GER) 0 2 6 8
33 CANADA (CAN) 0 2 0 2
34 SPAIN (ESP) 0 1 4 5
35 FRANCE (FRA) 0 1 1 2
TURKMENISTAN (TKM) 0 1 1 2
37 JORDAN (JOR) 0 1 0 1
BELGIUM (BEL) 0 1 0 1
39 IRELAND (IRL) 0 0 4 4
40 NORTH MACEDONIA (MKD) 0 0 2 2
MAURITIUS (MRI) 0 0 2 2
ARGENTINA (ARG) 0 0 2 2
ISRAEL (ISR) 0 0 2 2
44 TUNISIA (TUN) 0 0 1 1
ROMANIA (ROU) 0 0 1 1 UNITED ARAB EMIRATES (UAE) 0 0 1 1
SWEDEN (SWE) 0 0 1 1