Is there a 'eureka' type moment?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Altephor, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. Altephor Yellow Belt

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    I've been doing BJJ for about 2.5 weeks now, which I realize is not a long time. I am learning the techniques fairly quickly, but the problem I'm having is with free rolling. I pick up techniques very fast; our instructor is good and quick to make pointers about small things to correct (for instance last night he pointed out that I kept grabbing my foot to pull in a triangle rather than the shin). The techniques themselves are fairly easy and I usually have decent form after just a few tries. But then I get to free rolling and I lose all the structure. It sort of becomes for me: if my partner is not in the EXACT position he was in the drills then I don't really know how to pull something off. For instance, I know how to armbar from guard, but only from guard. I know how to get a triangle from spider guard, but again only if I'm in the exact position I was when we drilled it.

    Is this just a matter of me not knowing enough variations? Or am I just not making connections when things are a little more variable. Or maybe I'm doing things right and I should be trying to find those exact positions befor attempting a sub? Just wondering if there is some time where it's just going to click how to transition from x position to y position to z submission, etc.
     
  2. anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    ITs because you focus on techniques rather than concepts and positions. A technique is only applicable in the exact situation you learned it. A concept is applicable from everywhere.

    For example, when passing, you generally need to have control of the guys hips and more specifically the guy should be flat on the floor. There are several ways to do this - farside underhook, pulling the near elbow, pushing the far hip down, pulling the close knee/foot, moving towards his far side to make him flat, etc.

    If you just think about "This is the technique to pass, 1, 2, 3" that will never work on anyone that knows jiujitstu. You need to find small details from all positions and start putting them together.

    Also, the short answer for submissions is that you need to drill them more. If your instructor is showing you new techniques and submissions every class thats probably the problem. We spend at least a week, usually several weeks, working on the same chain of moves from a certain position. Even after all that its hard to pull the move off regularly. Thats just part of the game.
     
  3. Wrestleben Brown Belt

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    You may feel like you are "getting" the move after drilling it a few times, but in reality you need 100's or 1000's of repetitions to get a move down solid. You have to be able to set up moves and control your opponent to be able to put them in a position to submit them. I would focus more on position right now then submissions. The rest will come with time.

    You're a BJJ baby right now...keep going to class and stuff will come together.
     
  4. thaiboxer92 White Belt

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    it could be a little bit of both it sounds more like to me not knowing how to modify a submission just a little bit to get it to work. my coach always says position before submission get to mount sidemount back mount and until you can hold your oppentent their dont go for too many submissions
     
  5. FWTG Blue Belt

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    I found 3 months in and 8 months in to be big eureka type moments for me. It generally takes years of practice to truely get "good" at BJJ.
     
  6. blanko Guest

    your jiu jitsu iq goes up with your time on the mat
     
  7. DaRuckus337 Black Belt

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    imo, there is no such thing as a 'eureka' moment. There are little eurekas every once in a while with regards to a particular position or technique, but I have never had any large-scale general epiphanies that changed my game overnight. It's a slow and steady process, and you just need to make sure to get a little better each day.
     
  8. FWTG Blue Belt

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    Good point. Sometimes you will get a eureka with a certain technique or combo ect. I think the general euruka moments have more to do with hip movement, reaction time, hitting the right angles and being able to flow from technique to technique without really thinking about it.
     
  9. LordarshynBJJ Blue Belt

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    You can practice a technique until you know it...but it needs to come to a point where you really understand that technique...to the point where you can use it from multiple positions, and sense that your opponents are open to it, instead of having to think about it. You'll even start coming up with your own variations.

    So yeah, there are many 'eureka' type moments. I have them every day. Sometimes I'll do or see something and I think "wow, I never thought of that before," and it will fit into my game perfectly.

    Once you learn to defend and really start learning some of the moves you'll get better at a really quick rate, and you'll even start learning techniques faster. But as much as it sucks, you have to start with the bottom and work your way up.

    Give yourself a few months and you'll be making the two weekers feel like you are right now. haha.

    EDIT:
    Also I'd like to add that when I drill techniques, I don't just drill them from one position. I drill them from every imaginable position that I can pull them off from. That makes a huge amount of difference as well. I have learned to make myself love drilling, because in all honesty it is the most important and probably the most boring part of BJJ...but to get good you have to do it, so I make myself enjoy it.
     
  10. The Colonel Purple Belt

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    I've never had any moments like Chong Li is talking about with epiphanies (lol) but I have had moments where things just clicked and I was able to "think" about jiu-jitsu much better if that makes any sense.

    It was years ago but after a practice all of a sudden I could think about how an entire rolling session went, you know, "well I did this then he omoplata'd only I rolled and we ended up here then he did this" and so on. When you're a beginner nine times out of ten you get caught in these little, little details that are important, but its kind of like you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

    Once you learn to see the bigger picture and how things move from one position to another and instead of just defending you realize what led you to be put in that position, that's when you'll have a eureka moment.
     
  11. LordarshynBJJ Blue Belt

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    You put it perfectly.

    It's like when you learn to drive. At first you only see the few feet of road in front of your car, then you start to see everything.

    I used to roll and think "what the fuck just happened?" afterwords, but I can remember a whole entire class worth of rolling these days.
     
  12. SuperSuperRambo Steel Belt

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    I don't know about a "eureka" moment. It sounds like you're just like anyone who's just started training. Of course you aren't applying your techniques well when rolling. You've been training less than a month. It's one thing to master a technique when drilling, and another when the guy is fighting you. Keep training, and these things will come. But most of all, be patient. We all went through that phase.
     
  13. irc Brown Belt

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    2.5 weeks.
     
  14. SuperSuperRambo Steel Belt

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    Another excellent point, for people of all levels.
     
  15. Trickster*** Banned Banned

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    "I've been doing BJJ for about 2.5 weeks?" I found this funny. Not bc you have only been training for a few week, everyone starts sometime but it's like a kid saying "Im 9 and 3/4 years old"
     
  16. Altephor Yellow Belt

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    Well I started on a Monday and I do MWF and my next class is tomorrow, so I figured that counts as half a week. :redface:
     
  17. SFinclined Purple Belt

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    It depends how you learn, I can go for a long time clueless then all the sudden something clicks, the same happened with my grappling and in the course of a few days my game seriously got 10x better.

    You should put more focus on concepts like Anaconda said, if you learn a technique but don't know how to get there or why it works then you haven't really learned much.
     
  18. sir-elric Guest

    u r way to new in the whole thing! first u hv to learn the moves, then u will start to see opportunities and then u will start setting opportunities!!

    the distance between driling a movie and applying doing rolling is what makes it beautifull!! im still learning moves and trying to see opportunities
     
  19. Altephor Yellow Belt

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    I am finding myself getting better at least. Last night I partnered with a guy doing his first class, and I found myself actually able to help him with things like grip and foot placement and whatnot. His triangles were sloppy and on my shoulders rather than my neck, and as I was helping him out I was thinking to myself how it's definitely good that I recognize these things. Free rolling was a little silly though, he knew nothing and I know essentially NEXT to nothing, so it was a lot of guard, guard, guard, sweep, guard, guard, guard.
     
  20. Mr. Switch TALLY HO!

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    No big one- just little ones... lots of tiny little ones... very occasionally... But then again perhaps they're not eureka moments- perhaps they're just moments when you realise that you're better than you used to be... I dunno.
     

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