Is the UFC past its peak? If so, what year did UFC/MMA peak in general?
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Back when people still through UFC parties. I'm pretty sure those aren't a thing anymore.
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UFC peaked in 2012 and it's been downhill ever since
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People got to realize that their enthusiasm will never stay the same with time and age. I will NEVER stop being interested in MMA, so I dont really give a shit about labeling stuff. Am I as obsessed as I was in my 20s? of course not, but who the fuck stays that way ?
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We stopped inviting you.
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Maybe for the hardcore fans... but there are more casual fans than ever...
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Ufc hasn't peaked yet.
Not until...
Not until...
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20 plus years in a would say I miss the older fighters. I'm sure because I knew them better and they were my age. They acted like me and if you knew some of them from prospect status. For the ufc it really used to be the best fighting the best and that changed with conor. That and the political element have made me like it less. It really was just about fighting then. Now it has changed and I don't love that. Like most of us on here I still love it but not the way I used too.
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90s was wild, 2000 was best top to bottom quality, 2010s the biggest overall stars, 2020s is usually solid fights and solid cards but stars aren't as big and not as many big fights up and down the card.
Right now we are in "solid and consistent" era where the highs aren't as high but generally we get "good" often.
Right now we are in "solid and consistent" era where the highs aren't as high but generally we get "good" often.
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MMA has an extremely high turnover of fans compared to other sports and it's very common to hear people say that they "got really into it for a few years but stopped watching".
There have been many peaks that usher in new fans but because the UFC has no respect for history and always focuses on "the next card being the best ever", I think many people get burned out when a lot of their favorites get older/get discarded and they lose interest. This would lead to many people claiming that their era of fandom was "the best" when in reality, it's usually just their nostalgia talking.
For context, I was a die hard fan from 2006-2019 (although I had watched casually before this and still followed for years after) so I witnessed a lot of the different "boom periods" and feel that I can give a fairly educated opinion as to when the sport actually started to decline in quality as opposed to when I personally started to lose interest. Trying to be as objective as possible though, I see these are being some of the critical points for when MMA started to go downhill:
2010: Shogun gets the first immediate rematch of the modern era: While I feel like this rematch was actually warranted, this set a bad precedent and ushered in the era when champions essentially had to be defeated twice in a row for a title change to really take place. This takes away all of the excitement of an upset, it burns the fans out with repetitive marketing, it holds up the division, and it usually leads to a viable name suddenly appearing "past their prime" with an 0-2 record which not only hurts them but makes the champion look less credible by beating someone who's "washed up". No one benefits from this lazy matchmaking.
2013: The UFC introduces its own ranking system: After years of shitting on the idea of rankings, the UFC finally created their own and sold it to us as the most important way of evaluating a fighter's worth. While this may seem silly, rankings really just became a lazy way of marketing cards without having to put in the effort to actually create stars. "What do you mean this is a weak card? We have the number 7 guy fighting the number 10 guy. You don't know shit about MMA!"
Rankings are completely subjective, they change frequently, and P4P is really just a meaningless marketing tool created to sell the small weight classes when they were extremely unpopular at the time. When this very fickle metric became the focus over actual fan investment in a star, MMA started to suffer. Rankings mean nothing if the matchmaking doesn't reflect them and seeing guys coming off of losses get title shots severely damages any crediblity this "sport" tries to project.
2013-2014: The number of cards per year jumps up by nearly 30%. 2012 was the first time a UFC PPV was full on cancelled because the co-main event was so weak that the card couldn't survive when the main event fell apart. You'd think this would be a cautionary tale to start increasing the quality of cards but this didn't stop the UFC from suddenly putting on 13 MORE CARDS in 2014 than they did in 2013 (an additional card was also scheduled but cancelled).
This was the era when we actually started to see multiple fight nights in 1 weekend (there has even 3 on 1 weekend!) which is the definition of oversaturation. Once this became the norm, people got used to having weaker quality cards as a regular occurence and events went from "must watch" to "skippable besides the main event". This is still often the case in modern day.
2014: UFC inks the Reebok deal: While many hated the generic look of the uniforms and how unfair the deal was to current fighters, I think many overlook how damaging this deal was to recruiting new elite talent to MMA. If you are a college wrestler with a degree, why the hell would you risk trying to make it as a professional MMA fighter when there is very little chance of making substantial money? The salaries for even the top MMA fighters are embarrassingly low compared to other sports, you are responsible for all of your own costs, and now you can't even make money off of your own brand? While this deal made the UFC a lot of money in the short term, it absolutely hurt the sport in the long run. Are we really seeing the best of the best when only a small fraction of athletes are willing/able to dedicate themselves to training full time? If full time members of the roster have to have full time jobs in order to support themselves, I have a hard time believing we're actually seeing fighters reaching their full potential. There is a reason why we are suddenly seeing an influx of talent from developing countries...
2016: Conor gets a LW title shot and the "money fight" era begins: GSP vs Penn was a special occasion and we didn't see a Champion vs Champion fight again for over 7 YEARS. This "money fight era" led to champions frequently taking long hiatuses, multiple divisions getting held up, and thinner cards for fans. Seeing a pattern here?
2020: Covid leads to normalizing APEX Cards: This was the final evolution stage of the watered down UFC product. Now worrying about ticket sales isn't even a big concern and the UFC is able to produce cheap, low quality cards that a core base of fans will still inexplicably watch. The UFC doesn't like to negotiate/cater to big stars and the solution to their problem was to make the UFC brand itself the attraction. It has worked out for them evidently though as the watering down of cards has happened over so many years now that newer fans can't even tell the difference. If a fighter is ranked, if the announcers hype up, and if they're placed high on the card, people will buy it hook line and sinker. Just wait until the Netflix deal and PPV Buy-rates become a worry of the past...
There are obviously other notable things like the oversaturation of TUF, interim title belts, etc. but these to me are the core mistakes that led to the quality of the sport genuinely becoming weaker over time.
No single event marked the turning of the tide but if I had to pick a year, I would say 2013 was the year the peak started to dip into a downfall. Jones' outside the octagon behavior started to surface, GSP retired, Anderson Silva fell, the ranking systems debuted and Renan Barao became the first of many "P4P Kings", Cain Velasquez started holding the HW division hostage with his neverending injuries, WMMA came to the UFC, all major competition was long since merged... there were still some good times ahead but this was the first time I felt the bloom was officially started to come off the rose for the UFC IMHO.
There have been many peaks that usher in new fans but because the UFC has no respect for history and always focuses on "the next card being the best ever", I think many people get burned out when a lot of their favorites get older/get discarded and they lose interest. This would lead to many people claiming that their era of fandom was "the best" when in reality, it's usually just their nostalgia talking.
For context, I was a die hard fan from 2006-2019 (although I had watched casually before this and still followed for years after) so I witnessed a lot of the different "boom periods" and feel that I can give a fairly educated opinion as to when the sport actually started to decline in quality as opposed to when I personally started to lose interest. Trying to be as objective as possible though, I see these are being some of the critical points for when MMA started to go downhill:
2010: Shogun gets the first immediate rematch of the modern era: While I feel like this rematch was actually warranted, this set a bad precedent and ushered in the era when champions essentially had to be defeated twice in a row for a title change to really take place. This takes away all of the excitement of an upset, it burns the fans out with repetitive marketing, it holds up the division, and it usually leads to a viable name suddenly appearing "past their prime" with an 0-2 record which not only hurts them but makes the champion look less credible by beating someone who's "washed up". No one benefits from this lazy matchmaking.
2013: The UFC introduces its own ranking system: After years of shitting on the idea of rankings, the UFC finally created their own and sold it to us as the most important way of evaluating a fighter's worth. While this may seem silly, rankings really just became a lazy way of marketing cards without having to put in the effort to actually create stars. "What do you mean this is a weak card? We have the number 7 guy fighting the number 10 guy. You don't know shit about MMA!"
Rankings are completely subjective, they change frequently, and P4P is really just a meaningless marketing tool created to sell the small weight classes when they were extremely unpopular at the time. When this very fickle metric became the focus over actual fan investment in a star, MMA started to suffer. Rankings mean nothing if the matchmaking doesn't reflect them and seeing guys coming off of losses get title shots severely damages any crediblity this "sport" tries to project.
2013-2014: The number of cards per year jumps up by nearly 30%. 2012 was the first time a UFC PPV was full on cancelled because the co-main event was so weak that the card couldn't survive when the main event fell apart. You'd think this would be a cautionary tale to start increasing the quality of cards but this didn't stop the UFC from suddenly putting on 13 MORE CARDS in 2014 than they did in 2013 (an additional card was also scheduled but cancelled).
This was the era when we actually started to see multiple fight nights in 1 weekend (there has even 3 on 1 weekend!) which is the definition of oversaturation. Once this became the norm, people got used to having weaker quality cards as a regular occurence and events went from "must watch" to "skippable besides the main event". This is still often the case in modern day.
2014: UFC inks the Reebok deal: While many hated the generic look of the uniforms and how unfair the deal was to current fighters, I think many overlook how damaging this deal was to recruiting new elite talent to MMA. If you are a college wrestler with a degree, why the hell would you risk trying to make it as a professional MMA fighter when there is very little chance of making substantial money? The salaries for even the top MMA fighters are embarrassingly low compared to other sports, you are responsible for all of your own costs, and now you can't even make money off of your own brand? While this deal made the UFC a lot of money in the short term, it absolutely hurt the sport in the long run. Are we really seeing the best of the best when only a small fraction of athletes are willing/able to dedicate themselves to training full time? If full time members of the roster have to have full time jobs in order to support themselves, I have a hard time believing we're actually seeing fighters reaching their full potential. There is a reason why we are suddenly seeing an influx of talent from developing countries...
2016: Conor gets a LW title shot and the "money fight" era begins: GSP vs Penn was a special occasion and we didn't see a Champion vs Champion fight again for over 7 YEARS. This "money fight era" led to champions frequently taking long hiatuses, multiple divisions getting held up, and thinner cards for fans. Seeing a pattern here?
2020: Covid leads to normalizing APEX Cards: This was the final evolution stage of the watered down UFC product. Now worrying about ticket sales isn't even a big concern and the UFC is able to produce cheap, low quality cards that a core base of fans will still inexplicably watch. The UFC doesn't like to negotiate/cater to big stars and the solution to their problem was to make the UFC brand itself the attraction. It has worked out for them evidently though as the watering down of cards has happened over so many years now that newer fans can't even tell the difference. If a fighter is ranked, if the announcers hype up, and if they're placed high on the card, people will buy it hook line and sinker. Just wait until the Netflix deal and PPV Buy-rates become a worry of the past...
There are obviously other notable things like the oversaturation of TUF, interim title belts, etc. but these to me are the core mistakes that led to the quality of the sport genuinely becoming weaker over time.
No single event marked the turning of the tide but if I had to pick a year, I would say 2013 was the year the peak started to dip into a downfall. Jones' outside the octagon behavior started to surface, GSP retired, Anderson Silva fell, the ranking systems debuted and Renan Barao became the first of many "P4P Kings", Cain Velasquez started holding the HW division hostage with his neverending injuries, WMMA came to the UFC, all major competition was long since merged... there were still some good times ahead but this was the first time I felt the bloom was officially started to come off the rose for the UFC IMHO.
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Back when people still through UFC parties. I'm pretty sure those aren't a thing anymore.
No for real. I use to go to 30-40 people UFC parties. Good times. Even people that weren't into MMA went there and enjoyed themselves. Nick vs Silva was a huge party. Probably closer to 75 people showed up for that. But the last UFC party that I went to was probably Ronda vs Nunes. After that we stopped throwing them. Kinda just happened.
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This is a two part question in my head. When was the ufc at its peak is the ultimate question but the one we see is when was it most important to us
Well the former I guess you could say when the likes of McGregor, Lesnar, Rousey, etc were prime they were the biggest casual stars. I don't think it's that simple. The ufc machine will keep going and make due with what it has. Time will tell if any new "stars" will be generated. Time will tell if they keep profiting and selling out ppvs. But they are the heaviest backed and alpha mma promotion and that will never change imo
The question I saw, some of you saw, is probably closer to when we were younger and the sport captured our imagination the greatest. We would all say our 20s lmao. For me I'd recall going to BWW circa 2011
We've all grown up and at some point our love for the sport has to take the backseat for other things, but like me I'm always gonna be a fan
Well the former I guess you could say when the likes of McGregor, Lesnar, Rousey, etc were prime they were the biggest casual stars. I don't think it's that simple. The ufc machine will keep going and make due with what it has. Time will tell if any new "stars" will be generated. Time will tell if they keep profiting and selling out ppvs. But they are the heaviest backed and alpha mma promotion and that will never change imo
The question I saw, some of you saw, is probably closer to when we were younger and the sport captured our imagination the greatest. We would all say our 20s lmao. For me I'd recall going to BWW circa 2011
We've all grown up and at some point our love for the sport has to take the backseat for other things, but like me I'm always gonna be a fan
No, quite the opposite.
As in football (soccer, for you), NBA... the depth of talent has raised dramatically.
The bestestest would and will always great, no matter the era. GSP, DJ, AS would still be great today.
As it would Jordan or Shaq.
However, some legendary feats (10+ title defenses i.e.) will be considered statistical outliers from earlier stages, and probably never be achieved again. Like Wilt Chamberlain's stats or Russell 11 rings.
*All that said, I believe the best MMA fighter we've ever seen is still Jon Jones (and DJ, maybe?) and we'll need another generational talent to surpass him/them.
Messi was just 10 when Maradona retired.
As in football (soccer, for you), NBA... the depth of talent has raised dramatically.
The bestestest would and will always great, no matter the era. GSP, DJ, AS would still be great today.
As it would Jordan or Shaq.
However, some legendary feats (10+ title defenses i.e.) will be considered statistical outliers from earlier stages, and probably never be achieved again. Like Wilt Chamberlain's stats or Russell 11 rings.
*All that said, I believe the best MMA fighter we've ever seen is still Jon Jones (and DJ, maybe?) and we'll need another generational talent to surpass him/them.
Messi was just 10 when Maradona retired.
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MMA, just like boxing, is a sport that ebbs and flows.
By comparison, boxing was amazing in the 1920's-30's, declined in the 40's/50's, came back with a vengeance in the late 60's/70's, largely due to Ali, died for awhile, until Tyson burst onto the scene, etc etc. and on and on
Singular athlete sports are typically star driven.
Currently there are no huge stars in the UFC (at least on the Conor, Ronda, Chuck, Brock tip). As far as skill level MMA is at an all-time high, even if the competition tends to ebb and flow itself, depending on the division. Jones, Islam, Izzy, Aspinall and Topuria might be big in our little fight sphere, but outside it, no one cares.
Give it another couple years and there will be another world beater, or undeniable "presence", and people will call that the new Golden Age.
By comparison, boxing was amazing in the 1920's-30's, declined in the 40's/50's, came back with a vengeance in the late 60's/70's, largely due to Ali, died for awhile, until Tyson burst onto the scene, etc etc. and on and on
Singular athlete sports are typically star driven.
Currently there are no huge stars in the UFC (at least on the Conor, Ronda, Chuck, Brock tip). As far as skill level MMA is at an all-time high, even if the competition tends to ebb and flow itself, depending on the division. Jones, Islam, Izzy, Aspinall and Topuria might be big in our little fight sphere, but outside it, no one cares.
Give it another couple years and there will be another world beater, or undeniable "presence", and people will call that the new Golden Age.
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