Is shorinji kempo worth it?

S

sindu5673

White Belt
Joined
Aug 20, 2014
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Ok so I am back into martial arts some 20 years after quitting karate when I was 13. Since I am older now I wanted something different and after researching it I liked shorinji kempo's spiritual side and the good thing there was a dojo very close to my house. So I signed up and started practicing there some 3 months ago. It is a small almost all japanese dojo each session is attended by 5 to 8 students. At first I was pleased by it but I am now having some mixed feelings. First in this dojo students do not do free sparring. Only a couple of black belts free spar every once in a while. All we do is kihon basic techniques and pre-arranged sparring which is very unrealistic and telegraphed most of the time. Also shorinji kempo has no ground game and that is a weakness.
How are we supposed to learn fighting skills if we never actually practice fighting? I understand some will say producing great fighters isn't the goal but would I be only interested in the spiritual thing I would just join a temple. The problem is that like every martial art it has combat pretensions that is doesn't fulfill as it just mimics fighting moves a bit like tai chi chuan. Don't get me wrong I'm not planning on training for cage fight and am all for spirituality but I feel like this is way too unrealistic to me. What do you think? Am I wasting my time?
 
Just a warning you will not be getting positive responses here.
 
sindu5673 said:
Ok so I am back into martial arts some 20 years after quitting karate when I was 13. Since I am older now I wanted something different and after researching it I liked shorinji kempo's spiritual side and the good thing there was a dojo very close to my house. So I signed up and started practicing there some 3 months ago. It is a small almost all japanese dojo each session is attended by 5 to 8 students. At first I was pleased by it but I am now having some mixed feelings. First in this dojo students do not do free sparring. Only a couple of black belts free spar every once in a while. All we do is kihon basic techniques and pre-arranged sparring which is very unrealistic and telegraphed most of the time. Also shorinji kempo has no ground game and that is a weakness.
How are we supposed to learn fighting skills if we never actually practice fighting? I understand some will say producing great fighters isn't the goal but would I be only interested in the spiritual thing I would just join a temple. The problem is that like every martial art it has combat pretensions that is doesn't fulfill as it just mimics fighting moves a bit like tai chi chuan. Don't get me wrong I'm not planning on training for cage fight and am all for spirituality but I feel like this is way too unrealistic to me. What do you think? Am I wasting my time?
Click to expand...

Im glad you recognize that pre-arranged sparring is useless and infact it can be dangerous due to the fact that it will give you false-confidence in how well you can protect yourself.

Now as far as second part goes...What do you mean when you say spirituality???

Are you practicing methods like Mantras,Kundalini yoga ,meditation excersises that allows you to lucid dream or allows you to change the state of your mind?

If not then I am going to assume that the "Spirituality" of these type of martial arts are based on "morals" so really its not spiritualism your learning but rather a philosphy and morals+ pre-arranged movement.

My advice is for you to join a Kyokushin and or boxing gym. You will get tons of philopshy lessons as well as realistic contact sparring from both karate and boxing.

EDIT:

I see this thread getting bumped and I have changed my mind in a sense that, full contact sparring should be limited and drills/katas/forms are very important. You need forms to have correct mechanic but sparring is very good but can cause wear and tear. Balancing act is in effect.
 
Last edited:
Yes you are wasting your time. Seems like your goals include more than just philosophy but actual self-defense.

Kyokushin, boxing, Muay Thai would all be better for you imo.
 
You aren't training for competitive fighting, and at 33+ years of age, you are leaving the high risk age range for violent confrontations, so you need to ask yourself what you are actually training for. To me, it sounds like you are just interested in training, without any real goal--which is totally fine, by the way. It just means you are training for the enjoyment of it. If that's the case, it doesn't actually matter whether the training makes you a good fighter, or not, so long as you don't harbor any delusions about it.

The bottom line is; do you enjoy the training?

If "yes," then continue training.

If "no," then find something else you enjoy, and do that instead.
 
Honestly ts, just to follow up on my earlier comment as well as others. You should find a level headed instructor in any contact style like full contact karate,boxing,kickboxing and just let them know that you want to train but not interested in heavy sparring.

I am sure a level headed and competent coach will respect and understand your request and will have you spar with adequate contact and intensity.

If your interested in spiritualism, try Kundalini yoga or some type of meditation.
 
Honestly, I think something like TKD or Shotokan karate would be better suited for TS. A place that at a bare minimum does even point sparring would be better than where he's at now and still fulfill that Eastern philosophy/spirituality thing he's looking for (which I don't blame him for that either).
 
Sosuke Aizen said:
Honestly ts, just to follow up on my earlier comment as well as others. You should find a level headed instructor in any contact style like full contact karate,boxing,kickboxing and just let them know that you want to train but not interested in heavy sparring.

I am sure a level headed and competent coach will respect and understand your request and will have you spar with adequate contact and intensity.

If your interested in spiritualism, try Kundalini yoga or some type of meditation.
Click to expand...

You have a very limited understanding og spirituality. It's not only about deep meditation or accessing other so called fields. It's about calmness, reflection, depth of mind, awareness and concentration as well. It's not all about techniques.

Also, high intensity, full contact sports is not the sole answer. I personally train in Boxing, and used to do MMA, but there is more to life and training. I like to incorperate some Tai Chi and I like the smoothness of the forms.

Anyway, to the TS, you should decide for yourself. As another poster said, if you like and appreciate the training, keep doing it. Obviously, the lack of sparring will not make you the most effective fighter, or maybe even very good at all, so if you want to be a fighting machine, you should look at alternatives. Depends on your goals really.
That said, you could always try a mixture. Some MT, some Kempo or otherwise.

Shorinji Kempo, if sometimes slightly unrealistic, definintely seems to have some good techniques and a healthy mindset.
 
sindu5673 said:
Ok so I am back into martial arts some 20 years after quitting karate when I was 13. Since I am older now I wanted something different and after researching it I liked shorinji kempo's spiritual side and the good thing there was a dojo very close to my house. So I signed up and started practicing there some 3 months ago. It is a small almost all japanese dojo each session is attended by 5 to 8 students. At first I was pleased by it but I am now having some mixed feelings. First in this dojo students do not do free sparring. Only a couple of black belts free spar every once in a while. All we do is kihon basic techniques and pre-arranged sparring which is very unrealistic and telegraphed most of the time. Also shorinji kempo has no ground game and that is a weakness.
How are we supposed to learn fighting skills if we never actually practice fighting? I understand some will say producing great fighters isn't the goal but would I be only interested in the spiritual thing I would just join a temple. The problem is that like every martial art it has combat pretensions that is doesn't fulfill as it just mimics fighting moves a bit like tai chi chuan. Don't get me wrong I'm not planning on training for cage fight and am all for spirituality but I feel like this is way too unrealistic to me. What do you think? Am I wasting my time?
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like the instructor is your problem and not the style. Look around your area for more schools to try out because if the instructor is not clicking with you than fully committing to following his instruction will be difficult. Also, most striking styles have basically no ground fighting attached to them. Hence the moniker striking style.
 
Hey, if you want to learn how to kick and spring in and out, karate is good. If you want to learn how to fight, I recommend boxing.
 
I did shorinji kempo for 9 years before starting boxing and Muay Thai, I got up to 1st kyu which is one rank below black belt. My advice: don't waste your time.
 
sindu5673 said:
Ok so I am back into martial arts some 20 years after quitting karate when I was 13. Since I am older now I wanted something different and after researching it I liked shorinji kempo's spiritual side and the good thing there was a dojo very close to my house. So I signed up and started practicing there some 3 months ago. It is a small almost all japanese dojo each session is attended by 5 to 8 students. At first I was pleased by it but I am now having some mixed feelings. First in this dojo students do not do free sparring. Only a couple of black belts free spar every once in a while. All we do is kihon basic techniques and pre-arranged sparring which is very unrealistic and telegraphed most of the time. Also shorinji kempo has no ground game and that is a weakness.
How are we supposed to learn fighting skills if we never actually practice fighting? I understand some will say producing great fighters isn't the goal but would I be only interested in the spiritual thing I would just join a temple. The problem is that like every martial art it has combat pretensions that is doesn't fulfill as it just mimics fighting moves a bit like tai chi chuan. Don't get me wrong I'm not planning on training for cage fight and am all for spirituality but I feel like this is way too unrealistic to me. What do you think? Am I wasting my time?
Click to expand...

It sounds like you want to spar so this gym/dojo is a waste of time. Also, prearranged drills are useful but of course, isn't sparring.

I'm pretty sure most kickboxing or contact dojos have recreational types like you who want to train for fitness and spar. In fact, unless it's a hard core fighting gym, rec types make up the majority of paying customers.
 
BudoNoah said:
You aren't training for competitive fighting, and at 33+ years of age, you are leaving the high risk age range for violent confrontations, so you need to ask yourself what you are actually training for. To me, it sounds like you are just interested in training, without any real goal--which is totally fine, by the way. It just means you are training for the enjoyment of it. If that's the case, it doesn't actually matter whether the training makes you a good fighter, or not, so long as you don't harbor any delusions about it.

The bottom line is; do you enjoy the training?

If "yes," then continue training.

If "no," then find something else you enjoy, and do that instead.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought but I'm plenty older and I got attacked a couple weeks ago at home. Have not fought for years and I could not have avoided it, really woke me up.

Based on that, here's my take...

Go with the Muay Thai, seriously. Don't fool around with bullshit everyone knows is whack just to be different. I knew how to do everything I did before training MT (basic boxing) but it made me do it much better, he couldn't touch me.

Everything else is just too complicated with a lot of bullshit you don't need. If you can train MMA do that.

I think you will enjoy knowing that you can handle yourself for real, take satisfaction from that.
 
Last edited:
Some people love classes like this, where no sparring is done and all is rehearsing. that is ok with me, I mean, we must remember that the number one reason to practice a martial art in the modern world is to stay active (and thus not get obese). So, for sure doing this is positive for many people, it is a way to keep them active and happy.

But obviously you don't like it, so yeah, you should try something else. But, problem is, the inverse situation could happen, you get to a gym where sparring is too intense, and maybe that is not for you either. Which is probably true, because of your age, you probably work, so it wouldn't be good to start showing up for work with a black eye and so on, besides when you are 15-21 this makes you look cool but after 30 definitely not.

I also noticed you mentioned about grappling, well, most martial arts are either striking or grappling... you would really need to take an MMA class to do both, I mean, forget it.

Concluding, I think you should go for muay thai or kick boxing. A place with light sparring would be ideal.
 
I am 47. I hurt easier after kickboxing than I have and I take longer to heal. I usually limp a bit from shin damage. I like the sparring part but there is usually so much pad work that we only spar for 20 minutes and I am dead after 20 mins of pads at full power. In addition, the sparring gets heated and people throw with good power. I see no benefit to getting hit and resulting in headaches, dizzy spells or damage.

I do train karate in my home/yard (I sometimes train with others but I am done with schools with restrictive mentalities). I see it as a workout that will not help me defeat a great fighter but helps me stay fast, agile, flexible and athletic for my age. I do kata, jumping kicks, drills, shadow boxing, throws, sparring drills, weapons.... I intend on doing this until the air is out of my body.

Don't be persuaded by kids focusing only on fighting here. (preface this next point against MT/xboxing schools that only teach hitting and some sparring) Athleticism is BETTER with karate training (jumping kicks, rolls, complex kicking drills), flexibility is better (because they do things that work on them) and you have a hobby that you can learn and develop to ward off old age.
 
shorinji = shaolin written in japanese.

But the style look more like a stiff karate style.
 
Nippon shorinji kempo is an attempt to recreate shaolin kungfu (shorin is the japanese pronunciation of shaolin, and ji means temple) by combining karate and Japanese jujutsu (think "Aikido with attitude"). Nippon means Japan and kempo is the japanese pronunciation of the chinese word chuanfa -which we in the west mistakenly calls kungfu.
So basically the full name means "Japanese Shaolin temple kungfu"

In Japan it is intimately practised with a sect of Buddhism, to the point where it is often regarded as a religious practice. You can find it done without religious connections in Japan, but only very rarely. Outside of Japan it rarely has any religious connections.
Sidenote: they use the swastika as a symbol in Japan- due to its old Buddhist meaning, but outside of Japan they try to avoid using that symbol since the swastika in the west has a very different meaning since WW2.

Shorinji Kempo (in Japan) has almost no live fighting. They has a form of "demo" fighting where the fighters takes turns as the designated attacker and the designated defender. They hold tournaments where the fighters get scored points as a team and compared to other teams.



There are real sparring/fight matches, but apparently they are not a major part of the art or even the sport of shorinji kempo. Basically they look like odd point karate with lots of padding or bogu kumite -which is basically what it is.


One of the top Shorinji kempo fighters (top student and bodyguard to the shorinji kempo founder) wanted to try his skill in kyokushin tournaments in the early 80ies. He did ok, but was kicked out of Shorinji kempo for his troubles. He then formed a new style, Byakuren kempo karate, which retains most of shorinji kempo
 
shinkyoku said:
Nippon shorinji kempo is an attempt to recreate shaolin kungfu (shorin is the japanese pronunciation of shaolin, and ji means temple) by combining karate and Japanese jujutsu (think "Aikido with attitude"). Nippon means Japan and kempo is the japanese pronunciation of the chinese word chuanfa -which we in the west mistakenly calls kungfu.
So basically the full name means "Japanese Shaolin temple kungfu"

In Japan it is intimately practised with a sect of Buddhism, to the point where it is often regarded as a religious practice. You can find it done without religious connections in Japan, but only very rarely. Outside of Japan it rarely has any religious connections.
Sidenote: they use the swastika as a symbol in Japan- due to its old Buddhist meaning, but outside of Japan they try to avoid using that symbol since the swastika in the west has a very different meaning since WW2.

Shorinji Kempo (in Japan) has almost no live fighting. They has a form of "demo" fighting where the fighters takes turns as the designated attacker and the designated defender. They hold tournaments where the fighters get scored points as a team and compared to other teams.



There are real sparring/fight matches, but apparently they are not a major part of the art or even the sport of shorinji kempo. Basically they look like odd point karate with lots of padding or bogu kumite -which is basically what it is.


One of the top Shorinji kempo fighters (top student and bodyguard to the shorinji kempo founder) wanted to try his skill in kyokushin tournaments in the early 80ies. He did ok, but was kicked out of Shorinji kempo for his troubles. He then formed a new style, Byakuren kempo karate, which retains most of shorinji kempo
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,280,171
Messages
58,263,215
Members
175,986
Latest member
BloodandBeer

Share this page

Back
Top