Is shorinji kempo worth it?

Shinkyoku, you really know a lot about kempo....

great post!
 
Even though it doesn't have "do" in the name, from what Shinkyoku described it does seem like a "do" type of art. Something to practice as a way of life for personal development, physical fitness, sense of community with others at the dojo and so on.
 
hi,
i know it's way too late to write a response to this thread but i'm writing it anyway.
I was a Second degree black belt in shorinji kempo for 16 years until i resigned in 2002 due to some organizational matter. i recently rejoined because i love it very much. It doesn't mean i dont like any other martial arts. Let me share my experience as a true witness of 'MA' differences.
During my vacuum years from SK I tried a few MAs, including arnis Doce Pares style, learnt from a retired SAS officer (I joined a world tournament in 2007 and got a bronze model in Kulatta, no armor heavy weight division), a kyokushin spar club (and did OK according to my fellow sparring mates), Muaythai, MMA, kenjutsu, Aikido and Japanese Jujutsu). except for Arnis and Muaythai (1 and 2 years), all the MA i joined were not too regular, i only occasionally attend classes.
If you are into practical fight course that you can learn how to fight quick, then kyokushin (not shotokan) and muaythai are good but not necessarily right for you. Eventhough Kyokushin has a weird tournament rule that you cannot hit in the face, but its kihon are meant to be used in a practical fighting. However considering you start at a later age, they punch on the chest with full power is not good for you. Remember no kyokushin practitioners still exist at later age, they pensioned, while those shotokan who draws punches without touching and okinawan karatekas who don't spar are still very healthy at age 80-90 :) but if you want to train good spar dont take shotokan, their sparring/kumite are not realistic at all.

SK has too vast of techniques, not they were originally taken from monks who have to defend themselves against grabs and mostly to the arms/wrist which you don't really see too often in modern days. If people want to hurt you these days, they will just punch/kick you or stab you. Their free spar method is the randori and only in indonesia we train randori intensively, we have randori clubs also here.
Why SK people are less trained in kumite/randori, because we have those locks and techniques to study (some are not relevant to modern fighting anyways), but they are part of the whole curriculum. Kyokushin people dont have that. they train to fight only. Two hours of class they only train kumite and very little Kata.

My points are:
1. if you think SK is not for you then quit, i dont know which country are you but SK dojos in some countries are very bad in randori unlike Indonesians who love randori and good at it
2. Do not join practical martial art class because their practical techniques are not usable anyways, what you do in real street fight mainly use good kihon: fast and strong punch, kick, agility, reflexs, and guts which you get from a good (not mcdojo) traditional martial classes regardless what techniques they teach
 
Ogata said:
Im glad you recognize that pre-arranged sparring is useless and infact it can be dangerous due to the fact that it will give you false-confidence in how well you can protect yourself.

Now as far as second part goes...What do you mean when you say spirituality???

Are you practicing methods like Mantras,Kundalini yoga ,meditation excersises that allows you to lucid dream or allows you to change the state of your mind?

If not then I am going to assume that the "Spirituality" of these type of martial arts are based on "morals" so really its not spiritualism your learning but rather a philosphy and morals+ pre-arranged movement.

My advice is for you to join a Kyokushin and or boxing gym. You will get tons of philopshy lessons as well as realistic contact sparring from both karate and boxing.
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pre-arranged sparring is just another term for drills, which pretty much every martial art or combat sport uses some sort of preset two person drill.
 
i think it really depends on why you're there are you looking for self defense, or getting into competition and combat sport? then the lack of free sparring is to be expected. if you'd like to really test the waters with your sensei just tell him at some point you'd like to get into the point sparring scene, and see if he'll allow you to work with others in free sparring. it's damn hard to find karate tournaments/competitions that aren't point sparring and that's what most dojos know and are comfortable with anyway so that's your best bet. if you take that approach and they shut you down flat out, then the sensei doesn't care about what you want as a student and customer, which pretty much just means you should leave. if he says ok, maybe you can use that to slowly transition into making sparring a bit more of a norm in the dojo. have other kyu ranks shown any interest in the sparring?
 
Corgistampede said:
Sounds to me like the instructor is your problem and not the style. Look around your area for more schools to try out because if the instructor is not clicking with you than fully committing to following his instruction will be difficult. Also, most striking styles have basically no ground fighting attached to them. Hence the moniker striking style.
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karate has standing grappling and some ground fighting in the katas, whether or not they're taught at all varies wildly between dojos.
 
wow didn't look at the original post's date...someone necro'd and i just posted after reading the posts and the replies lol damn i they got me.
 
JohnPJones said:
pre-arranged sparring is just another term for drills, which pretty much every martial art or combat sport uses some sort of preset two person drill.
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My post was from 5 years ago and from that time I have changed my mind. I now believe in drills and instilling proper body mechanics since it helps avoid bad habits.
 
Ogata said:
My post was from 5 years ago and from that time I have changed my mind. I now believe in drills and instilling proper body mechanics since it helps avoid bad habits.
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ya i didn't realize how old the topic was when i replied to you, i noted the age of the topic after like two other posts/replies lol. my bad
 
Ogata said:
My post was from 5 years ago and from that time I have changed my mind. I now believe in drills and instilling proper body mechanics since it helps avoid bad habits.
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Armies drill for a reason. They don't just go for a field exercise and do nothing but charge in and bang.
 
sindu5673 said:
Ok so I am back into martial arts some 20 years after quitting karate when I was 13. Since I am older now I wanted something different and after researching it I liked shorinji kempo's spiritual side and the good thing there was a dojo very close to my house. So I signed up and started practicing there some 3 months ago. It is a small almost all japanese dojo each session is attended by 5 to 8 students. At first I was pleased by it but I am now having some mixed feelings. First in this dojo students do not do free sparring. Only a couple of black belts free spar every once in a while. All we do is kihon basic techniques and pre-arranged sparring which is very unrealistic and telegraphed most of the time. Also shorinji kempo has no ground game and that is a weakness.
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I came here to learn about possible striking styles, being a Judo novice right now. My first reaction to your post about shorinji kempo you say, which I have never heard of, is that I still know absolutely nothing about it.

sindu5673 said:
How are we supposed to learn fighting skills if we never actually practice fighting? I understand some will say producing great fighters isn't the goal but would I be only interested in the spiritual thing I would just join a temple. The problem is that like every martial art it has combat pretensions that is doesn't fulfill as it just mimics fighting moves a bit like tai chi chuan. Don't get me wrong I'm not planning on training for cage fight and am all for spirituality but I feel like this is way too unrealistic to me. What do you think? Am I wasting my time?
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I just posted some similar intro material about judo. The spiritual side I gleaned was to make martial art practice a civilized activity. The members in my club aren't there to beat up people, but to learn and get something out of the experience. We have the very competitive types too, of course.

On the realism, I find it hard to believe that Judo / grappling can handle striking opponents consistently. But right now, the concept of not opposing brute force with brute force but rather the 'gentle way' makes a ton of sense. Particularly for self defense when one is outmatched by size & strength.
 
The Polish Pounder said:
Just a warning you will not be getting positive responses here.
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I would have to say the majority of the commentary is biased against this style.

Frode Falch said:
shorinji = shaolin written in japanese.

But the style look more like a stiff karate style.
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In defense of the kempo style, the presentation here seems superficial. Talking around the appearances.

Having said that and based on what's shown, I would agree along the lines of your commentary. Comes across as a lot of flashy, fancy techniques. Demonstrations of that instead of the actual fighting type training you highlighted in your recent Thread. I'm not convinced either way. But @ 1st glance, this flashy-demo kempo doesn't hold appeal to me as solid training for actual striking.
 
rizal djohan said:
defend themselves against grabs and mostly to the arms/wrist
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Actually exactly this should be taught from light drills with cooperative partners till with 100% with completely uncooperative opponents.
 
shinkyoku said:
As a kyokushin guy. Bullshit!
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Since you posted on this narco thread...

In the first clip you posted in your old comment, those guys are taking high speed break falls on wood floors....

I don't know where any of you other guys come from, but that's about the hardest technique you can master. I'm at a Judo club now where we(they) train on crash pads and the impact is no where near as brutal as that first hard wood floor Ukemi.

That's all you guys need to see, lineage Shorinji Kempo Waza is way better than 99% of anything trained in America. If you disagree post a clip of Tai Otoshi-rough equivalent to the Ukemi for that first throw-on a wood floor, then we'll talk about how tough your training is.

As I've said before, back east I trained...and survived....with a San Dan in Okinawan Kempo and GoJu Ryu who transitioned over to our Judo club after mustering out of the USMC. Good lineage is fucking brutal and no one who's had contact with one and trained American full contact/Randori/Rolling will ever question it's "street effectiveness"
 
CFGroup said:
Since you posted on this narco thread...

In the first clip you posted in your old comment, those guys are taking high speed break falls on wood floors....

I don't know where any of you other guys come from, but that's about the hardest technique you can master. I'm at a Judo club now where we(they) train on crash pads and the impact is no where near as brutal as that first hard wood floor Ukemi.

That's all you guys need to see, lineage Shorinji Kempo Waza is way better than 99% of anything trained in America. If you disagree post a clip of Tai Otoshi-rough equivalent to the Ukemi for that first throw-on a wood floor, then we'll talk about how tough your training is.

As I've said before, back east I trained...and survived....with a San Dan in Okinawan Kempo and GoJu Ryu who transitioned over to our Judo club after mustering out of the USMC. Good lineage is fucking brutal and no one who's had contact with one and trained American full contact/Randori/Rolling will ever question it's "street effectiveness"
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Did you just claim that it’s like super hard to learn break falls on hardwood floors?
 
JohnPJones said:
Did you just claim that it’s like super hard to learn break falls on hardwood floors?
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Yup and to do them well for years up to BB!

Post your clip bro, let's see what u got if u disagree...
 
CFGroup said:
Yup and to do them well for years up to BB!

Post your clip bro, let's see what u got if u disagree...
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as a green belt in HS i literally passed out in the gym after giving blood, and a dojo sister saw it and said it was perfectly like we were taught in class.

i was also doing rolls with a running start on tile and sidewalks back then...for really no good reason.

it's not actually that hard to do a break fall on hardwood floors. that's something that you should be plenty capable of 5th or 6th kyu.
 
JohnPJones said:
as a green belt in HS i literally passed out in the gym after giving blood, and a dojo sister saw it and said it was perfectly like we were taught in class.

i was also doing rolls with a running start on tile and sidewalks back then...for really no good reason.

it's not actually that hard to do a break fall on hardwood floors. that's something that you should be plenty capable of 5th or 6th kyu.
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Than post a clip...

Chicken aren't u.

"....in the gym after giving blood, and a dojo sister saw it and said it was perfectly like we were taught in class"

U r claiming as u passed out your feet went over your head in basically a armless cart wheel?

What is this a fucking Loony Toon's bit?

U don't even know what a breakfall is....not a back fall....

Breakfall dummy
tenor.gif


U did that "passing out"?

Okey Dokey


If it's that easy on hardwood floors u should have posted a clip already.
 
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