Is poverty an inevitable byproduct of human society?

[shunyata]

So could you and the other 1.2 billion doofuses living in developed countries. This was two years ago but it was estimated we need $40 billion a year to end world poverty. Which is about $30 a year per person living in developed countries, which is $2.50 a month. I'm sure knowing that you and the other 1.2 billion doofuses will get together and make it happen, except you won't. You will go on an internet karate forum and talk about how the rich and the powerful could have one something about it. But wait, how did they become so rich and powerful? Didn't we give them our money? Couldn't we have given that money or even a fraction of that money to charity? Yes we could have, we just chose not to.

You are welcome for the education, the pleasure is all yours.

Every fucking time that opportunity was marketed to the working class, it was pocketed by the exploitation class.

WAKE UP SON

Edit: I wasn't sure if this was the war room yet at this point, but I can't delete the truth in an edit.

There's no way in fuck the thread was headed anywhere but war room based on the title.

 

[avenue94]

You would have to restructure everything. Basically World War 3 AND it would have to result in the PEOPLE rising up and throwing out all the current corrupt politicians, WEF, UN etc and create the same basic scenario as USA 1776 where a society was formed with he express intent of eliminating eliminating avoiding corruption.

Comically ahistorical understanding of the US or its birth. Slavery and any litany of issues make it pretty clear the US was not founded to eliminate corruption.

Is your poverty relative or absolute?

It's pretty funny that almost no one in this thread has tried to define poverty before arguing that it is/isn't inevitable.

 

[HereticBD]

As long as we value people by how much paper they can make, yes.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Yes. Greed is inherent to human beings. Poverty naturally follows.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Came to post this.

Poverty is relative, and therefore will always exist.

"Poor" in the 21st century US, for example, would have been working class or better 100 years before.

People tend to only look up. We generally only compare ourselves to those that have at least as much, if not more, than we do.

Most of our impoverished are fat, warm and dry.

 

[b-hop]

The problem has never been that poor people are too hungry.

It has always been that powerful people want too much.


Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos could get together right now and effectively end world hunger while still being wealthy as fuck.

The PR they'd get from the move would be INSANE. If they were more evil than they already are, but smarter, they'd probably have done it yesterday. If they had any ethics whatsoever, they'd also have done it yesterday.

No they couldn't. How would they be able to finance food for a +1 billion people for a consistency of time?

 

[shunyata]

No they couldn't. How would they be able to finance food for a +1 billion people for a consistency of time?

Invest in non profit agriculture.

 

[GSP_37]

I feel like many of the world's biggest problems would be reduced if there was better public education, identifying people who have the 7 Sins and do something about them before they grow up to become criminals. Too many adults have pure shit character and some are good at hiding it.

 

[GSP_37]

We have more than enough resources for every human on this planet to have food, shelter and basic medical care.

The problem is corruption and government. As much as they want to sell you on the idea that government is trying to make thing better, many politicians depend on having people feel like they need the government to fix their problems.

To make it worse, society is definitely going the wrong way in the aspects of this situation which matter. Wealth gap is bigger than ever, war and crime is displacing large amounts of people and politicians are more interested in using those people for political points than to do anything to solve the problems.

You would have to restructure everything. Basically World War 3 AND it would have to result in the PEOPLE rising up and throwing out all the current corrupt politicians, WEF, UN etc and create the same basic scenario as USA 1776 where a society was formed with he express intent of eliminating eliminating avoiding corruption.

I recently watched an episode of Japanese drama Dragon Zakura 2 about this unorthodox lawyer who coaches no hope lost cause shit students into being able to pass entrance exam to get into prestigous university. No idea when they made this particular season, but it's very relevant today. In one scene when the shit students are an angry mob in hallway talking shit, he tells them basically they're stupid for wanting to continue to be stupid because the government wants to continue doing whatever they want and want the public masses to be stupid so no one will notice what they're doing and no one will question them. If they want to get ahead, they need to become educated.

This reminded me of the uneducated dumbshits believing whatever ridiculous bullshit despite all the evidence to the contrary.

In the local news, there's often local stories about some big shot in some governmental organization busted for spending government money on their own lavish lifestyle, same for local union boss and his family, prosecutor getting kickbacks in exchange for punishing a former employee for suing them. One popular mayor was busted for using taxpayer money on his own personal items. One police chief was caught on camera reversing into a parked motorcycle then fleeing the scene and then his underlings kidnapped and interrogated another cop related to the incident. Multiple government dept employees busted for accepting bribes for backlogged building permits.

 

[jeff7b9]

I recently watched an episode of Japanese drama Dragon Zakura 2 about this unorthodox lawyer who coaches no hope lost cause shit students into being able to pass entrance exam to get into prestigous university. No idea when they made this particular season, but it's very relevant today. In one scene when the shit students are an angry mob in hallway talking shit, he tells them basically they're stupid for wanting to continue to be stupid because the government wants to continue doing whatever they want and want the public masses to be stupid so no one will notice what they're doing and no one will question them. If they want to get ahead, they need to become educated.

This reminded me of the uneducated dumbshits believing whatever ridiculous bullshit despite all the evidence to the contrary.

In the local news, there's often local stories about some big shot in some governmental organization busted for spending government money on their own lavish lifestyle, same for local union boss and his family, prosecutor getting kickbacks in exchange for punishing a former employee for suing them. One popular mayor was busted for using taxpayer money on his own personal items. One police chief was caught on camera reversing into a parked motorcycle then fleeing the scene and then his underlings kidnapped and interrogated another cop related to the incident. Multiple government dept employees busted for accepting bribes for backlogged building permits.

Dragon Zakura 2

Interesting. Is it in English?
______________________________________

Anyway, yeah, it is like 2 parallel realities going on right now.

My in laws follow mainstream media news like it is their religion.

They believe they live in a world where the government is the good guys along with all the 3 character agencies and that everyone on TV is working together to guide us to utopia.

I ... disagree.

I have watched the world go from a place where I was among a relatively small group of people that had figured out that what a lot of the people consider "news" was heavily manipulated propaganda...

but 20 years ago, they were at least discreet about it


Now there is just widespread out in the open corruption everywhere. The government and media openly rob you blind and piss on you and tell you it is raining. And my inlaws just nod and grab an umbrella and a raincoat.


I homeschooled my kids during covid and sent them back WAY ahead of grade level across the boards with a good understanding of the world and their constitutional rights and a decent vrasp on civics... but as they spent more time in public school I am seeing them slip a little or say DUMB SHIT that when I ask them to reason thru why they take that stance they can't do it.

Public school is basically complacency and obedience training.

 

[GSP_37]

Dragon Zakura 2 was on the local Japanese channel in Japanese with English subtitles. I'm sure it's subtitled elsewhere.

 

[Gene Tunney]

Poverty is a sign of disfunction in society.

In America, with all of our functions and disfunctions, we have moved towards hyperpoliticism.

As a result, groups of people will be in a state of perpetual conflict, stunting the natural volition of societal development (established by classical liberalism, advanced by balanced leaders).

Our only hope resides with the filter of time (distant future).

 

[Michaelangelo]

Inevitable part of wealth

Unless everyone is on an even playing field with equal income in some alternate dimension economic reality

 

[no fat chicks]

We should be living in a post scarcity age, but instead idiots have allowed us to be living through another gilded age.

 

[Hdfi]

80% biological, 20% cultural.

 

[USA!USA!]

There are SO many factors involved it is hard to definitively say one or 2 reasons are why it exists. It’s partly opportunity and partly DNA based I’m sure.

That’s before you even add in additional factors like violence and drug abuse in those communities which complicate things further.. and I’m sure there are many more.

It’s a multifaceted complex issue that is difficult to simplify. There are no easy answers or realistic fixes. It seems like it will always be a problem in large human societies.

 

[Cartiac]

It has always been that powerful people want too much.

That is freaking hilarious and extremely pathetic at the same time. Please tell me how much I am allowed to earn before you deem me as having too much.

Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos could get together right now and effectively end world hunger while still being wealthy as fuck.

The PR they'd get from the move would be INSANE. If they were more evil than they already are, but smarter, they'd probably have done it yesterday. If they had any ethics whatsoever, they'd also have done it yesterday.

The world must be very tough for you or maybe actually very great with such a limited mental capacity. If humans were anywhere near as simple minded as you we would have gone extinct a long, long time ago. If you are actually interested in learning why what you say doesn't work for many reasons, look up Bill Gates. He explains why the world does not work that way and why your claim is not anywhere close to being in the realm of reality. If it was possible to fix even basic problems by just throwing money at it he would have done it. He also explains why even if all of his money was taken away and given to people like you he would earn it back in a short amount of time.

 

[BigDeadFreak]

The problem has never been that poor people are too hungry.

It has always been that powerful people want too much.


Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos could get together right now and effectively end world hunger while still being wealthy as fuck.

The PR they'd get from the move would be INSANE. If they were more evil than they already are, but smarter, they'd probably have done it yesterday. If they had any ethics whatsoever, they'd also have done it yesterday.

They could end it for a generation or two but then it would come back.

 

[lsa]

But we need people to make those sweet Air Jordans bruh

Cant you do it?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Came to post this.

Poverty is relative, and therefore will always exist.

"Poor" in the 21st century US, for example, would have been working class or better 100 years before.

People tend to only look up. We generally only compare ourselves to those that have at least as much, if not more, than we do.

Well, except that about half the population has no income at all.

In developed countries with market-based economies, poverty in the sense of not having enough to provide basic needs is a matter of no incomes rather than low incomes. The way we do it, about half the population (kids, the elderly, the disabled, college students--and we generally target a certain portion of the workforce being unemployed to keep inflation in check) is not expected to work or have above-poverty-level incomes if they do, but a large portion of that half is taken care of because of social relations with people in the other half. But because of the natural shape of income distribution in a market, that's going to leave somewhere between a quarter and a fifth of the population in poverty pre-tax and transfer (and that's true in all developed countries, though taxes and transfers and thus poverty rates vary a lot).

So yes, some level of poverty is inevitable in a market-based economy, but developed countries are rich enough to make transfers large enough to eliminate poverty. In America, elderly poverty is about 45% pre-transfer and under 10% post-transfer. We don't do nearly as well at fixing poverty with other vulnerable groups, though we saw how we can (the child tax credit cut child poverty in half).