Is LNP objectively any worse than slappy boxing and wall stalling?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by ethanfranklin, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. ethanfranklin

    ethanfranklin Banned Banned

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    Fans will often boo the ground game, because its two guys on the floor locked in a war of edges, and often stalemating for the most part.

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    Im a little bit fucked up, so i like to imagine im watching crouching tiger, hidden dragon, and they are flying through the air, or some shit.

    [​IMG]

    ^The Jokers RNC just werent the same without make up.

    Unfortunately, for a lot of UFC fans, it looks a lot more like that directors other great success - Brokeback mountain.

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    Explaining the wall game to a boxing friend, i remember telling him, the thing you need to understand, is you are watching a close game, and if one of them makes a mistake, the fight will be over.

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    "...man, i prefer boxing. Theres something sweet about a knock out..." goes the reply.

    And the reply has been summed up by "go watch that then" for as long as i can remember.

    Same with wrestling. "Go back to WWE".

    Only times are changing, and point fighting boxers, and wall game merchants are assuredly next in line, after those dirty LNPers, have been purged from "the big org".

    In boxing, predominant point fighters like Mayweather have a degree of lineage and pedigree in the sport. Their art is appreciated by a confident pedigree of fighting.

    LNP can be abated with a stand up, if it truly is stalling.

    The point based boxing game is interesting over 12 rounds, but seems like an impovershed "experience" over 3.

    Walling your opponent is a fascinating game of edges, that can turn to a KO as quick as Frank Mir is unable to say "tap". But again, it is for the most part unpopular. Its an art that can also be broken up with an intervention, if it stalemates.

    Are these two arts in any way objectively better than a marginal ground game?

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    And doesnt it all beat the shit out of two guys banging like retards, in a school yard windmill competition?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  2. Roger FedorAIR

    Roger FedorAIR It ain't easy being white Senior Moderator

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    [​IMG]
     
  3. To be honest, lnp is a bit of an outdated term. Unless fighters in mount are dealing damage, refs usually stand them up. I.e. shields / maia. A lot of the times you see a fight hit the ground people are quick to call lnp even if the guy is doing gnp. I.e. Carmont / costa.

    Wall and stall is more common I find, refs will let it go for a while to give guys chances for a td.

    sloppy boxing is extremely common however and in my opinion way more annoying to watch.
     
  4. TampaBayBoxer**

    TampaBayBoxer** Banned Banned

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    This was the most worthless, poorly written piece of shit post I have ever read on this site. You are a **** for posting this, asshole.
     
  5. melvinj0

    melvinj0 Gold Belt

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    I prefer to watch LnP than Wall N Stall tbh.
     
  6. mma midwest fan

    mma midwest fan Purple Belt

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    In addition to wall and stall, I have also observed MMA fighters who use a somewhat tentative/rangey/conservative/defensive standup strategy to win on points. They are not at all going for the finish or the knockout. This bores me as well. Yes, I'm sure there is often great technique involved, but that doesn't mean I can't be bored with it.
     
  7. ethanfranklin

    ethanfranklin Banned Banned

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    Agreed.

    That would be your post.

    Which part of the OP would you like help with fren?
     
  8. Fruits

    Fruits Purple Belt

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    LnP sucks.

    I think what you're referring to is a grappling heavy match where both guys are constantly active.

    There's always a place for a good grappling match in MMA, as there always should be, so long as the strategy isn't to just pin a guy down (oddly enough which is the objective in pro wrestling and actual wrestling).

    You know, like grappling in order to try to submit the opponent (via tapout), (T)KO the opponent via striking, or improve your position to hopefully accomplish one of those two previously mentioned things.

    That's why I appreciate guys like Jacare and Chael, but can't stand fighters like Lay Guida and Jake Shields.

    Also, wall stalling is probably worse, which guys like Shields and that one Republican guy cut by the UFC who is in the WSOF do. The latter situation in their latest WSOF match was one of the worst things I've seen on television.
     
  9. TampaBayBoxer**

    TampaBayBoxer** Banned Banned

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  10. ethanfranklin

    ethanfranklin Banned Banned

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    Shields v Maia was one great MMA grappler, vs a better one, imho.

    Honestly, it was two great guys, and one was better.

    I dont really see any other way of looking at it.

    I own my words.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  11. Cygnus-X

    Cygnus-X Red Belt

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    It's not.

    People just live with this fantasy that if we just eliminated this or changed the rule to this then all matches would be awesome. Which is not true. There will always be boring matches in every sport.

    NBA has a lot of boring matches.
    NHL has a lot of boring matches.
    NFL has a lot of boring matches.
    MLB never has anything but boring matches.
     
  12. TampaBayBoxer**

    TampaBayBoxer** Banned Banned

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    "Unfortunately for a lot of UFC fans, it looks a lot more like that directors other great success - Brokeback mountain." - Explain this. And then question your need to be posting anything online, ever.
     
  13. ethanfranklin

    ethanfranklin Banned Banned

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    Some people hate LNP and recoil at the sight of two guys locked in an embrace on the floor. Some of these people buy tickets to UFC. I question your ability to read basic prose, with a degree of imagination, and understand the concepts and arguments being made, on an adult level.

    Your first post was an absolute disgrace, and you will not be editing my thread son.

    You might want to think twice about an appeal to intellectualism, when your counter argument features the highlight "You are a **** for posting this, asshole.", and the dude you are addressing is using words like abate.

    You should abate "Tampon Bay Boxer". You are embarrassing "you'self".
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  14. Andrusz

    Andrusz Purple Belt

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    Best response yet.
     
  15. SuperNerd

    SuperNerd Off Season Mode.

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    In the UFC, I've found Randy vs Vera(wall n stall) more upsetting than Kongo vs Marello(lnp)

    But, could have been the names.
     
  16. Seven30

    Seven30 Brown Belt

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    Terrible, narrow-minded generalizations of "boxing" & "grappling" aficionados, but I see where you're going with this....
     
  17. Te Huna Matata

    Te Huna Matata Red Belt

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    Agreed...clinch fucking is the worst.
     
  18. Brandon Taylor

    Brandon Taylor Brown Belt Professional Fighter

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    I hate fights where they are pinned against the cage the whole time. They need to break them up quicker and if they go right back break them up right away. The break up is worthless if they just go right back to the cage. Unless you are actively working for the takedown or throwing legit strikes then break it up.
     
  19. BigFatUnderwear

    BigFatUnderwear Black Belt

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    same here
     
  20. tenniswhiz

    tenniswhiz Steel Belt

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    I have no problem with LnP. At least the guy on top got the TD, and is controlling his opponent on the ground from (very slightly) superior position.
    You can't really argue the result of a LnP decision.

    I hate the other stuff. Wall'n'Stall, patty cake, and what I F'N hate the most are the "surprise" TD's that guys like Edgar and MM constantly use to "dominate".
    You could say Chuck, Franklin, and Bisping all used them against Wand.
    If you don't want to fight on the ground, then please don't take the guy down.
    If you can't control he guy on the ground and he escapes two seconds later, then why bother with the TD?
    And Rogan and Goldie, please STFU with the "that was huge!" crap after one of these irrelevant, pointless, random, surprise TD's.
    I wish there was a way to remove these kinds of TD's from the scoring entirely. Like a 10 second rule, if he escapes less than 10 seconds after the TD, the judges shouldn't score it.
     

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