Opinion Is Jimmy Dore a Useful Idiot for the Right?

[The Diplomat]

This thread has generated well over 100 replies in only a few hours from people across the political spectrum. Regardless of how we feel about his views and how he expresses them and the repercussions of that, he's far from irrelevant. People know who he is and they feel some kind of way about him and want to talk about it. Hence this thread.

I mean, facts are facts. But still.

 

[deviake]

It's more about messaging, focus and how he's currently being used and who his audience is and is turning into. You can see the differences more and more between someone like him and Kyle Kulinski, for instance.

The difference him and left wing commentators and intellectuals is notable. I think they handle left wing criticisms of liberals/liberal politicians better and are more grounded and nuanced.

I go back and forth with Dore. I think to some degree he is a useful idiot to the right, on the other hand a lot of his criticisms have merit. He's very acerbic and angry which can muddle the message, but even after finding myself shaking my head at some of his rants (like how hard he's went on Bernie) I later see that he was correct even if his framing is off. He seems to think that going on tucker exposes left perspective to the right and that criticizing what should be his own "team" from the left gives the left credibility. I think there's merit to this but the degree to which he goes scorched earth on even progressive politicians (not that they're above reproach certainly, they should be held to the fire and called out, politics shouldn't be about feelings or personality) to the point of kinda defeating the purpose in my opinion. He's also guilty of false equivalence even when he's correct in his criticisms of democrats. He's too binary at times.

Yeah, I don't doubt that he's ideologically on the left. I have an issue with him strategically, it seems more and more like he's being used as a useful idiot by the right. I wonder what his end game is here...

I feel the same and I wonder if he or anyone near him understands this.

 

[Trotsky]

Not that across Tucker Carlson tbh. I tend to ignore the Fox talking heads

I don't know what this means. You should stop by the GB thread in the Sports Bar.

Some of my hot takes:

1. Allen Lazard sucks. He understands the playbook, but he's slow, soft, and has no YAC ability
2. ILB is still a weak point. Drafting Patrick Queen or another coverage backer would have been key.
3. If EQ gets healthy, he's our sleeper. Apparently he's still not fully practicing, though, so he might be done.
4. Davante is the most overrated receiver in the NFL. His Y/TGT is not only far below the other top receivers: it's outside the top 50.

 

[Trotsky]

See you take a lesser of two evils approach, but not everyone thinks that way. From Jimmy's perspective, evil is evil.

I take a pragmatic approach, yes, but that's because I want to preserve electoral politics. With the amount of wealth that's already concentrated in the United States, there is no way that revolutionary politics can work out.

Your position is to support this terrible party anyway for harm reduction. Jimmy's is to burn it down and start over. Which may be extreme, but is completely different than joining the right.

No, my position is to positively influence the only viable apparatus for change. Which has been done. The Democratic Party is far better than it was 4 years ago. If Jimmy wanted to "burn it down and start over" he would be addressing the contradictions that distort it: not engaging in partisan propaganda against it and giving the far-worse alternative a free ride.

 

[blaseblah]

Gave up on Dore a long time ago. He is as big a grifter as anyone on the actual right. With the Hill's Rising really picking up steam and giving him a run for his money in the grift Olympics. As a progressive it's sickening to see. But the strategy is clear with both shows:

1. Offer very rare and very tepid criticisms of Trump and the GOP (This maintains the right-wing viewership.)

2. Attack neoliberal establishment dems sharply and relentlessly. (This is red meat for the right-wing and grows that viewership base. It has the added bonus of making progressives mad at the party and so potentially not voting for Biden giving Trump a better shot at victory in November.)

Rising criticizes both Republicans and Democrats. I think the word you're looking for is less biased. You just don't like them attacking your side. I'm sure you prefer the propaganda machine.

 

[blaseblah]

I take a pragmatic approach, yes, but that's because I want to preserve electoral politics. With the amount of wealth that's already concentrated in the United States, there is no way that revolutionary politics can work out.



No, my position is to positively influence the only viable apparatus for change. Which has been done. The Democratic Party is far better than it was 4 years ago. If Jimmy wanted to "burn it down and start over" he would be addressing the contradictions that distort it: not engaging in partisan propaganda against it and giving the far-worse alternative a free ride.

There's a few more lefties in office since 2016 but Dore just watched those same lefties vote for a corporate bailout. He's also older and more cynical than most of us.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Rising criticizes both Republicans and Democrats. I think the word you're looking for is less biased. You just don't like them attacking your side. I'm sure you prefer the propaganda machine.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Compare the number of segments Ball (the progressive) does slamming the democratic party to the number of segments Saagar (the conservative) does slamming the GOP. The agenda of the Rising producers and the paper arm's chairman (Finkelstein) is obvious.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Compare the number of segments Ball (the progressive) does slamming the democratic party to the number of segments Saagar (the conservative) does slamming the GOP. The agenda of the Rising producers and the paper arm's chairman (Finkelstein) is obvious.

Nothing against Krystal Ball, but I'd have to agree and they're getting progressively worse. I say this as someone who is/was a big fan of the show and loved their appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience. I understand fandom and am susceptible to it myself, but I also know how to view things with a critical lens.

 

[skysolo]

Two man enter, one man leave.

Full scorched earth.

 

[The Diplomat]

Two man enter, one man leave.

Full scorched earth.

This guy and that fucking hat. I mean come on.

 

[Ruprecht]

Just a product of American political polarisation isn't it?
With less polarisation or a smaller population, characters like Anne Coulter or those that "cross sides" to pander to the opposition, wouldn't have an audience.

 

[deviake]

Two man enter, one man leave.

Full scorched earth.

This is a good example of how caustically he speaks but when you look into a lot of what he's saying it's accurate.

We do need to put pressure on politicians that are supposed to represent us, they're supposed to stay with the people who brought them to the dance and that means criticizing and getting them out sometimes. Bernie could have gotten concessions out of Corn Pop in return for his support and progressives can be putting more pressure on from within, but he didn't. That was a HUGE, costly error, worthy of criticism. Jimmy is also correct about some of Bernie's campaign staff.

A good example of pressure and criticism working was Ro Khanna endorsing AOC. He endorsed her opponent first, a political move of hedging his bet because he'd passed legislation with him and might have to work with him again, but then he dual endorsed AOC as well because people were outraged went in hard on him. Criticism and pressure is essential and while there's arguments to be made that focusing the brunt of one's criticism toward the liberal side of the isle is more harmful than productive (and in some cases may carry a nefarious agenda), this can go too far the other direction where people are shamed for justified complaints about those who are supposed to represent them. Party failings will never been addressed without constructive criticism and pressure.

Calling everyone cowards who says we need to work within the framework of the two party system as Jimmy Pop did here is quite strong, but the argument that direct action is required and that large scale changes won't be achieved in electoral politics is a legitimate point of debate.

In any event, I tend to side with @Jackie Blue, of the left/progressive political commentators, Kyle Kulskinski is one of the most measured and grounded. Nomiki Konst and several others are excellent too.

 

[TheGreatA]

Nah. I think he's just a hardcore progressive who has waited his whole life to vote for a progressive candidate like Bernie, only to see two swamp dinosaurs being propped up instead.

He's bitter, angry and wants the neo-liberals to fail, spectacularly. Because it's the only way he feels will lead to the Democrat Party having to abandon its failing platform.

If Trump wins again, and the Democrat Party fails again, most of the leftists who are now in support of Biden, will probably assume Jimmy Dore's position on the subject. He's just getting prepared for that possibility in advance.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

I think the left is going through it's tea party moment although I think it's even more fractured.

You have the authoritarian left who wants to police speech, have open borders, no cops and socialism. Then you have people like AOC that want a lesser form of that. Then people like Tulsi and Dore who want progressive policies while remaining sensible and call out the hypocrisy.

We need several parties. The current Democratic party wouldn't even be seen as left wing in Europe. They are center right or at best, serve corporate interests and status quo.

Dore is trying to start a People's party and while I think nothing will come of it, now is the time to try. I feel like a planet out of orbit. I'm closest aligned to Tulsi in my views and the left hates her despite what I would consider left/progressive policies.

If they don't like her or Dore, they wouldn't like me and don't have my interests in mind. So why should I vote for them again? Give me another choice.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

I think the democrat party are useful idiots for the right. No one does a better job of inspiring and swelling the numbers of the right.
Guys like Dore just get into trouble for holding the democrat party to standards - a lot of people really don't like that.

 

[danny23]

I hate this man, but he’s right. The current Democrats in power are more pro-war than the current Republicans. The Democrat presidential candidate supported the Iraq war and as a VP military intervention in many countries. Biden is a well known war hawk.
Trump’s admin has so far avoided this. However things could change in the second term. I remember during Obama’s first term he was pulling troops out and people called him anti war. After reelection he started so many more. Trump is still the safer bet. Biden’s warmongering past is well known.

 

[rambosabeast]

He's probably a net-positive for American political discourse, but of course he gets a lot wrong. His advocacy for certain domestic policies blatantly contradicts his "big club" and "your government hates you" shtick.

Also, he did spit in Alex Jones' face at the 2016 RNC. He could have spit in anyone's face and I'd still consider him to be a slimy person. For some reason, that incident kind of shapes my overall opinion about him.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Nothing against Krystal Ball, but I'd have to agree and they're getting progressively worse. I say this as someone who is/was a big fan of the show and loved their appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience. I understand fandom and am susceptible to it myself, but I also know how to view things with a critical lens.

I thought Krystal was the shit in the run up to the democratic primary. But now she's just being used to relentlessly bash establishment dems to try and alienate progressives from supporting Biden. With Saagar hitting them just as hard from his position on the right.

 

[Trotsky]

@Jackie Blue I also sincerely hope that you guys who were formerly appreciative of Dore make a point to dissuade your fellows from buying this dog shit. Thankfully, it seems that everyone on this board that liked him before has moved away from him.

 

[blaseblah]

I thought Krystal was the shit in the run up to the democratic primary. But now she's just being used to relentlessly bash establishment dems to try and alienate progressives from supporting Biden. With Saagar hitting them just as hard from his position on the right.

Except she's voting for Biden. What is she supposed to do, suck his dick like CNN? There's a lot to criticize right now.