Is it wrong to consistantly train your strengths during competition-based sparring?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Cardio King, Mar 13, 2008.

  1. Cardio King Blue Belt

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    Allow me to introduce this thread by saying that I am a wrestler... not a spaz.

    I am sick of Jius telling me to "relax" or "flow with the go."

    This is not to say that I train with any form of ego or implement any kind of mallicious intent, but I do go hard. I shoot for doubles, I elevate people (laying them down gently of course), and I like to initiate scrambles. Positioning is my forte.

    Now when I'm sparring, I do like to push the action. You know, actually turn the situation into an athletic endevour. When I'm on bottom, I prefer to create frames, disengage from my opponent, and then implement my wrestling. And I go easier on newer people, just like anyone would in any sport.

    I feel that in Wrestling, people train how they need to, and in Jiu-Jitsu, people train how they like.

    Question of Thread: Is it wrong to be physically forceful in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?
     
  2. Your a killer Lapalme.
     
  3. Playa4layer Banned Banned

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    No. Fight how you like to fight - but if someone ask you to slow down for them be considerate and slow down.

    Not everyone is training to be the next world champion.. some guys just do it for fun.

    be concious of what other people want.. that way if one day your injured, and you ask someone.. "Hey watch out for my knee please, i just had surgery" they will be accomidating and dont try to heel hook that leg. Just an example.. but you get my point..
    There will be times when you will want to continue to train.. but injurys will keep you side lined unless you have concious sparing partners.. who can speed it up, or slow it down at will.


    I understand your want to push the envelope and train hard. There are guys in the schools im sure you can do that with. Be an asset to the school and your training partners.. not an asshat.
     
  4. Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    It's a different kind of training. Positioning is your forte? Why are you working on your forte? Do you really need to work so much on your double legs? Aren't they already pretty good?

    People go soft in BJJ to work on technique. Guys who fight hard and try to win each time usually end up .... limited.

    You sound like a guy who does have ego issues, in the sense that you can't force yourself to work on your weaknesses. A wrestler who hits double legs, tries to make every match a physical contest, and scrambles away from guard? Haven't seen that before. Sounds less like "pushing the action" and more like "clinging to my strengths."

    I've got ego issues myself I'm trying to overcome right now, as I want to work on my escapes, which are weak. But it takes a determined act of will to let a blue or white belt take side control, mount, or back control on you, when it's so easy to prevent if you try. I know I'll never improve my escapes unless I put myself in that position tho. Gotta suck it up. If I just go all-out with my A game, I'm never going to get a chance to develop a strong escapes game.

    It's not wrong to be forceful as long as you are doing it to improve your technique. And you want to go hard fairly frequently. But most people are forceful because they are bringing their A game and trying to "win." The other guy usually reacts with his A game. And neither gets to branch out.
     
  5. eastcoast25 White Belt

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    scrambleing is great but if your trying to lean bjj then slowi down might help
     
  6. Deloitte Blue Belt

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    It's wrong, the point of jiu jitsu is to eliminate scrambles and to execute perfect technique. Of course by ALL MEANS create scrambles in competition if you can dominate in that area. But in practice, you are trying to execute your techniques perfectly (timing, etc) so they can work on people heavier than you.

    "When I'm on bottom, I prefer to create frames, disengage from my opponent, and then implement my wrestling."

    That's retarded, sorry. As a former wrestler, most wrestling moves aren't very effective on heavier people, usually I end up pulling guard vs heavier opponents and play butterfly guard or something alike. I'm not going to be trying to double leg someone 30+ lbs on me, its a waste of strength and hard as hell.
     
  7. mikey5time Yellow Belt

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    If you're hurting your training partner, and they ask you to slow down, slow down.

    If you expect them to tap because you're going nuts on them, you ain't gonna learn a thing.

    Just go hard with those who go hard.
     
  8. SFinclined Purple Belt

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    Positioning is your forte? How are your subs? Probably not where they should/could be if you're always going hard.
     
  9. Trickster*** Banned Banned

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    PERFECT REPLY!!!
     
  10. Playa4layer Banned Banned

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    sounds to me like your trying to wrestle in a jiujitsu class.

    Wrestling is great.. but doesnt that kind of defeat the purpose?

    when your on the bottom, play the guard.. learn to use it..

    Dont just use the position to stand up and get back to wrestling.
     
  11. DaRuckus337 Black Belt

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    Just know your training partners, know which ones want a slower, more technical flow drill (which is great for working on new things or weak points) and which ones want a harder, more competitive roll (which is great for working on your competition game and conditioning). Talk to them before the roll, ask if they're injured, what they want to work on etc, and tell them what you're trying to get out of it. Better communication with your training partners would make these little incidents disappear.
     
  12. DaRuckus337 Black Belt

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    A conventional guard is not the only type of bottom game. The point of a bottom game is to find ways of regaining a dominant position without getting hurt. For a good wrestler, the best way of accomplishing that might be by creating space to scramble back to turtle or for a takedown. There's nothing wrong with that, even though it is wise for even the best wrestlers to learn how to play some guard.
     
  13. Deloitte Blue Belt

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    Everything is wrong with that, thats the whole point of TRAINING. To learn as much as possible about the bottom game and not being closed minded.
     
  14. Garrett E. Orange Belt

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    I don't have a hard time with people going hard. Like you said before, as long as your not a spazz and threaten to hit me in the face because of it, i have no problem with you using your wrestling to your advantage.

    In fact, i'd rather you do that, that way it emulates what it is to be against a good wrestler. I do hear "go with the flow" quiet often, and thats typically MY style on the ground--however, i have no wrestlnig backround, so the only grappling i know is BJJ.

    I mean, if your making good transitions, getting in good positions, and overall outpointing, how can i sit here and tell you to relax when your doing what ur supposed to be doing?
     
  15. I know the TS, we train in the same gym. He is a good guy. Likes to train hard, and is helpful to newer guys.
     
  16. johil d'o Thought Warrior

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    Allow me to paraphrase: "Why won't my BJJ partners have a wrestling match with me, rather than trying to learn BJJ in a BJJ class?"
     
  17. DaRuckus337 Black Belt

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    Why does someone have to specialize on your type of bottom game? Why does someone have to devote all their time to "learn as much as possible about the bottom game?" What if they want to work on their top game, and ways of re-establishing it after a sweep or takedown? If a wrestler has spent 10 years honing a certain skillset they are comfortable and effective with, theres no reason for them to avoid using it. Certainly, developing a well-rounded game is important and some time playing guard would be advised, but there is nothing wrong with drilling your competition game on a regular basis if competition is what is important to you. If create-space-and-escape is your best type of bottom game, it is fine to train it. BJJ =/= guard play, and there is no reason training should only involve working on your weaknesses. Your strengths will not stay strengths if you don't continually hone them.

    Now, it seems like the TS is a bit unwilling to work on anything but his strengths, and he seems dead-set on hard-roll wrestling all the time, but although this may be unwise because it will ultimately limit him (and irritate his training partners if he doesn't learn to communicate with them), there is nothing wrong with being a strong wrestler in a bjj class and using it to your advantage on a regular basis.
     
  18. ScottErie** Electric Eyes

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    You're lying when you say you don't have an ego when you train, everything you've said in this post reeks of an ego. Why do you train BJJ, if you just want to wrestle? I'm sure it's not just you're lowly, lazy, unathletic training partners telling you to relax, but probably that instructor you pay money to. It's very ironic that you think in BJJ people train just how they want to, when you are the very person disregarding advice and wrestling rather then training BJJ.
     
  19. Deloitte Blue Belt

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    It's wrong because he totally avoids the issue of his weaknesses. It's wrong in the context of training BJJ, it is wrong in so many aspects. There is a reason why BJJ Black Belts are well rounded in almost every single position there is. His closed mindset and sparring attitude will only limited his progression in the sport of BJJ.
     
  20. ScottErie** Electric Eyes

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    You said yourself why it's wrong, it will ultimately limit him.
     

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