Is It Fair To Say That As Of Today, Robert is Number 3 All Time For UFC 185ers???

pankrat said:
Ok, so you at least acknowledge he had slowed down by 2017.

Regarding his SF run, he got there in 2009 and left in 2013. Thats quite a long time during his physical prime to improve as a fighter. And he certainly did.
Jacare in 2009 yeah, he was pretty sloppy with his hands but it's also what he improved the most in the following years.
2017 Jacare definitely doesnt stomp 2011-2013 Jacare, specially because his main strenght - grappling - had diminished by that time.
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Yeah i never said Jacare was in his prime in 2017. What i am saying though is that he was a much more complete mixed martial artist than when he was in SF. He obviously leveled up once he got to the big stage. His grappling wasn't that diminished. He just fought great defensive grapplers. How many times has KG, Whittaker, Hermansson etc gotten submitted?

Agree to disagree.
 
Robert would be a better fighter if someone told him you can hit the body and the legs
 
Dr Fong said:
Weidman was very good but he was playing Turok. Weidman has been completely washed up for years and yet he is STILL younger than Anderson was when Weidman beat him. Belfort and Machida also had one foot in the retirement home when he fought them.

As soon as he fought a fellow prime elite MW he got his head caved in and has been getting his head caved in ever since.
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You can't just go on age.

Weidman's body is completely shot, if he wasn't crippled from injuries he'd be a title contender still.

"I've had 10 knee surgeries, three elbow surgeries, two neck surgeries, three hand surgeries. I've had pretty much everything you could possibly have," Weidman told ESPN's Ariel Helwani in an interview released Wednesday. "The amount of pain when I got up from having my leg up above my heart, when I was putting that leg down -- not actually putting weight on it, but just getting on crutches and going to the bathroom -- was so bad. The pooling of blood in my shin and my foot was just so terrible. ... I was literally sleeping all day long -- the only time I was moving really was to go to the bathroom. And those moments were just terrible, literally like crying and pain."
 
13Seconds said:
Yeah i never said Jacare was in his prime in 2017. What i am saying though is that he was a much more complete mixed martial artist than when he was in SF. He obviously leveled up once he got to the big stage. His grappling wasn't that diminished. He just fought great defensive grapplers. How many times has KG, Whittaker, Hermansson etc gotten submitted?

Agree to disagree.
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Whittaker is the best anti-grappler ever at MW. You dont need to convince me in that regard.

Hermansson got outwrestled by Vettori...KG by Magny, Weidman submmited him and Whittaker outwrestled him too.

I mean, if you actually think the 40 years old, stiff, broken Jacare who fought Hermansson was better/more complete fighter than Jacare 2011-2013 (Strikeforce) you just dont understand what you are watching. I seriously doubt you followed Jacare's run in Strikeforce btw
 
Number 3 or more accurately tier 2.

It would be unfair to Adesanya and AS to bracket Whittaker with them as much as Rob would tell you otherwise.
 
GilErick said:
Rich Franklin
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Most of Rich's best wins were at LHW. He lost most of his crucial MW fights and his title defences were against people like Quarry and Loiseau who weren't really great challengers, just who the UFC had available at the time.

Dude has some really good LHW wins though.
 
pankrat said:
Whittaker is the best anti-grappler ever at MW. You dont need to convince me in that regard.

Hermansson got outwrestled by Vettori...KG by Magny, Weidman submmited him and Whittaker outwrestled him too.

I mean, if you actually think the 40 years old, stiff, broken Jacare who fought Hermansson was better/more complete fighter than Jacare 2011-2013 (Strikeforce) you just dont understand what you are watching. I seriously doubt you followed Jacare's run in Strikeforce btw
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I did man. I followed Jacare since before he got to Strikeforce. What you don’t get is level of competition. Aside from Brunson, who did he actually beat in SF that warrants your praise of his SF run? Let's actually look at it.

Because i think he most def would have lost to KG, Whittaker and Hermansson in SF too, those has always been terrible matchups for him. Discredit my take all you want, since none of this can't be proven we aren't going anywhere.

Jacare was a beast in SF, he's always been a beast. He wasn't that shot in 2017. He slowed down (which we both agree on) i just think he was closer to his prime in 2017 than he was in 2009 or whatever you're talking about.

Agree to disagree.
 
13Seconds said:
I did man. I followed Jacare since before he got to Strikeforce. What you don’t get is level of competition. Aside from Brunson, who did he actually beat in SF that warrants your praise of his SF run? Let's actually look at it.

Because i think he most def would have lost to KG, Whittaker and Hermansson in SF too, those has always been terrible matchups for him. Discredit my take all you want, since none of this can't be proven we aren't going anywhere.

Jacare was a beast in SF, he's always been a beast. He wasn't that shot in 2017. He slowed down (which we both agree on) i just think he was closer to his prime in 2017 than he was in 2009 or whatever you're talking about.

Agree to disagree.
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You can stop pretending dude

Jacare 2011-2013 in Strikeforce finished Lawler, Brunson and Herman and gave Rockhold all he could handle showing very improved standup from when he arrived in the promotion back in 2009.
You either dont know what you are watching or you werent following it if you dont acnowledge this. Actually both, most likely.

13Seconds said:
Because i think he most def would have lost to KG.
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Jacare at almost 40, stiff and severely slowed down, very arguably beat Gastelum in 2018 and actually did in an official score.

Yet you think 2012-2013 prime Jacare "most def would have lost to KG".....I mean, are you contending for shertard of the year in this 2022 too?
 
Silva
Adesanya
Rockhold
Moussasi
Whittaker
Machida
Franklin

Or something like that
 
GoshiShun17 said:
Question is in the title. He may not have the title defenses as some other candidates but he has the fights and tbe skills to win the case IMO.
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No it’s not fair... not to Franklin, Weidman, or Rockhold.

Why the need for metrics, name designation, categories...?
GOAT’s
MOAT’s
Imaginary rankings
Best physiques...?

Sheesh

Just enjoy the fights and fighters damn it...
{<BJPeen}
 
Last edited:
Robert isn't even a top 5 best mw. he's not even izzys best win
 
GoshiShun17 said:
Question is in the title. He may not have the title defenses as some other candidates but he has the fights and tbe skills to win the case IMO.
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No, it's still Weidman to me.

Trying to stay off of recency bias
 
Question said:
Yes. That's fair,11-2 at MW is pretty but IMO not the most solid number 3.
Mainly due to him losing to his rival twice in his prime.

He's still young so he can solidify that spot more by beating more contenders, that's easier said than done.
Still my favorite fighter right now, I just gotta be realistic here.
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Whos #3 then?
 
ThunderStruck said:
Whos #3 then?
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No one right now.
I still have him as number 3, but losing to the champ twice in your prime will hold him back later down the line when the next generation of middleweights implement their legacy.

I think Whittaker beats most middleweights right now and the guy has fought nothing but killers so far. He can definitely keep solidifying his legacy if he keeps winning his next fights and there's always a chance he could recapture that belt.
We'll just have to wait and see.
 
Benoitthegr8 said:
No it’s not fair... not to Franklin, Weidman, or Rockhold.

Why the need for metrics, name designation, categories...?
GOAT’s
MOAT’s
Imaginary rankings
Best physiques...?

Sheesh

Just enjoy the fights and fighters damn it...
{<BJPeen}
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Helax brother. It's just fun conversation. In sports there will always be these types of talks. It's not completely imaginary when there is data to support the opinions.

Oh and who the hell is talking about physique??? You most have me confused with one of these weirdos here lol. I only care about the fights.
 
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