Is Cody a better technical fighter than TJ?

[mirellale]

why would Cody get into TJ's head? what makes him MORE LIKELY to get into TJ's head than the other way around? because you said so? because he talked more? like i said, have you never seen a big mouth fuck talk lots of shit and then get put in their place by just a few words?

Cody who grabbed TJ's neck,insulted him over a year is definitely more likely to get TJ's head who only said i'll make you my bitch.At least for me.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Cody who grabbed TJ's neck,insulted him over a year is definitely more likely to get TJ's head who only said i'll make you my bitch.At least for me.

why would that be more likely to get into TJ's head? if i was TJ, i'd KNOW i already got to him. you know why? because he lost control of himself.

when you can't control your anger then you KNOW you got to the guy. Conor McGregor shit talked Aldo and got into his head, he shit talked Alvarez on got into his head, he shit talked Nate Diaz and didn't get into his head.

some people don't care what you say, and some people do. Cody is obviously a motherfucker who cares WAAAY too much.

the thing that TJ said to him would never make a normal human being mad, but obviously Cody is one of those manlets who has insecurity issues, that's why he gets offended by ANYTHING TJ does.

this is way worse than gotten to. look at him. everything Cody says to him TJ just laughs it off. the 1 thing TJ says to Cody, Cody stands up and starts acting like he's going to punch TJ. the dude has big time issues if you ask me.

even his team was gotten to. look at how upset Bucholz and even Danny Castillo jumping in. while Bang doesn't really say anything and TJ just continues to deflect everything like a pro. Cody should've never done TUF and he should've never tried to get into verbally with TJ.

 

[mirellale]

why would that be more likely to get into TJ's head? if i was TJ, i'd KNOW i already got to him. you know why? because he lost control of himself.

when you can't control your anger then you KNOW you got to the guy. Conor McGregor shit talked Aldo and got into his head, he shit talked Alvarez on got into his head, he shit talked Nate Diaz and didn't get into his head.

some people don't care what you say, and some people do. Cody is obviously a motherfucker who cares WAAAY too much.

the thing that TJ said to him would never make a normal human being mad, but obviously Cody is one of those manlets who has insecurity issues, that's why he gets offended by ANYTHING TJ does.

this is way worse than gotten to. look at him. everything Cody says to him TJ just laughs it off. the 1 thing TJ says to Cody, Cody stands up and starts acting like he's going to punch TJ. the dude has big time issues if you ask me.

even his team was gotten to. look at how upset Bucholz and even Danny Castillo jumping in. while Bang doesn't really say anything and TJ just continues to deflect everything like a pro. Cody should've never done TUF and he should've never tried to get into verbally with TJ.

Edit:Looks like i confused you with someone.You didn't say something about Cody fighting different against TJ.Fuck i wrote this fucking wall of text for nothing.I'm a mess these days.Pass this by

Seems fair to me but i don't think Cody fought that different against TJ than he did vs Cruz.The point you made earlier in this thread

Cruz verbally slaughtered Cody and Cody was about to go Dom's room and fight with him but came fight night he looked calm and collected to many people in the fight.He has a tendency to drop his left hand and doesn't move his head as much as he should during exchanges. It's a lot easier said than done to fix a hole like that. Even Cruz stunned him a few times for those flaws.

This is Cody's face after the Cruz fight.Cruz is good but his striking is terrible, Cody slipped and countered his big loopy punches. TJ is a much, much tighter striker, it's a very different fight. Cody is a right hook with a left hook setup, throws them the same every time, he's really good at that combo, but he's never going to top an elite striker with that.TJ is a much harder guy to counter and is excellent when leading and dictating the fight. It allows him to play to his strengths. Cruz, on the other hand, seems to excel most when he gets someone chasing him. I think it's a stylistic difference first and foremost.

Cruz and Dillashaw aren't dissimilar, both enjoy their stance switches and feint at an alarming frequency, but Cruz never engages in the pocket the way TJ does. He's okay with his opponent chasing him, but he invariably either angles away after a counter or two or shoots in. Cruz is a unique fighter but he's also one of the stronger adherents of "all the way in or all the way out", because his unorthodox form serves well to enable his long-range game (jabs, weird straight-arm hooks, long uppercuts, shifting to cover distance) and that long-range game draws an opponent in close for his excellent takedown game, but his loopy form and preference for shifting as he strikes is easily exploited by a tighter boxer when he sticks around in the pocket for long enough.

Dillashaw is far more fearless in engaging in the pocket because his skills are so much better, offensively and defensively. When he wants to, he can stick to a stance and sit down on strikes to gain respect, and he's defensively sharp with his head movement when in close. Against Barao, he didn't just go full-Cruz, keeping Barao turning and exiting on angles, but waded into the pocket when he was confident that Barao couldn't hurt him. Where Garbrandt and Cruz are opposite ends of a spectrum (where Garbrandt represents fundamental soundness in the pocket and putting power into his blows, and Cruz represents prodigious control of angles and creativity at range), Dillashaw nicely plays a middle ground with the best aspects of both.

Garbrandt was able to beat Cruz to the punch every time, and he was able to flashily avoid many of Cruz's punches, because he gameplanned to force Cruz into a range where Cruz could access none of the benefits of his style, and could only eat the brunt of his bad habits. He kept Cruz from taking and leaving at angles with sound boxing footwork and he was able to defend the takedowns of Cruz, and he forced Cruz into trades where the crisper boxer will beat the weirder boxer.

Forcing TJ into trades is tough, and Cody wasn't guaranteed to win because TJ isn't terribly vulnerable in the pocket. Not only could TJ kick at range to keep himself out of harm's way (against Cody's mostly pocket-boxing arsenal), he was excellent in defending himself when Cody rushed at him (where Cruz wasn't), and found an opening in the pocket that he was equipped to exploit (which Cruz wasn't). The first fight gave Dillashaw the opportunity to read the approach of Garbrandt that way, safely taking the angle in the pocket (where Cruz wasn't equipped to) and finding the southpaw right hook, and Dillashaw just took advantage of the same liabilities in Garbrandt's aggression at 227.

 

[CPH]

anybody who thinks Cody's striking abilities come down to "he's fast and throws hard" do not know anything about striking in an depth basis.

even how they try to downplay his win vs Cruz and say he never was that good.

they don't realize, when they say that, by proxy, they're saying TJ isn't that good for beating a meathead bum who also nearly KO'd him in the 1st fight and rocked him a few times in the 2nd, and Cruz is even worse losing to said meathead bum.

i don't think they even understand how sad that sounds, that the 2 best bantamweights in the world, one lost to this scrub, and the other one beat him twice in 2 fights where he was rocked multiple times himself.

it makes it sound like anyone who is fast and can hit hard can be a world champion BW UFC fighter.

Truth ^^^

 

[DysDave]

no.... defense is a technical skill, and TJ is levels above Cody in that element of fighting

Is he honestly, though? Cruz could barely land a glove on him. Cody's defence looks poor because when he hurts a guy, even a little, he gets impatient. And then he just starts swinging for the fences because he seemingly doesn't realise that just because a guy is stunned he can still hit back. When he's composed and boxing properly, his head movement and defence is sound.

 

[DysDave]

Seems fair to me but i don't think Cody fought that different against TJ than he did vs Cruz.

Cruz verbally slaughtered Cody and Cody was about to go Dom's room and fight with him but came fight night he looked calm and collected to many people in the fight.He has a tendency to drop his left hand and doesn't move his head as much as he should during exchanges. It's a lot easier said than done to fix a hole like that. Even Cruz stunned him a few times for those flaws.

This is Cody's face after the Cruz fight.Cruz is good but his striking is terrible, Cody slipped and countered his big loopy punches. TJ is a much, much tighter striker, it's a very different fight. Cody is a right hook with a left hook setup, throws them the same every time, he's really good at that combo, but he's never going to top an elite striker with that.TJ is a much harder guy to counter and is excellent when leading and dictating the fight. It allows him to play to his strengths. Cruz, on the other hand, seems to excel most when he gets someone chasing him. I think it's a stylistic difference first and foremost.

Cruz and Dillashaw aren't dissimilar, both enjoy their stance switches and feint at an alarming frequency, but Cruz never engages in the pocket the way TJ does. He's okay with his opponent chasing him, but he invariably either angles away after a counter or two or shoots in. Cruz is a unique fighter but he's also one of the stronger adherents of "all the way in or all the way out", because his unorthodox form serves well to enable his long-range game (jabs, weird straight-arm hooks, long uppercuts, shifting to cover distance) and that long-range game draws an opponent in close for his excellent takedown game, but his loopy form and preference for shifting as he strikes is easily exploited by a tighter boxer when he sticks around in the pocket for long enough.

Dillashaw is far more fearless in engaging in the pocket because his skills are so much better, offensively and defensively. When he wants to, he can stick to a stance and sit down on strikes to gain respect, and he's defensively sharp with his head movement when in close. Against Barao, he didn't just go full-Cruz, keeping Barao turning and exiting on angles, but waded into the pocket when he was confident that Barao couldn't hurt him. Where Garbrandt and Cruz are opposite ends of a spectrum (where Garbrandt represents fundamental soundness in the pocket and putting power into his blows, and Cruz represents prodigious control of angles and creativity at range), Dillashaw nicely plays a middle ground with the best aspects of both.

Garbrandt was able to beat Cruz to the punch every time, and he was able to flashily avoid many of Cruz's punches, because he gameplanned to force Cruz into a range where Cruz could access none of the benefits of his style, and could only eat the brunt of his bad habits. He kept Cruz from taking and leaving at angles with sound boxing footwork and he was able to defend the takedowns of Cruz, and he forced Cruz into trades where the crisper boxer will beat the weirder boxer.

Forcing TJ into trades is tough, and Cody wasn't guaranteed to win because TJ isn't terribly vulnerable in the pocket. Not only could TJ kick at range to keep himself out of harm's way (against Cody's mostly pocket-boxing arsenal), he was excellent in defending himself when Cody rushed at him (where Cruz wasn't), and found an opening in the pocket that he was equipped to exploit (which Cruz wasn't). The first fight gave Dillashaw the opportunity to read the approach of Garbrandt that way, safely taking the angle in the pocket (where Cruz wasn't equipped to) and finding the southpaw right hook, and Dillashaw just took advantage of the same liabilities in Garbrandt's aggression at 227.

This is a way more reasoned explanation, and you might be right. But in that explanation, why was TJ then unable to deal with Cruz? If he's as well balanced as you say, he should have been able to easily deal with Cruz's wild striking. Especially when you consider TJ was on a high after absolutely crushing Barao, and Cruz had fought once in 5 years.

 

[mirellale]

This is a way more reasoned explanation, and you might be right. But in that explanation, why was TJ then unable to deal with Cruz? If he's as well balanced as you say, he should have been able to easily deal with Cruz's wild striking. Especially when you consider TJ was on a high after absolutely crushing Barao, and Cruz had fought once in 5 years.

Cruz seems like an insanely frustrating guy to fight for anybody.

TJ was most successful when he let Cruz come to him. He doesn't hit hard enough to really give you trouble, but the more he makes you miss, the more winded you get and the easier it is for him to score points with pot shots.TJ fought angry, and it cost him. He was flat footed and loading up on everything.TJ figured Cruz out in the later rounds of the fight and that bodes very well for him in the rematch tho. He can make much more drastic adjustment than Cruz.The leg kicks.The first good leg kick TJ landed had Cruz in trouble, but TJ spammed head kicks for some reason.

A few tweaks and TJ can definitely win that fight, but its going to start with understanding what Cruz wants you to do, and not letting pride get in the way.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Is he honestly, though? Cruz could barely land a glove on him. Cody's defence looks poor because when he hurts a guy, even a little, he gets impatient. And then he just starts swinging for the fences because he seemingly doesn't realise that just because a guy is stunned he can still hit back. When he's composed and boxing properly, his head movement and defence is sound.

yeah, look at how TJ reacted to being clipped. Under pressure he stayed calm, stayed safe and looked to counter. Cody completely buckled after getting dropped because he has poor defensive awareness to go along with his technical failings.

Cody has amazing reflexes and hand eye coordination, so thats why he made Cruz miss so much.... because it was at range and he exploited his athletic superiority. Cruz also got to mentally invested into that fight imo

 

[DysDave]

yeah, look at how TJ reacted to being clipped. Under pressure he stayed calm, stayed safe and looked to counter. Cody completely buckled after getting dropped because he has poor defensive awareness to go along with his technical failings.

Cody has amazing reflexes and hand eye coordination, so thats why he made Cruz miss so much.... because it was at range and he exploited his athletic superiority. Cruz also got to mentally invested into that fight imo

That's definitely fair. It kinda depends on whether you call that defence or recovery/awareness. I was looking at defence more as your ability to avoid getting hit cleanly in the first place, which I think Cody IS good at when he's fighting composed, but you're right that he doesn't react well at all to being hurt. Don't think his chin is all that.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

That's definitely fair. It kinda depends on whether you call that defence or recovery/awareness. I was looking at defence more as your ability to avoid getting hit cleanly in the first place, which I think Cody IS good at when he's fighting composed, but you're right that he doesn't react well at all to being hurt. Don't think his chin is all that.

well you are partly correct, not getting hit in the first place is the main objective... but when thats not working you need to understand how to cover up, gain space and look to counter. Thats something that Cody needs serious work on. Being the hammer is great when everything is going your way, but sometimes you need to know how to be the nail without everything going to shit

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

Garbrandt got this far on his speed, reflexes, and power. Dom didn't have the power to make Garbrandt pay but TJ did. Gabrandt is the most talented 135er of all time imo but he is suffering from poor training and being manipulated by Faber

Pretty sure TJ is the most talented. CoGar was training striking AND wrestling when TJ did not even know what UFC was. The progress TJ has made, especially being a wrestler, is just insane. And talent comes from your brain just as much as your body, and TJ is light years beyond Cody in the IQ department.

 

[Codpiece]

You may be right on that. But what I saw against Cruz and TJ was that he has excellent counterstriking, and his head movement is top notch when he's focusing. He does lapse on the attack, but that's overaggression rather than a technical deficiency I think. But whether that mentality can be fixed is another matter- it's kind of like Palhares and his type, incredible talent but missing the mental strength to put it all together.

That’s all fair. Cody is a great counterstriker.

 

[Codpiece]

Well ok. My point is that he's clearly not a complete idiot who has nothing but speed, as nearly everyone is saying right now. He didn't KO Cruz - he decisioned him over 5 rounds. That takes a whole lot of skill, just ask TJ.

I can agree with all this. Cody needs to diversify his training to make the most of his skills, but he clearly isn’t just raw physical abilities. He is an excellent counterpuncher.

Cody is taking flak because people don’t like him and he was comprehensively beaten. That’s just how people are, best to not let it get to you.

 

[Kaiokenrye24]

Pretty sure TJ is the most talented. CoGar was training striking AND wrestling when TJ did not even know what UFC was. The progress TJ has made, especially being a wrestler, is just insane. And talent comes from your brain just as much as your body, and TJ is light years beyond Cody in the IQ department.

I think TJ is a true fighter's fighter, but I never have seen a fighter with the pure physical talent like Garbrandt. TJ has an obsessive work ethic and thats why he gained so much ground

 

[moreorless87]

why would that be more likely to get into TJ's head? if i was TJ, i'd KNOW i already got to him. you know why? because he lost control of himself.

when you can't control your anger then you KNOW you got to the guy. Conor McGregor shit talked Aldo and got into his head, he shit talked Alvarez on got into his head, he shit talked Nate Diaz and didn't get into his head.

some people don't care what you say, and some people do. Cody is obviously a motherfucker who cares WAAAY too much.

the thing that TJ said to him would never make a normal human being mad, but obviously Cody is one of those manlets who has insecurity issues, that's why he gets offended by ANYTHING TJ does.

this is way worse than gotten to. look at him. everything Cody says to him TJ just laughs it off. the 1 thing TJ says to Cody, Cody stands up and starts acting like he's going to punch TJ. the dude has big time issues if you ask me.

even his team was gotten to. look at how upset Bucholz and even Danny Castillo jumping in. while Bang doesn't really say anything and TJ just continues to deflect everything like a pro. Cody should've never done TUF and he should've never tried to get into verbally with TJ.

I think its more impressive than with Aldo though because in that situation you basically had the whole UFC media machine working for McGregor and trashing him. This is actually the reverse, the UFC have clearly been trying to push Cody over TJ yet to some degree they seem to have given him the rope to hang himself mentally.

Personally I suspect a big issue is that Dillashaw seems more akin to someone like Wanderlei, he just loves to fight and getting in the ring/cage is playtime not a situation to get nervous over.

 

[UFC=Pride]

Cody must have trained boxing defense with Rockhold

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

I think TJ is a true fighter's fighter, but I never have seen a fighter with the pure physical talent like Garbrandt. TJ has an obsessive work ethic and thats why he gained so much ground

I'm saying talent is more about hours put in. If you read the book '10,000 hours' it explains it better than I can here - i.e. the one commonality all memeber of the Berlin Philharmonic had (most elite orchestra in the world) was that they all put in atleast 10,000 hours of practice. If TJ grew up boxing, not just wrestling, he would appear faster and 'more talented'. We say guys like Mayweather are the most talented boxers, but he simply just was boxing way longer than anyone else, was doing so as a frickin' baby and learned tremendous technique from an unparalleled teacher in his dad and Roger. And not only is it hours put in, but it is how turned on your brain is while doing so. If you hate and resist what you are doing, you won't absorb the lesson as much, but if your brain is turned on, if you are excited by it, you will absorb it in much less time.

 

[Kaiokenrye24]

I'm saying talent is more about hours put in. If you read the book '10,000 hours' it explains it better than I can here - i.e. the one commonality all memeber of the Berlin Philharmonic had (most elite orchestra in the world) was that they all put in atleast 10,000 hours of practice. If TJ grew up boxing, not just wrestling, he would appear faster and 'more talented'. We say guys like Mayweather are the most talented boxers, but he simply just was boxing way longer than anyone else, was doing so as a frickin' baby and learned tremendous technique from an unparalleled teacher in his dad and Roger. And not only is it hours put in, but it is how turned on your brain is while doing so. If you hate and resist what you are doing, you won't absorb the lesson as much, but if your brain is turned on, if you are excited by it, you will absorb it in much less time.

I get what you're saying now. Amen brother!

 

[Dirge]

And on a related note, can a fighter lose 2 fights without controversy and still be considered to perhaps have the tools to win?

First up, TJ won both fights relatively convincingly. TJ seems to be a better all-round fighter, and at this point you can't really make many arguments for Cody winning a third- it's doubtful he has it in him. But watching them fight, TJ seemed to win more through superior fight IQ, gameplanning and focus rather than simply being the better fighter.

Cody, all antics aside, truly looked a lot crisper and faster with his hands. He was beating TJ to the punch in both fights, stunned him in both fights, and honestly looked to have the superior technique- but for whatever reason he shit the bed and starting swinging wildly as soon as TJ looked a little hurt. Had he stuck to his guns, countered and waited for a real opening instead of trying to finish so fast I think he could have got it done.

On a similar note, Cody just took Cruz apart and made him look like a rank amateur- some people think TJ beat Cruz, but even if you believe that it was a super tight fight with little between them.

I don't much care for Cody or TJ, but I gotta say that Cody still looks to have the cleanest boxing in MMA- possibly better than Conors even. It's frustrating to see him throw away what honestly looked like a winnable fight through a simple lack of fight IQ and temper.

So you state TJ has a better fight IQ bu Garbrandt is technically better?

Seems like a contradiction right there.

 

[DysDave]

So you state TJ has a better fight IQ bu Garbrandt is technically better?

Seems like a contradiction right there.

I don't see the contradiction, care to explain?