Is Cheick Kongo a top 10 HW of all time?

Not top 10. But his fight vs Pat Berry will always be something special.
 
Really? The guy looks like a God & when smashing prelim guys gives the impression that he's a killer but he just hasn't got it in him to defeat anyone near the top of the division.

Look through his record & pick out his best wins? Volkov. Mitrione. Crocop, who everyone knows struggled in the UFC. That's it. Every other top guy he faced, he lost.
 
HI SCOTT NEWMAN said:
He is a much more well rounded version of Ngannou, has way better wrestling and kicks.
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Ngannou would KO any version of Kongo silly. Did you see what old, fat version of Roy Nelson and Mark Hunt did to Kongo? He looked scared to death in both fights, too.
 
"All time" <36>
Hell no
I mean he was never something else than a gatekeeper in the UFC or Bellator
 
swarrrm said:
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i too shall steal this bit of gold.
thank you kind sir
to da naw naw haaaaleee to da naw

in fact. this is how i shall answer no to my children and wife from now on.
this is the new way
 
He spent years in the UFC and was never anything more than a gatekeeper. I guess everyone forgot about his losses to Cain, Mir, Yvel, King Mo and fellow gatekeepers like Heath Herring and Roy Nelson. The best thing Kongo did was move to Bellator where he could implement his "stall against the cage, knee the groin & grab the fence" strategy against a bunch of guys who had neither the KO power or wrestling to beat him. That kept his damage low and gave him a nice winning streak. He's had very good longevity but was never really elite.

At his prime he was about the same as prime Travis Browne (they had a draw in a forgettable fight...neither could really implement their game plans).

As for drug testing, I don't count any Scott Coker org as a "clean" period. Uberreem, Bigfoot, Barnett, Werdum, etc. never tested for anything in SF and all were busted in the UFC. Kongo may have moved to Bellator just at the point where he knew he needed some TRT/HGH help in his late 30s. I can't prove that, but it's very possible.
 
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Shouldn't you then also remove anyone that fought for any organization that promoted, encouraged, or ignored steroid use?
 
mkt said:
Ngannou would KO any version of Kongo silly. Did you see what old, fat version of Roy Nelson and Mark Hunt did to Kongo? He looked scared to death in both fights, too.
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Yeah they knocked him out badly.. but Nelson and Hunt were both top 10 solid fighters with huge power and EPIC chins, they could do the same to Ngannou when they were in their 30's too.

Ngannou has more powerful punches than Kongo, but Ngannou is still very raw, he is just loading up with big swings and is very very very eager to land the shot, he has a lot of flaws I feel. Kongo has been a wrestling machine for the last 7 years.. he has taken down basically everyone.
 
TheMadHatter said:
Hypothetically lets remove any HW that has failed a drug test since Kongo never has and I know some people will say failing a drug test should take you off of an all time greats list. In doing so would this rank Kongo in your top 10 HW of all time? I believe he would be top 10 if this were the case. He is now 44 and has had a hell of a career after his UFC run. A nice chunk of his losses are split decisions too.

USATSI_10832907-1024x729.jpg
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credit for not having an absolutely waste of a thread. made me actually think about kongo for a min and his very very long career.
after a bit of thought, its really tough to put him near the top 10 all time hw's even though he was typically floating around the top 10 his whole stint (even now)
if going purely off of rankings and time there then sure he is probably in the 10.
but my heart says no. i cant put kongo over ANY pioneer HW's like fedor,big nog, tank, semmy, igor,coleman pretty much any pride/ufc hw bad ass from the golden days plus the few greats that have came along since
had he been a part of that bellator thingy and won.... we might be having a different talk now. hes always been close just never made it
 
Fedor
Nog
Werdum
Stipe
JDS
Barnett
DC
Reem
Cro Cop
Cain

(In no set order). So no. Probably top 20, he's had a good run lately. HW ATG list gets awful fast past the top guys, so there's room if a non-champ does well.
 
Booof. To start with, he's not well-rounded at all, like almost every other candidate. Secondly, he is BORING. Always has been, win or lose. So already, you'd be arguing for a 1-dimensional, boring fighter to be on the GOAT list. Add to that his lack of big wins, his penchant for nut-shots, and the fact that he *could* be a deadly sniper on the feet but instead is a point-fighter....and the answer is HELL NO.
 
pride_rules said:
credit for not having an absolutely waste of a thread. made me actually think about kongo for a min and his very very long career.
after a bit of thought, its really tough to put him near the top 10 all time hw's even though he was typically floating around the top 10 his whole stint (even now)
if going purely off of rankings and time there then sure he is probably in the 10.
but my heart says no. i cant put kongo over ANY pioneer HW's like fedor,big nog, tank, semmy, igor,coleman pretty much any pride/ufc hw bad ass from the golden days plus the few greats that have came along since
had he been a part of that bellator thingy and won.... we might be having a different talk now. hes always been close just never made it
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-All true and well-said, but like you say, "My heart says no".
 
I am really interested in seeing someone making a top 10 HW goat list without the guys that were caught juicing.
 
Qays Stetkevich said:
Booof. To start with, he's not well-rounded at all, like almost every other candidate. Secondly, he is BORING. Always has been, win or lose. So already, you'd be arguing for a 1-dimensional, boring fighter to be on the GOAT list. Add to that his lack of big wins, his penchant for nut-shots, and the fact that he *could* be a deadly sniper on the feet but instead is a point-fighter....and the answer is HELL NO.
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Right. And if we're going to disqualify other guys for failing drug tests, Kongo should be lowered in the rankings some for all the times he's kneed below the belt, grabbed the fence, grabbed his opponent's shorts, etc. All his dirty fighting may have won him some close decisions when he didn't get point deductions.
 
thobra said:
I am really interested in seeing someone making a top 10 HW goat list without the guys that were caught juicing.
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I made a thread about this a while back, but you really can't do this in a fair way.
  • No one was tested in the earliest UFC years or Pride.
  • In Scott Coker's orgs (Strikeforce and now Bellator), almost no one gets caught, including ridiculous-looking version of Ubereem along with Barnett, Bigfoot, etc.
  • The pre-USADA and post-USADA UFC are completely different animals. Jon Jones passed tests for like 7 years before USADA
Any Top 10 list would have a heavy bias towards fighters who were never under USADA.
 
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