International Iran begins attack on Israel, launching dozens of drones that’ll take hours to arrive

[Islam Imamate]

He is the Sherdog account of Fetterman, he is just playing dumb.

The fact that Zelensky himself has not attacked MAGA Republicans who are outright Russian supporters while living in a constant hell of Russian invasion with zero support, just tells you why its something its not done.

This would be like, i don't know, bombing an embassy or something.

Obviously the GOP was committed to undermining Obama's legacy in general but the fact that the long running PM of Israel came out against the JCPOA was clearly a very important factor in consolidating and strengthening the opposition to the deal in the US.

Had Bibi went the other way and supported the deal does anyone think the GOP would've ended the JCPOA? I think its almost certain that they wouldn't have. Many in the GOP wanted to repeal Obamacare and that didn't happen. The dynamics are a bit different but the point is just because the GOP wanted to overturn Obama's legacy at every turn doesn't mean there weren't other political factors at play that determined whether they were able to in specific areas. Bibi's pressure against the JCPOA was clearly important in getting the US to pull out under Trump.

 

[Rod1]

So you think that diplomacy has been exhausted, leaving only a military option on the table.

Its very doubtful the US would wage war against Iran over a nuke at this point, even if Trump is elected. China and Russia would definitively not allow it.

We will have to deal with a Middle Eastern North Korea but with oil.

Is this where I call you a monster?

Nope, its where we call Netanyahu a monster, he was the only one who was opposed to a deal, which is an extremely low bar considering the West managed to get Russia, China and Iran on board.

 

[Samjj]

Its very doubtful the US would wage war against Iran over a nuke at this point, even if Trump is elected. China and Russia would definitively not allow it.

We will have to deal with a Middle Eastern North Korea but with oil.


Nope, its where we call Netanyahu a monster, he was the only one who was opposed to a deal, which is an extremely low bar considering the West managed to get Russia, China and Iran on board.

Containment won't be nearly as simple as North Korea.

A nuclear Iran is a more powerful Hezbollah and Hamas(along with all of their other proxies.)
These are all messianic Jihadist organizations with world views that seem to welcome mutually assured destruction.

This is very bad for the ME and the world.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I mean, obviously a lot of these conspiracies about Israeli influence are directly or indirectly influenced by anti-semetic propaganda to the point that it's become casual to accuse Israelis of some level of influence and control that doesn't actually exist.

To the point that a single, invited public speaking event is being directly compared to a years long clandestine influence and subversion operations by hostile foreign powers as if they are even in the same universe of transgression.

Literally ordinary politics, just politics you disagree with so it's bad.

I even said this specifically, the GOP invited him to shit on Obama because their entire policy was to shit on Obama. They didn't need Bibi to sway them to shit on Obama or his legacy. They used him to pile on their existing political message and motivation.

You've hinted at it multiple times in this thread, and it's just a tired claim that you and others can't prove. People explicitly talk about the actions of Israel, and you come back with "Oh, you mean the JEW"?
No one is talking about magical Jew powers or a hatred towards a people. This is about Bibi and his maniacal government and its policies. And if anything, there is far more anti-Muslim sentiments at play here than there is anti-semitism.

Ordinary politics? What does that even mean? International and domestic politics are a different game with different rules.
Has nothing to do with "Politics I disagree with", it has to do with exactly what I said. Bibi didn't come to speak in front of Congress as an ally of America, he came for his own purposes: to torpedo the sitting President's plans by allying with the Republicans.
When did the Prime Minister of Japan , Korea, or Canada come to Congress to "do politics" against the sitting president?
As @Rod1 mentioned, when did Zelensky do his shit on Trump speech?
It's just "ordinary politics' but it's something that doesn't ordinarily happen, and a good chunk of Democrats either criticized it, or flat out didn't attend to listen to his speech. There are certain rules and norms that everyone else seems to know and follow except for Israel.

And somehow, it's crazy to you to hold an actual supposed ally to a higher standard than longtime adversaries.

 

[Rod1]

A nuclear Iran is a more powerful Hezbollah and Hamas(along with all of their other proxies.) These are all messianic Jihadist organizations with world views that seem to welcome mutually assured destruction.

Weird how the messianic jihadists were willing to negotiate but Israel wasn't

Reap what you sow.

Chances of a president authorizing Iraq war 2.0 is basically null at this point, the US will support Israel by intercepting whatever Iran throws at them.

 

[Samjj]

Weird how the messianic jihadists were willing to negotiate but Israel wasn't

How's that Hamas / Hezbollah / Iran peace deal coming along?

U.S. missile defense is significant. I don't see how they could play active defense like that without themselves getting dragged in.

 

[Rational Poster]

You've hinted at it multiple times in this thread, and it's just a tired claim that you and others can't prove. People explicitly talk about the actions of Israel, and you come back with "Oh, you mean the JEW"?
No one is talking about magical Jew powers or a hatred towards a people. This is about Bibi and his maniacal government and its policies. And if anything, there is far more anti-Muslim sentiments at play here than there is anti-semitism.

Ordinary politics? What does that even mean? International and domestic politics are a different game with different rules.
Has nothing to do with "Politics I disagree with", it has to do with exactly what I said. Bibi didn't come to speak in front of Congress as an ally of America, he came for his own purposes: to torpedo the sitting President's plans by allying with the Republicans.
When did the Prime Minister of Japan , Korea, or Canada come to Congress to "do politics" against the sitting president?
As @Rod1 mentioned, when did Zelensky do his shit on Trump speech?
It's just "ordinary politics' but it's something that doesn't ordinarily happen, and a good chunk of Democrats either criticized it, or flat out didn't attend to listen to his speech. There are certain rules and norms that everyone else seems to know and follow except for Israel.

And somehow, it's crazy to you to hold an actual supposed ally to a higher standard than longtime adversaries.

So foreign leaders can only come to America to kowtow? They can't come to air their grievances with policy even when invited?

This is pretty ridiculous.

Every country has their own interest, Israel especially. There is nothing wrong with trying to sway Americans or American politicians to their position. It is literally the role of a President or Prime Minister to lobby for the interests of their nation on the world stage.

That is literally ordinary politics.

It's pretty clear your opinion is warped on the topic if you see any parity between Russian attempts at clandestine election interference and US/Israeli public policy disputes.

 

[Rod1]

How's that Hamas / Hezbollah / Iran peace deal coming along?

Again, self-fulfilling prophecy.

U.S. missile defense is significant. I don't see how they could play active defense like that without themselves getting dragged in.

Because its not politically expedient, political support for Israel is an easy cake because it doesn't affects the average American.

A war with Iran would definitively affect the average American.

 

[Samjj]

Again, self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yeah that axis really wants peace and it's all Israel's fault, right?

 

[Rod1]

Yeah that axis really wants peace and it's all Israel's fault, right?

Hyperbole much?

 

[Samjj]

Hyperbole much?

sure seemed like what you were implying with the self fulfilling prophecy retort.

 

[Rational Poster]

sure seemed like what you were implying with the self fulfilling prophecy retort.

If only Israel would destroy itself then we could have peace.

 

[Rod1]

sure seemed like what you were implying with the self fulfilling prophecy retort.

Well when Iran was governed by moderates and was willing to negotiate Israel made sure by going "against the entire world" that such negotiations failed.

Now moderates are gone and hardliners are in, that's indeed a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Rod1]

In recording, Netanyahu boasts Israel convinced Trump to quit Iran nuclear deal

Public broadcaster airs clip of PM telling Likud activists US exit came after he stood up 'against the whole world' by opposing accord

www.timesofisrael.com

The prime minister then begins to speak about the Iranian regime — “not the Iranian people, I have nothing against them” — before he is interrupted by an unidentified person off-screen who says, “It will disappear with the help of God.”

“You said it. From your mouth to God,” Netanyahu says in response as the clip ends.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

So foreign leaders can only come to America to kowtow? They can't come to air their grievances with policy even when invited?

This is pretty ridiculous.

Every country has their own interest, Israel especially. There is nothing wrong with trying to sway Americans or American politicians to their position. It is literally the role of a President or Prime Minister to lobby for the interests of their nation on the world stage.

That is literally ordinary politics.

It's pretty clear your opinion is warped on the topic if you see any parity between Russian attempts at clandestine election interference and US/Israeli public policy disputes.

Are we talking about what you think should happen, or what actually ordinarily happens?
Because allies do not ordinarily publicly make deals with the minority factions of allied governments to shit on the faction of the government that is in charge.
No matter how many times you repeat it, that isn't "ordinary politics", which is why you haven't listed all of the other instances where this has happened.....because it doesn't.
Imagine Biden going in front of the Israeli parliament behind Bibi's back to give a condescending speech about how wrong he and his government is at the start of this conflict...just "ordinary politics" ?

Allies don't air their grievances in public in the manner that Bibi did, which is why it is memorable. It is your personal opinion that what Bibi did was fine, but it certainly wasn't an action that is ordinarily done between allies. Especially when the Democrats asked him to have a talk behind the scenes, which he refused.

lol Talk about warped opinions. I put my ally in a separate category from my adversary. If my ally is blatantly trying to ruin my plans, in my house, in front of my people, I'm going to feel a different way about that than I am with the guy that I'm actively adversarial with.
'Russia bad' is a known known. But all of this bootlicking for an Israel that is actively undermining American democracy and putting American time, energy, money, and blood at risk while their fan club lifts them up as victims and our greatest ally ever at the same time is nauseating.

 

[Rational Poster]

Are we talking about what you think should happen, or what actually ordinarily happens?
Because allies do not ordinarily publicly make deals with the minority factions of allied governments to shit on the faction of the government that is in charge.
No matter how many times you repeat it, that isn't "ordinary politics", which is why you haven't listed all of the other instances where this has happened.....because it doesn't.
Imagine Biden going in front of the Israeli parliament behind Bibi's back to give a condescending speech about how wrong he and his government is at the start of this conflict...just "ordinary politics" ?

Allies don't air their grievances in public in the manner that Bibi did, which is why it is memorable. It is your personal opinion that what Bibi did was fine, but it certainly wasn't an action that is ordinarily done between allies. Especially when the Democrats asked him to have a talk behind the scenes, which he refused.

lol Talk about warped opinions. I put my ally in a separate category from my adversary. If my ally is blatantly trying to ruin my plans, in my house, in front of my people, I'm going to feel a different way about that than I am with the guy that I'm actively adversarial with.
'Russia bad' is a known known. But all of this bootlicking for an Israel that is actively undermining American democracy and putting American time, energy, money, and blood at risk while their fan club lifts them up as victims and our greatest ally ever at the same time is nauseating.

This is pretty naïve if you think political factions in various governments aren't constantly wheeling and dealing with various factions in each others governments, allied or otherwise.

Israel is undermining America's democracy. lmao

Democracy happened, and the people voted, and they voted for the party that opposed the Iranian deal and the deal was canceled by the party that openly opposed the Iranian deal the entire time it was being negotiated AFTER the election.

That's literally democracy.

 

[ringking1982]

edit :

Iran has launched an attack against Israel with dozens of drones, according to the Axios news site.

Report: Iran begins attack on Israel, launching dozens of drones that’ll take hours to arrive

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

Through its mission at the UN, Iran declared the mass aerial attack, which Tehran dubbed “Operation True Promise” was a retaliation for the bombing of an Iranian diplomatic building in Damascus on 1 April, and that it now considered the matter closed, unless there was further action by Israel.


“According to our intelligence, this is no consulate and this is no embassy. I repeat, this is no consulate and this is no embassy. This is a military building of Quds forces disguised as a civilian building in Damascus,” Israeli Defense Forces spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari told CNN’s Jim Sciutto. CNN cannot verify the claim.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/01/middleeast/iran-syrian-consulate-attack-intl/index.html

Israel is a terrorist state. Iran's response is long overdue.

Israel exists because of US money and Palestinian land (zionist land theft). Take one of those away and things will go back to normal.

Let's see how much longer Israel can get away with geocoding the Palestinian people.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

This is pretty naïve if you think political factions in various governments aren't constantly wheeling and dealing with various factions in each others governments, allied or otherwise.

Israel is undermining America's democracy. lmao

Democracy happened, and the people voted, and they voted for the party that opposed the Iranian deal and the deal was canceled by the party that openly opposed the Iranian deal the entire time it was being negotiated AFTER the election.

That's literally democracy.

You keep leaving out the important part here: the manner in which it was done.
Of course these groups talk, wheel and deal behind the scenes. The prime minister of a foreign nation doesn't come to the soil of an ally and publicly shit on him at the request of his political opponent in his house. The Iran deal wasn't something done solely for the benefit/sake of Israel. It was in our own national interests as well.

Throughout all of this, even though the US is the power top of this relationship, the US has been careful and supportive of Israel in their public statements--even when it threatens political harm to the Biden administration in an election year.

lmao, yes, Israel is undermining American democracy. Do Americans want to go to war, or spend any more time or money helping Israel bomb women and children in Gaza, blow up embassies in surrounding nations, or have a war with Iran?
If Israel is going to use their alliance with us to drag us into their bullshit, then, yes, they are undermining the will of the people.
There's nothing democratic about that.

 

[Rational Poster]

You keep leaving out the important part here: the manner in which it was done.
Of course these groups talk, wheel and deal behind the scenes. The prime minister of a foreign nation doesn't come to the soil of an ally and publicly shit on him at the request of his political opponent in his house. The Iran deal wasn't something done solely for the benefit/sake of Israel. It was in our own national interests as well.

Throughout all of this, even though the US is the power top of this relationship, the US has been careful and supportive of Israel in their public statements--even when it threatens political harm to the Biden administration in an election year.

lmao, yes, Israel is undermining American democracy. Do Americans want to go to war, or spend any more time or money helping Israel bomb women and children in Gaza, blow up embassies in surrounding nations, or have a war with Iran?
If Israel is going to use their alliance with us to drag us into their bullshit, then, yes, they are undermining the will of the people.
There's nothing democratic about that.

Chuck Schumer the leader of all Democrats, literally just publicly called for elections in Israel like two weeks ago. lmao.

 

[ferrisjso]

This is pretty naïve if you think political factions in various governments aren't constantly wheeling and dealing with various factions in each others governments, allied or otherwise.

Israel is undermining America's democracy. lmao

Democracy happened, and the people voted, and they voted for the party that opposed the Iranian deal and the deal was canceled by the party that openly opposed the Iranian deal the entire time it was being negotiated AFTER the election.

That's literally democracy.

This BS is one of the many reasons representative democracy is a scam. A winning candidate can make an election result a referendum on anything they want it to be. A vote doesn't say why the person is casting it, its a vote for a candidate that has a bunch of stated positions. And even if it did and that wasn't convienant the representative has no obligation to follow that mandate.

Foreign policy is the issue in which the country and political establishment are most clearly divided. The people of the US are deeply opposed to their "representatives" policys even if their reasons for being opposed to them differ based on their ideology.

The only part of US democracy that is actually democracy is ballot measures. Its actually asking a policy question and doing what the voters say. No aspect of US foreign policy has been done with this sort of consent. Do you really believe your typical MAGA voters voted for Trump to tank the Iran deal. Really? You think people were like "you know I was going to vote for Hillary Clinton but she wasn't mean enough to Iran so I'm going to vote for Donald Trump".