International Iran begins attack on Israel, launching dozens of drones that’ll take hours to arrive

[Rod1]

Where was that stipulated in the deal? Show me.

Under the JCPOA, Iran agreed to eliminate its stockpile of medium-enriched uranium, cut its stockpile of low-enriched uranium by 98%, and reduce by about two-thirds the number of its gas centrifuges for 13 years. For the next 15 years, Iran agreed to enrich uranium only up to 3.67%.

Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is the bad faith argument where you double down and ignore the contents of the actual agreement.

Bad faith is making an argument over nothing when asked what diplomatic options has Bibi exhausted with Iran?

You claimed "war is the last option" but it seems for Bibi its the first one.

 

[Rod1]

Am I Bibi? Of course the fear is a nuclear weapon. No one cares about Iranian nuclear energy outside of the threat of a weapon.

Yes, the agreement including reduced enrichment of the last component required to assemble a nuclear weapon for a set time period. This would reduce their ability to expediently construct a nuclear weapon

Yeah, that was the whole purpose of the deal.

It did not prevent them from developing ICBMs capable of carrying nuclear warheads nor did it prevent them from continuing their weapons program.

And? how would you convince Iran to abandon its conventional weapons program?

The most accurate interpretation of the agreement is that it delayed the construction of a working nuclear bomb, not prevented.

It prevented the acquisition of the materials needed to build a bomb, which is the hardest part.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

It's too bad they cant find a diplomatic solution. Israel has some of the best desalinization and reclamation technology in the world

It's actually too late for that. The majority of the population now lives in the center of the country:

The cost to move desalinated water from the gulf to the current urban areas is essentially a non-starter. The additional cost of desalinating the Caspian Sea to feed the northern farmlands would make Iranian farms and crops non-competitive to imports from India and destroy the agriculture sector which makes it politically impossible.

Lake Bakhtegan was the 2nd largest lake in Iran.

It dried up and disappeared in 2010. The Iranian government did nothing to prevent its loss and has done nothing since. The average Iranian uses 70% more water per day than the global average (and their population has exploded to 90 million). The Iranians lose 30% of the water they use for irrigation to evaporation due to inefficient and poor water distribution practices. Iran is also the world's largest exporter of pistachios. It takes 11,363 liters of water to produce one kilogram of pistachios. For comparison, it takes 4,325 liters of water to produce one kilogram of chicken meat.

In 2013, Iran's own Minister of Agriculture said that Iran's water crisis was a bigger threat to the country than the US or Israel:

Iran’s Water Crisis: A Bigger Threat Than Israel?

A former agriculture minister and Rouhani adviser says water is a bigger threat than Israel or the US.

thediplomat.com

They've done nothing in the past 10 years. If you go by the estimates of Iran's own scientists and government officials, they've got 20 years left before the country becomes uninhabitable. The time to act was 15-20 years ago. Now? They're just fucked.

 

[Samjj]

Yeah, that was the whole purpose of the deal.

Ok, thank you for admitting that it would not result in denuclearization but would rather merely delay their weapons program.

 

[Rational Poster]

Yeah, because that's all Israel does, make speeches.

Okay, so now we should just assume a more sinister narrative based on something...

 

[Rod1]

Ok, thank you for admitting that it would not result in denuclearization

It would result in Iran not getting a nuke.

but would rather merely delay their weapons program.

Delay for as long as the treaty stands, which means at least 15 years with the option of renewal.

Considering the West and the world at large couldn't give two shits about a non-nuclear Iran its obvious to see why Netanyahu torpedoed the deal.

Nuclear Iran is going to be the only way he can goad the US into invading Iran.

 

[Rod1]

@Samjj

BTW you still have not answered the question about what diplomatic options has Israel exhausted before pushing for war against Iran? ill consider a non-response to this as a dodge.

Even Netanyahu himself when he went to America to torpedo the deal that scrapping the JCPOA "Its not choosing war, its choosing a better deal" i wonder what that better deal was, its probably locked in the same place where Trump's healthcare plan was.

 

[Samjj]

@Samjj

BTW you still have not answered the question about what diplomatic options has Israel exhausted before pushing for war against Iran? ill consider a non-response to this as a dodge.

Even Netanyahu himself when he went to America to torpedo the deal that scrapping the JCPOA "Its not choosing war, its choosing a better deal" i wonder what that better deal was, its probably locked in the same place where Trump's healthcare plan was.

If you are asking specifically about Bibi, he has been campaigning internationally against the Iranian nuclear issue since the early 90s to no avail.

What diplomatic pressure can Israel exert against Iran beyond lobbying the international community?

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I wouldn't call Israel an enemy of the US though, Israel is like Turkey a geopolitical with its own agenda who will repeatedly work against the interests when convenient and possible.

Turkey had an extremely important geographical position to contain the USSR, not as important nowadays because it's unlikely Russia could field a proper navy in the Mediterranean but it's still important.

Israel brings nothing to the table. American support for Israel simply made the entire Middle East and Muslim world hate the US.
Now Israel is trying to drag the US into a major war against Iran that will cost trillions of dollars and the lives of possibly thousands of US troops. It will also cause the possible death of millions of civilians.
The supposed benefits of Israel are that they buy weapons and help the US learn a bit about defending against rockets.
That's not even mentioning the so called Samson option, a supposed Israeli strategy revolving around causing a massive nuclear war and destroying the world if the US and Europe doesn't help them against a victorious enemy. What a great ally.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I think anyone or any nation that needs 'the last word' is a bitch.

That goes for both Israel and Iran in this case.

Grow up, fuckers.

Unfortunately, that's not really going to work domestically.
Allowing your country to be blatantly attacked without a response won't go well at home, especially if you're relying on a military to support you, or voters.
If an attack happens on a politician's watch, the opposing party/country is going to use that as a political attack until the end of time. While it's a stupid game, letting things go isn't really an option.

 

[Rod1]

What diplomatic pressure can Israel exert against Iran beyond lobbying the international community?

Pressure the international community to do what exactly? Iran is sanctioned to hell and back and has been true since the 80s, the international community can't stop Iran from getting nukes or developing ICBMs.

Only thing the IC can do is war.

 

[Samjj]

Pressure the international community to do what exactly? Iran is sanctioned to hell and back and has been true since the 80s, the international community can't stop Iran from getting nukes or developing ICBMs.

Only thing the IC can do is war.

So this means you agree that any diplomatic pressure to prevent them from getting nukes and ICBMs is futile?

 

[Rod1]

So this means you agree that any diplomatic pressure to prevent them from getting nukes and ICBMs is futile?

Today? or back in 2015?

 

[Samjj]

Today? or back in 2015?

Early 90s, 2015, today.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Russia and China literally forcing their way into American electronic networks and stealing data all over the country for a decade or more to target voters with disinfo during election years is literally the same thing as inviting a foreign leader of an allied country to speak in front of Congress.

It's like you're intentionally trying to find some shred of anti-semitism to escape from the obvious issue here; comes across as extremely dishonest.
Who says Russia and China aren't a problem? And what Americans calls Russia and China an ally?
The relationships between countries aren't simply good guy/bad guy and ally/enemy. We still deal with China despite the public shit talking and the behind the scenes back and forths.

Ally or not, at the end of the day, no country wants to do things that go against their own interests if they don't have to. Governments change with elections.
If a right wing government of a foreign country doesn't like the current left wing president of an ally country, they can try to curry favor with the right wing elements of that ally government. They aren't acting as an ally to the US in that moment, they're acting in their own interests by allying with a faction of our government that opposes the party in power.
And in this case, he went behind the White House's back to get himself an audience in front of Congress to crap on the President and the multi-lateral deal that he and other "allies" were working on.
He wasn't simply "speaking in front of Congress", it was a blatant insult, and an attempt to go around the will of the American people and the government in power.
What good is an ally that is only your ally if they like the president that was duly elected?

 

[Rod1]

Early 90s,

Yes, without the invasion of Iraq.

Bush Jr utterly ignoring international community and going YOLO on Iraq was what kickstarted the Iranian nuclear program.

2015,

Yes, JCPOA which was a monumental effort between the collective West and managed to get both China and Russia while in Iran moderates were in favor after the disastrous Ahmadinejad management of the economy.

The stars aligned to ensure Iran would abandon its nuclear enrichment.

today.

Nope, even if Netanyahu and the entire world wanted, there is nobody to negotiate with on the Iranian side as reformists and moderates got sacked once Trump scrapped the deal.

I

 

[Rational Poster]

It's like you're intentionally trying to find some shred of anti-semitism to escape from the obvious issue here; comes across as extremely dishonest.
Who says Russia and China aren't a problem? And what Americans calls Russia and China an ally?
The relationships between countries aren't simply good guy/bad guy and ally/enemy. We still deal with China despite the public shit talking and the behind the scenes back and forths.

Ally or not, at the end of the day, no country wants to do things that go against their own interests if they don't have to. Governments change with elections.
If a right wing government of a foreign country doesn't like the current left wing president of an ally country, they can try to curry favor with the right wing elements of that ally government. They aren't acting as an ally to the US in that moment, they're acting in their own interests by allying with a faction of our government that opposes the party in power.
And in this case, he went behind the White House's back to get himself an audience in front of Congress to crap on the President and the multi-lateral deal that he and other "allies" were working on.
He wasn't simply "speaking in front of Congress", it was a blatant insult, and an attempt to go around the will of the American people and the government in power.
What good is an ally that is only your ally if they like the president that was duly elected?

I mean, obviously a lot of these conspiracies about Israeli influence are directly or indirectly influenced by anti-semetic propaganda to the point that it's become casual to accuse Israelis of some level of influence and control that doesn't actually exist.

To the point that a single, invited public speaking event is being directly compared to a years long clandestine influence and subversion operations by hostile foreign powers as if they are even in the same universe of transgression.

Literally ordinary politics, just politics you disagree with so it's bad.

I even said this specifically, the GOP invited him to shit on Obama because their entire policy was to shit on Obama. They didn't need Bibi to sway them to shit on Obama or his legacy. They used him to pile on their existing political message and motivation.

 

[Rod1]

It's like you're intentionally trying to find some shred of anti-semitism to escape from the obvious issue here; comes across as extremely dishonest.
Who says Russia and China aren't a problem? And what Americans calls Russia and China an ally?
The relationships between countries aren't simply good guy/bad guy and ally/enemy. We still deal with China despite the public shit talking and the behind the scenes back and forths.

Ally or not, at the end of the day, no country wants to do things that go against their own interests if they don't have to. Governments change with elections.
If a right wing government of a foreign country doesn't like the current left wing president of an ally country, they can try to curry favor with the right wing elements of that ally government. They aren't acting as an ally to the US in that moment, they're acting in their own interests by allying with a faction of our government that opposes the party in power.
And in this case, he went behind the White House's back to get himself an audience in front of Congress to crap on the President and the multi-lateral deal that he and other "allies" were working on.
He wasn't simply "speaking in front of Congress", it was a blatant insult, and an attempt to go around the will of the American people and the government in power.
What good is an ally that is only your ally if they like the president that was duly elected?

He is the Sherdog account of Fetterman, he is just playing dumb.

The fact that Zelensky himself has not attacked MAGA Republicans who are outright Russian supporters while living in a constant hell of Russian invasion with zero support, just tells you why its something its not done.

This would be like, i don't know, bombing an embassy or something.

 

[Rod1]

I even said this specifically, the GOP invited him to shit on Obama because their entire policy was to shit on Obama. They didn't need Bibi to sway them to shit on Obama or his legacy. They used him to pile on their existing political message and motivation.

In recording, Netanyahu boasts Israel convinced Trump to quit Iran nuclear deal

Public broadcaster airs clip of PM telling Likud activists US exit came after he stood up 'against the whole world' by opposing accord

www.timesofisrael.com

Ease down Fetterman.

 

[Samjj]

Yes, without the invasion of Iraq.

Bush Jr utterly ignoring international community and going YOLO on Iraq was what kickstarted the Iranian nuclear program.


Yes, JCPOA which was a monumental effort between the collective West and managed to get both China and Russia while in Iran moderates were in favor after the disastrous Ahmadinejad management of the economy.

The stars aligned to ensure Iran would abandon its nuclear enrichment.


Nope, even if Netanyahu and the entire world wanted, there is nobody to negotiate with on the Iranian side as reformists and moderates got sacked once Trump scrapped the deal.

So you think that diplomacy has been exhausted, leaving only a military option on the table. Is this where I call you a monster?