Tech "intel's f-----"

PEB said:
So it looks like AMD is admitting their architecture is behind Intel even as their chips have closed the gap. It comes down to instructions per clock cycle and data pipelines as well as the floating point instruction rate.

They plan on working on new architecture with future designs and it sounds like Zen 4 will be the last of the Zen architecture.
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Good luck with that without Jim Keller.
 
jefferz said:
Good luck with that without Jim Keller.
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I'm sure many elements will remain the same but they still have tons of Jim's former engineering teams from Digital and apple still work there so I expect they are pretty solid engineers. I know that AMD has a development team no one talks about in Boxborough and Hudson MA that they retain their specialists in multi-module engineering they where the team behind AMD new high performance bus. I saw a story about them in the Boston Globe when AMD released Zen 1. Some of these engineers worked with Jim at Digital in the development of the Alpha 64 bit RISC chip some are over from Apollo Computer who developed that 64 bit RISC chip. Intel has not gone out and gone after these people because it was very likely Jim had a very different contract then these employees in Hudson.

 
PEB said:
I'm sure many elements will remain the same but they still have tons of Jim's former engineering teams from Digital and apple still work there so I expect they are pretty solid engineers. I know that AMD has a development team no one talks about in Boxborough and Hudson MA that they retain their specialists in multi-module engineering they where the team behind AMD new high performance bus. I saw a story about them in the Boston Globe when AMD released Zen 1. Some of these engineers worked with Jim at Digital in the development of the Alpha 64 bit RISC chip some are over from Apollo Computer who developed that 64 bit RISC chip. Intel has not gone out and gone after these people because it was very likely Jim had a very different contract then these employees in Hudson.

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Every time AMD has turned around it's because of Jim Keller. Every, single, time. You can't deny that. They get Jim Keller to design a new architecture, he leaves, they release revisions, they fall behind, and he comes back in and saves them. AMD doesn't have to the cash to pull Jim back in this time. Now that Intel has him, they'll give him whatever amount he wants to stay.
Let's not forget that AMD is dependent on TSMC and GloFlo to innovate. Without them, AMD would have nothing.
 
jefferz said:
Every time AMD has turned around it's because of Jim Keller. Every, single, time. You can't deny that. They get Jim Keller to design a new architecture, he leaves, they release revisions, they fall behind, and he comes back in and saves them. AMD doesn't have to the cash to pull Jim back in this time. Now that Intel has him, they'll give him whatever amount he wants to stay.
Let's not forget that AMD is dependent on TSMC and GloFlo to innovate. Without them, AMD would have nothing.
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TSMC and who's GloFlo?. AMD has plenty remember you think that Keller is single handily designing advanced 8 billion transistor chips? A lot of it is his team he brought with him over from Apple and DEC. There was a company I worked for "EMC now Dell" that had a ton of DEC engineers working for the company. Many of them came from the same group that Jim worked in and a lot of them stayed in the area and went to work for smaller companies Jim likely approached these people when AMD opened offices in Massachusetts. What got them in trouble in the early 2010's was the bulldozer architecture where they decided that they would not use threads but in order to save space on the die they shared an APU with two CPU's vs an APU with each CPU and hyper-threading. Jim will likely move on from Intel once he is done working on their APU the guy they brought over from AMD was the GPU guy he will likely stay around for sometime. Jim left Apple computer you think they don't have cash? He's just moves from one company to another making made bank in stock. A few DEC guys at EMC told me they have their name on several patents pertaining to chip cooling and even thermal paste used on the chip. They were even working on multi-module systems even back in the early 90's.
 
PEB said:
TSMC and who's GloFlo?. AMD has plenty remember you think that Keller is single handily designing advanced 8 billion transistor chips? A lot of it is his team he brought with him over from Apple and DEC. There was a company I worked for "EMC now Dell" that had a ton of DEC engineers working for the company. Many of them came from the same group that Jim worked in and a lot of them stayed in the area and went to work for smaller companies Jim likely approached these people when AMD opened offices in Massachusetts. What got them in trouble in the early 2010's was the bulldozer architecture where they decided that they would not use threads but in order to save space on the die they shared an APU with two CPU's vs an APU with each CPU and hyper-threading. Jim will likely move on from Intel once he is done working on their APU the guy they brought over from AMD was the GPU guy he will likely stay around for sometime. Jim left Apple computer you think they don't have cash? He's just moves from one company to another making made bank in stock. A few DEC guys at EMC told me they have their name on several patents pertaining to chip cooling and even thermal paste used on the chip. They were even working on multi-module systems even back in the early 90's.
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My phone autocorrected GloFo to GloFlo.
No, I don’t think Jim creates the 8 billion transistor chip. TSMC, GloFo, and Intel create those, not someone at AMD. AMD doesn’t make crap.
All they do is modify an existing design and to do that without the product being garbage they require Jim Keller.
And what did Apple do after Keller left? Went to a 64 bit chip.
 
rikwebb said:
Global Foundries
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I know I was just pointing out that fact. Global Foundries actually got their technology from IBM through their partnership.
 
AMD’s Ryzen 9 3950X 16 Core CPU Faster Than Intel’s Flagship Core i9-10980XE 18 Core CPU in Single-Core & Multi-Core Geekbench Benchmarks
WCCF Tech said:
AMD officially introduced the Ryzen 9 3950X 16 core mainstream flagship processor yesterday. The processor was launched alongside the 3rd Generation Ryzen Threadripper lineup which will aim at the HEDT market. The 3rd Gen Ryzen Threadripper lineup initially features 24 core & 32 core CPUs but is expected to go up to 64 cores in January 2020 with the release of the flagship Threadripper 3990X.
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Ryzen 3000 series (2).png

Intel had already sliced the price of the Cascade Lake series to roughly half of what it was in the previous generation, but these early benchmarks suggest even the $979 18-core 10980XE is getting edged by the $749 16-core R9-3950X. It's still possible that we'll see just a tiny bit more gaming performance from AMD with the 3950X release, too, if they can somehow deliver those 4.7GHz boost frequencies. It's feels fathomable that such a CPU would be relevant for gaming until 2030 without some unforeseen technological disruption to the hardware market.
 
Madmick said:
AMD’s Ryzen 9 3950X 16 Core CPU Faster Than Intel’s Flagship Core i9-10980XE 18 Core CPU in Single-Core & Multi-Core Geekbench Benchmarks

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Intel had already sliced the price of the Cascade Lake series to roughly half of what it was in the previous generation, but these early benchmarks suggest even the $979 18-core 10980XE is getting edged by the $749 16-core R9-3950X. It's still possible that we'll see just a tiny bit more gaming performance from AMD with the 3950X release, too, if they can somehow deliver those 4.7GHz boost frequencies. It's feels fathomable that such a CPU would be relevant for gaming until 2030 without some unforeseen technological disruption to the hardware market.
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Intel apparently still leads in gaming benchmarks but is getting clobbered in energy and multitasking performance. Intel big cheese has proclaimed that 4 billion will be used to fight AMD till their answer is developed by the end of 2020. Meaning Intel going to fight with price and FUD till Q3 or Q4 2020.
 
Anandtech: The AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X and 3970X Review: 24 and 32 Cores on 7nm
As expected, the new 28-core TR3-3960X and 32-core TR3-3970X are utterly humiliating Intel's top dog processor for workstations:
Anandtech said:
Conclusion: History is Written By The Victors
I have never used the word ‘bloodbath’ in a review before. It seems messy, violent, and a little bit gruesome. But when we look at the results from the new AMD Threadripper processors, it seems more than appropriate.



When collating the data together from our testing, I found it amusing that when we start comparing the high-end desktop processors, any part that was mightily impressive in the consumer space suddenly sits somewhere in the middle or back, holding its lunch money tightly. While the 16-core Ryzen 9 3950X and the 8-core Intel i9-9900KS enjoy a lot fun in the consumer space, when Threadripper rolls up, they are decidedly outclassed in performance.

AMD has scored wins across almost all of our benchmark suite. In anything embarrassingly parallel it rules the roost by a large margin (except for our one AVX-512 benchmark). Single threaded performance trails the high-frequency mainstream parts, but it is still very close. Even in memory sensitive workloads, an issue for the previous generation Threadripper parts, the new chiplet design has pushed performance to the next level. These new Threadripper processors win on core count, on high IPC, on high frequency, and on fast memory.

Is the HEDT Market Price Sensitive?
There are two areas where AMD will be questioned upon. First is the power, and why 280 W for the TDP? Truth be told, these are some of the most efficient desktop cores we have seen; it's just that AMD has piled a lot of them into a single processor. The other question is price.

Where Intel has retreated from the $2000 market, pushing its 18-core CPU back to $979, AMD has leapfrogged into that $1999 space with the 32-core and $1399 with the 24-core. This is the sort of price competition we have desperately needed in this space, although I have seen some commentary that AMD’s pricing is too high. The same criticism was leveled at Intel for the past couple of generations as well.



Now the HEDT market is a tricky one to judge. As one might expect, overall sales numbers aren’t on the level of the standard consumer volumes. Still, Intel has reported that the workstation market has a potential $10B a year addressable market, so it is still worth pursuing. While I have no direct quotes or data, I remember being told for several generations that Intel’s best-selling HEDT processors were always the highest core count, highest performance parts that money could buy. These users wanted off-the-shelf hardware, and were willing to pay for it – they just weren’t willing to pay for enterprise features. I was told that this didn’t necessarily follow when Intel pushed for 10 cores to $1979, when 8 cores were $999, but when $1979 became 18 cores, a segment of the market pushed for it. Now that we can get better performance at $1999 with 32 cores, assuming AMD can keep stock of the hardware, it stands to reason that this market will pick up interest again.

There is the issue of the new chipset, and TRX40 motherboards. Ultimately it is a slight negative that AMD has had to change chipsets and there’s no backwards compatibility. For that restriction though, we see an effective quadrupling of CPU-to-chipset bandwidth, and we’re going to see a wide range of motherboards with different controllers and support. There seems to be a good variation, even in the initial 12 motherboards coming to the market, with the potential for some of these companies to offer something off-the-wall and different. Motherboard pricing is likely to be high, with the most expensive initial motherboard, the GIGABYTE TRX40 Aorus Extreme, to be $849. Filling it up with memory afterwards won’t be cheap, either. But this does give a wide range of variation.

One of the key messages I’ve been saying this year is that AMD wants to attack the workstation market en mass. These new Threadripper processors do just that.

The Final Word
If you had told me three years ago that AMD were going to be ruling the roost in the HEDT market with high-performance 32-core processors on a leading-edge manufacturing node, I would have told you to lay off the heavy stuff. But here we are, and AMD isn’t done yet, teasing a 64-core version for next year. This is a crazy time we live in, and I’m glad to be a part of it.



AMD Third Generation Ryzen Threadripper

Price no object, the new Threadripper processors are breathing new life into the high-end desktop market. AMD is going to have to work hard to top this one. Intel is going to have to have a shift its design strategy to compete.
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whatever you do, don't say "intel's fucked," amirite?

10nm vaporware and stock buybacks. lolz.
 
rob mafia said:
whatever you do, don't say "intel's fucked," amirite?

10nm vaporware and stock buybacks. lolz.
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You can stop. Everyone realizes you're a dilettante. You did that to yourself.
 
Madmick said:
You can stop. Everyone realizes you're a dilettante. You did that to yourself.
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lolwut

if i didn't know about this, why did i just mention the 10nm vaporware? insult smarter.

funny how everything i claimed months ago is still on track.
 
mass layoffs incoming at intel.

data center group reportedly being cut by 1/3 in q1.

'totally not fucked, though!' share buybacks and layoffs. they're more concerned with keeping investors happy than getting competitive products out.
 
rob mafia said:
mass layoffs incoming at intel.

data center group reportedly being cut by 1/3 in q1.

'totally not fucked, though!' share buybacks and layoffs. they're more concerned with keeping investors happy than getting competitive products out.
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Big layoffs were pretty common in the early 90's. Used to call it trimming the hurd. Personal is the most expensive piece of a company. This is not just due to AMD competitive threat. They look at the numbers and the trade war and move to improve cash position. Intel has huge base of customers who are likely pulling back spending on new hardware.
 
PEB said:
Big layoffs were pretty common in the early 90's. Used to call it trimming the hurd. Personal is the most expensive piece of a company. This is not just due to AMD competitive threat. They look at the numbers and the trade war and move to improve cash position. Intel has huge base of customers who are likely pulling back spending on new hardware.
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sure, except for the problem that it's the data center group - ie: what's supposed to be their most profitable segment and intel isn't hurting for cash (generally why companies "restructure" like this) - they're putting their cash (up to $20B) into share buybacks. ie: not into r&d. put the 2 together, along with their 10 nm (and forward) road map... and it's a shit-show with not even a plan of turning around. again, their strategy seems to be based around propping up their share price.
 
rob mafia said:
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-12/lieferprobleme-intel-haswell-prozessor/
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-resuscitates-22nm-haswell-pentium-processor (english)
intel's actually reviving 22nm due to their 10nm vaporware and 14nm shortage.
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Are they putting it on the modern 1151 socket?
Intel stepping back in time. AMD would never put it's 8 year old previous architecture design, Bulldozer on 28nm, on their new AM4 socket. And they definitely wouldn't call them the Athlon x4 940, Athlon x4 950, or Athlon x4 970.
 
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jefferz said:
Are they putting it on the modern 1151 socket?
Intel stepping back in time. AMD would never put it's 8 year old previous architecture design, Bulldozer on 28nm, on their new AM4 socket. And they definitely wouldn't call them the Athlon x4 940, Athlon x4 950, or Athlon x4 970.
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Are these chips even being manufactured anymore? Weren't they just made to get rid of the remaining Bulldozer inventory?
 
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