Crime Incels: how online extremism is changing

[TheGreatA]

Not only hears them but also amplify their victimhood and feed their extremes. That’s the big difference what they also touch upon in the video. The problem now is the internet which makes it so much easier to radicalize.

And it’s not necessarily an uprising they are worried about like in The Joker or whatever, but more “terrorist” attacks and violence against women. And then ofc in combination with other radicalized groups where it’s easy to get in contact with.

Imagine a lonely incel radicalizing on the internet and becoming friends with a radical muslim who teaches him to make bombs.

I can't really imagine the stereotypical "incel" and a radical Muslim getting along.

Xenophobia against foreign-born males, "invaders", is every bit as much a part of that culture as misogyny.

 

[So Fresh]

I don't have a comment on the Islam part of this. It's a conservative religion with very defined gender roles, there's no surprise that it would appeal to guys who might equate their success and failure with the opposite sex with changing gender roles.

As for if incels are a threat -- I think they're a threat the way any disenfranchised group is a threat when they don't see a path forward. Guys have to redefine how they value themselves to bring it better in line with the modern world. Holding on to outdated metrics of value is only going to lead them to greater and greater levels of disappointment. On the threat side, obviously they're going to be easier to radicalize because they're already angry and looking for a direction for that anger.

I don't think there are enough of them to shift anything of importance but there are enough of them to create problems.

Yeah you shouldn’t see the threat as some violent uprising or a mass insurgence in the street but more violent attacks against women for instance, or mass shootings, stuff like that.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

From what I have read about Islam and the people I have spoken with, the women have to stay covered and get beaten by their husbands as a normal thing. Yeah, not for my daughters.

Did you learn what you know about Islam from a fat redneck named Travis?

 

[So Fresh]

I can't really imagine the stereotypical "incel" and a radical Muslim getting along.

Xenophobia against foreign-born males, "invaders", is every bit as much a part of that culture as misogyny.

Yeah that’s what I thought, but on the right there is a shift going on. It’s mixing with different ideologies, so don’t think your typical neo nazi stormfront larper but more the alt right misogynist who hates women and the gender modernization more than they hate islam.

 

[So Fresh]

Does that video you posted talk about fathers and single moms ? I feel like not having a dad is where most boys go wrong and likely the best defense against this nonsense.

No it doesn’t. I don’t know if that what makes a difference. A young boy can also get his misogynistic views from their dad for instance and have it amplified on the internet. I think boys raised by single moms have more respect and admiration for their mums. But that’s just me rambling.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Has there ever been a time in recorded history where we've had this much time to devote to leisure?

How much of young men's leisure time is spent working on themselves? Gaining a skill? Doing something constructive?

How does a collective crisis of self in regards to perceived usefulness in greater society affect young men?

 

[So Fresh]

This is a thing?

@So Fresh <3

yeah I guess

 

[panamaican]

Has there ever been a time in recorded history where we've had this much time to devote to leisure?

How much of young men's leisure time is spent working on themselves? Gaining a skill? Doing something constructive?

How does a collective crisis of self in regards to perceived usefulness in greater society affect young men?

I think men, on the whole, are dealing with failure in relationships better than at any point in human history.

Extreme examples exist, but there is also a whole lot more rejection than men have had to deal with in previous times. Obviously some people will lash out in a destructive manner.

I think the intersection of these two quotes, the scale of rejection and the scale of leisure time, is worth exploring.

 

[jx820]

The thing with "incel communities" like with conspiracy theorists, and flat earthers, and other fringe groups is that they've always existed. The thing that is different today than it was 30 years ago is that they have platforms to organize, confer, and get on the same page.

So now instead of spewing 1,000 different flavors of crazy, they're all spewing the same crazy. They reenforce and bolster each other's fucked up ideas. Their confidence and uniformity of message starts to capture the imagination of less crazy people and pulls them into the echo chamber.

 

[calavera2]

Has there ever been a time in recorded history where we've had this much time to devote to leisure?

How much of young men's leisure time is spent working on themselves? Gaining a skill? Doing something constructive?

How does a collective crisis of self in regards to perceived usefulness in greater society affect young men?

I too find myself watching netflix

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

I think it's pretty complex topic. People are wired to reproduce and first world society is increasingly structured such that it is harder for people to do this for a variety of reasons - both economic and cultural.

There seems to be a sizeable segment of the male population that seems to only be interested in like a dream girl type scenario, when they aren't a dream guy. And women are actually in the same boat. The difference being women will still have a variety of men showing interest and pursuit in them, but the flip side of the coin isn't happening.

From what I can see, within that male segment is this incel sub-section, and some of them appear to be more voluntarily not having sex and in relationships than meets the eye because they have a mental block and need therapy. The type that will complain about women, but then when an actual woman that more/less meets their criteria makes an appearance, they can't or don't pursue because they have victim complexes and belonging in a victim group.

Then you can probably tack on what is generally the case for men that are perceived failures, which is an extreme lack of empathy or concern for them. There really aren't a whole lot of social support because men themselves view weakness as being a pussy and manning up, and the disposable nature of men. These folks need therapy but I suspect don't have the head space and funds to actually get it.

 

[Hatorade]

I think every guy can get a girl. Personally I got issues with getting a gf. But its purely down to my preferences. I want good looking girl, top shelf, end of story. Nothing average. But then how can I expect to get top shelf when I am myself average. This is where escorts come into play which I do use. So I totally dont understand that movement at all. You want a gf? Have a realistic expectations of what can you get.

I don't get why dudes are so obsessed with beauty.

Is it because you're only attracted to beautiful women or is it because you think beautiful women are a status symbol to impress people around you?

I'll tell you a secret, nobody is impressed with an unattractive man with an attractive woman. People will shit on that more than they will praise it no different than buying a car you can't afford. It's because they know it's a bullshit relationship, meaning those women rarely love their caretakers.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Did you learn what you know about Islam from a fat redneck named Travis?

No, from a fat redneck named Tommy.

 

[panamaican]

I think it's pretty complex topic. People are wired to reproduce and first world society is increasingly structured such that it is harder for people to do this for a variety of reasons - both economic and cultural.

There seems to be a sizeable segment of the male population that seems to only be interested in like a dream girl type scenario, when they aren't a dream guy. And women are actually in the same boat. The difference being women will still have a variety of men showing interest and pursuit in them, but the flip side of the coin isn't happening.

From what I can see, within that male segment is this incel sub-section, and some of them appear to be more voluntarily not having sex and in relationships than meets the eye because they have a mental block and need therapy. The type that will complain about women, but then when an actual woman that more/less meets their criteria makes an appearance, they can't or don't pursue because they have victim complexes and belonging in a victim group.

Then you can probably tack on what is generally the case for men that are perceived failures, which is an extreme lack of empathy or concern for them. There really aren't a whole lot of social support because men themselves view weakness as being a pussy and manning up, and the disposable nature of men. These folks need therapy but I suspect don't have the head space and funds to actually get it.

To that point, I say repeatedly that a big problem within that space is that they're attached to an outdated value system. Speaking broadly, they're expecting women to be seeking the same things that women in the 19th century or early 20th century were seeking. And what women are seeking has evolved. And these guys, who have attached their sense of masculinity to their ability to get women, but are trying to land modern women with outdated appeals. They're fishing with the wrong bait so to speak.

How they got there is complicated and, as you note, therapy is probably needed to get many of them to redefine how they demonstrate male value.

Probably the biggest change and the one they struggle with the most is the economic value component. It has moved from the top of the list downwards. And with that downward shift has come a shift on the sex vs. security trade off. Economic production has shifted from the guy's lead element to his compensatory element. Meaning that, previously, income was how he would land the chick and personality was just a differentiator between equally economically successful men. Now personality and other elements are how he lands a chick and income is a differentiator between equally personable men.

It used to be that you used personality to make up for not having money, now you have to use money to make up for not having a personality. And too many of these guys don't seek a path towards personality, rather they're still seeking a path towards income and that means they're going to struggle with finding/attracting women during these early reproductive years because they're not going to be economically successful until later in their careers.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

To that point, I say repeatedly that a big problem within that space is that they're attached to an outdated value system. Speaking broadly, they're expecting women to be seeking the same things that women in the 19th century or early 20th century were seeking. And what women are seeking has evolved. And these guys, who have attached their sense of masculinity to their ability to get women, but are trying to land modern women with outdated appeals. They're fishing with the wrong bait so to speak.

How they got there is complicated and, as you note, therapy is probably needed to get many of them to redefine how they demonstrate male value.

Probably the biggest change and the one they struggle with the most is the economic value component. It has moved from the top of the list downwards. And with that downward shift has come a shift on the sex vs. security trade off. Economic production has shifted from the guy's lead element to his compensatory element. Meaning that, previously, income was how he would land the chick and personality was just a differentiator between equally economically successful men. Now personality and other elements are how he lands a chick and income is a differentiator between equally personable men.

It used to be that you used personality to make up for not having money, now you have to use money to make up for not having a personality. And too many of these guys don't seek a path towards personality, rather they're still seeking a path towards income and that means they're going to struggle with finding/attracting women during these early reproductive years because they're not going to be economically successful until later in their careers.

Yes, I think that's all correct, but would say it's not just a matter of shifting behavior (not that you are saying it is). The pie has indeed shrunk in terms of people's financial capability for marriage and children, and also shrunk culturally as there's increased stress on consumption of the prime consideration of life and family generally being under the radar, often at people's expense because it's too late. The trendlines are glaring and obvious.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

No, from a fat redneck named Tommy.

Well tell Tommy that he's only half right

 

[Ornife]

Did you learn what you know about Islam from a fat redneck named Travis?

I hate stereotyping. Also, all rednecks are bloated, racist human garbage.

 

[Bojka]

Paying for sex still being illegal is beyond absurd. That's the most obvious change to make.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

I hate stereotyping. Also, all rednecks are bloated, racist human garbage.

This is completely untrue and acceptable.

Not all rednecks are fat garbage.

There's some that are skinny and do meth.

 

[So Fresh]

Paying for sex still being illegal is beyond absurd. That's the most obvious change to make.

I wonder if it would work with the specific group though. Incels mostly want traditional women. Modern women are whores, sluts, feminists, etc. So an actual prostitute is even worse.