In response to all those who say 'Watch kickboxing!'...

[g*r*b]

Grappling is a part of fighting, the most natural some might claim since all striking fights usually have to get separated once engaged in a clinch.

Frye-Takayama, a fight that Just BLEED fans fetishize, has long stretches of clinching against the fence in between the iconic bursts of mutual crazy punching. Funny how they never remember that.

 

[filthybliss]

Meh, grappling can be fun or boring, its not all the same. Watch Chimaev's fight against Holland and watch Sterling's fight against Kattar. There is a huge difference.

 

[Yep]

Meh, grappling can be fun or boring, its not all the same. Watch Chimaev's fight against Holland and watch Sterling's fight against Kattar. There is a huge difference.

So can striking but you rarely see a complaint.

 

[filthybliss]

So can striking but you rarely see a complaint.

there is. look at a strickland fight and look at prime wandy. night and day difference.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Sean Strickland basically does the same shit as Merab does but with striking. why is nobody bitching about how boring this motherfucker is. why don't we change the rules so you can only throw a jab if you throw at least 4 high kicks? or maybe you can only throw a jab if you spit on at least one person who bitches about grappling in a sport that allows it?

 

[blaseblase]

Why exactly don't you watch kickboxing?

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

I don't understand criticizing the wrestler instead of criticizing the person who can't get up.

It's both.
But at the end of the day, people disliked Jon Fitch, not his opponents.

Sean Strickland basically does the same shit as Merab does but with striking. why is nobody bitching about how boring this motherfucker is. why don't we change the rules so you can only throw a jab if you throw at least 4 high kicks? or maybe you can only throw a jab if you spit on at least one person who bitches about grappling in a sport that allows it?

Literally everyone bitches about every strickland fight precisely because of this lol

It's up to Merab's opponents to stop his gameplan.
Also, Merab's gameplan sucks from a fans point of view.
Both of these statements can be true.
Before anyone says it, I already watch kickboxing as well.

 

[BowserJr]

When people criticize boring fkn wrestlers.

This is such a lame defence when I hear this.

It's simplifying the argument to create a straw man for yourself to knock down.

Not everybody who finds wrestlers or certain kinds of wrestlers boring want to watch kickboxing. Or, they'd watch fkn kickboxing. There's ground and grappling elements which still involve violence - aka ground n pound, elbows, and submissions; BJJ is still interesting, combative, violent;

Wheras, holding people and stalling (not saying that's what Merab did btw. no comment on him/separate/in general... ) is NOT that. It's not combat, it's not violence, it's not causing damage, it's not trying to cause damage, or win. It's a lame fkn way of using a trick, essentially, something you know how to do, to just kill the action and 'win' rounds. It's fkn lame.

Plenty of us still like ALL the elements of fighting. Just not bullshit types of wrestling. Take somebody down, sure, but for a purpose - to hurt them or finish things. Don't just hold them or act like a snake, and pass time and 'win' that way. Prime example of what I'm talking about, which is bullshit is what Usman used to do; like, v Masvidal 1 - fkn holding him against the fence and not doing shit, just keeping him there not able to fight back. Oh, my mistake, he did toe stomp!

Dude you would've loved the era of Tito, Randy, Ricco, Hughes.

Nooootttt

 

[Doctor Grudge]

It is not a trick, if somebody can hold you down that means they are stronger than you and are forcing you to stay in that position.

Right, but why are they forcing them to stay in that position instead of fighting them?

It's because they know there is a clock. They are essentially fighting the clock when they are "holding" someone down without striking or trying to submit them.

So maybe it is not a trick, it is a clear exploit. The intension of having a timer isn't so people can be pinned down.

 

[Conan the K-9]

I have resolved this issue by watching more submission grappling. There are more events today to watch and you are not limited to what mma and UFC delivers to you.
I train and teach jiu-jitsu and enjoy watching it too. We got exciting matchups, great submissions, really entertaining if you know what you’re watching. Also depending the rule set you get warned or penalties for stalling aka known here on Sherdog as top control. And mostly the judges know how the rules work and even the matches with no finish get judged right, for the most active player.

 

[don't ask]

It's both.

I haven't seen a single thread criticizing fighters who can't wrestle. Have there been any?

But at the end of the day, people disliked Jon Fitch, not his opponents.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[sonhow]

If you try to force it more exciting the aspect of sport loses value. Like in authentic fight it is completely possible that the opponent molests you if he or she has better stamina and is stronger than you.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

If you try to force it more exciting the aspect of sport loses value. Like in authentic fight it is completely possible that the opponent molests you if he or she has better stamina and is stronger than you.

Has nothing to do with being exciting.

You can phrase it as saying that fighters are exploiting the rules about there being a time limit (which exist for commercial reasons, ironically enough) and the criteria of "control" to win. That isn't really sportsmanlike. They are leveraging the rules for something that wasn't their intended purpose.

If there were rules that forced people to fight more, that actually WOULD be more sports like, because the point of MMA is to resemble a fight as close as possible.

Wrestling matters in real fighting, but someone like Valentina did not go into the contest thinking she was using wrestling to beat down or submit her opponent. She was using wrestling because she knew the fight was 25 minutes long, and if she stayed on top for the majority of it, she will win because of how the rules are phrased. Valentina had no interest at all at engaging in the spirit of what MMA is supposed to be about.

That has little to do with ground fighting. She is essentially stalling. That is not really adding value to the sport.

 

[Lycandroid]

why bother typing any of that when you could be watching kickboxing

 

[Azure]

When people criticize boring fkn wrestlers.

This is such a lame defence when I hear this.

It's simplifying the argument to create a straw man for yourself to knock down.

Not everybody who finds wrestlers or certain kinds of wrestlers boring want to watch kickboxing. Or, they'd watch fkn kickboxing. There's ground and grappling elements which still involve violence - aka ground n pound, elbows, and submissions; BJJ is still interesting, combative, violent;

Wheras, holding people and stalling (not saying that's what Merab did btw. no comment on him/separate/in general... ) is NOT that. It's not combat, it's not violence, it's not causing damage, it's not trying to cause damage, or win. It's a lame fkn way of using a trick, essentially, something you know how to do, to just kill the action and 'win' rounds. It's fkn lame.

Plenty of us still like ALL the elements of fighting. Just not bullshit types of wrestling. Take somebody down, sure, but for a purpose - to hurt them or finish things. Don't just hold them or act like a snake, and pass time and 'win' that way. Prime example of what I'm talking about, which is bullshit is what Usman used to do; like, v Masvidal 1 - fkn holding him against the fence and not doing shit, just keeping him there not able to fight back. Oh, my mistake, he did toe stomp!

Maybe blame the person that can't defend a takedown or can't improve the position.

 

[Dr. Rose]

It is not a trick, if somebody can hold you down that means they are stronger than you and are forcing you to stay in that position.
There is no little secret grip or something to it, the same way someone like Pernell Whittaker wasn't running from his opponents he just knew how not to get hit by them. Grappling is a part of fighting, the most natural some might claim since all striking fights usually have to get separated once engaged in a clinch.

Every time someone gets out grappled at a big event these threads come back up. Go wrestle or roll yourself and you will understand how uncomfortable a lot of control positions are for the guy on bottom.

Spoken like someone that has spent some time on the mats. Cheers!

 

[Dr. Rose]

So can striking but you rarely see a complaint.

You do when it was Maycee punching the air about 10 feet away from her opponent.

 

[HHJ]

Learn to wrestle or GTFO

 

[HHJ]

Your grappling is ZERO


Your Wrestling is ZERO

 

[HerpDerp]

It's a responsibility of the fighters themselves to be able to avoid being controlled to such a degree.

If there's such a discrepancy in grappling ability between the fighters that one can just completely dominate the other in terms of forcing favorable positions at will, and while I agree it's boring as fuck to watch, I still think doing that should be enough grounds to win rounds, no questions asked.

Either take risks to get back up, go for submissions or sweeps, or agree to give up the round on your back. Them's the rules, and that's how it should be.