Opinion I'm willing to become a Republican, I just need one thing from you guys

[VivaRevolution]

You wish. I have an email from my union asking all it's members to join the local Antifa downtown. It also tells us how to vote. It's one of the largest (if not THE largest) unions in the nation and recognizable by name.

The SEIU is fucking horrible. It's not a real union. You guys have no leverage. It shouldn't even exist, they can't do anything for you.

Funny how I knew it was the SEIU right?

I mean bless you people for trying, but you are too replaceable. A strike doesn't mean anything.

Maybe if you guys could all go on strike together, but that won't happen. It wouldn't even make sense, unless it was a solidarity strike, as you have 1000 different groups with different employers you negotiate with.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

The SEIU is fucking horrible. It's not a real union. You guys have no leverage. It shouldn't even exist, they can't do anything for you.

Funny how I knew it was the SEIU right?

I mean bless you people for trying, but you are too replaceable. A strike doesn't mean anything.

Maybe if you guys could all go on strike together, but that won't happen. It wouldn't even make sense, unless it was a solidarity strike, as you have 1000 different groups with different employers you negotiate with.

Glad I'm not part of it, they keep trying though. Haha, yep all those reasons


I'm actually all for non-corrupt unions. I used to be against them all but I've seen them do some needed work in the entertainment industry so now I'm more about their functionality (original intent). If we could have corruption checks on unions and keep them impartial that would be the absolute best.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Glad I'm not part of it. Haha, yep all those reasons

Alright I'm curious then, which union?

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Alright I'm curious then, which union?

Nah you got it right. I just refuse to join, although I still get their emails and phone calls

 

[VivaRevolution]

Nah you got it right. I just refuse to join, although I still get their emails and phone calls

They are a arm of the DNC, and everything that turned public opinion against unions in the 70's.....well that corruption, and propaganda.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

They are a arm of the DNC, and everything that turned public opinion against unions in the 70's.....well that corruption, and propaganda.

I know that now, but I didn't realize the backstory. It would make sense to clean these unions up and hold them accountable just like every other entity, wouldn't it

I think this helps illustrate a lot of the hesitation by the right when it comes to unions in general. It's not so much the idea of having fair wages and leverage against tyrannic bosses, it's the idea of it becoming an entity which is bloated and militarized against themselves in ways that are not only workplace relevant, but completely outside of anything work-related.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I know that now, but I didn't realize the backstory. It would make sense to clean these unions up and hold them accountable just like every other entity, wouldn't it

Of course, but it is like our country today. We are failing. The voters are responsible for the corruption as much as the politicians and union heads are.

Every union member that isn't engaged is at fault. We have power. We have just been convinced that we don't.

You see this defeatism from the Democratic party to the union offices.

I honestly think my union president sees himself as Robert De Bruce's dad in Brave heart when he said....

"And understand this: Edward Longshanks is the most ruthless king ever to sit on the throne of England. And none of us, and nothing of Scotland will remain, unless *we* are as ruthless."

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Of course, but it is like our country today. We are failing. The voters are responsible for the corruption as much as the politicians and union heads are.

Every union member that isn't engaged is at fault. We have power. We have just been convinced that we don't.

You see this defeatism from the Democratic party to the union offices.

I honestly think my union president sees himself as Robert De Bruce's dad in Brave heart when he said....

"And understand this: Edward Longshanks is the most ruthless king ever to sit on the throne of England. And none of us, and nothing of Scotland will remain, unless *we* are as ruthless."

Until there is talk of serious union reform, we can't trust Robert the Bruce's dad, because he will wage wars with our blood in the name of heroism while secretly allied with Longshanks......



.......

 

[VivaRevolution]

Until there is talk of serious union reform, we can't trust Robert the Bruce's dad, because he will wage wars with our blood while secretly allied with Longshanks......



.......

I don't think any structural reform is necassary. My union head isn't corrupt, he just won't fight.

He doesn't think we can win, and he is right if he won't use his bully pulpit to organize our union.

Our power comes from people, not lobbyists. That is certainly a line of thinking that needs to go away.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

I don't think any structural reform is necassary. My union head isn't corrupt, he just won't fight.

He doesn't think we can win, and he is right if he won't use his bully pulpit to organize our union.

Our power comes from people, not lobbyists. That is certainly a line of thinking that needs to go away.

I'm glad your particular union isn't corrupt. That's another problem-- some clearly are!

The worth of a union also strongly depends on their negotiation capabilities. My union, for example, after a year of "pressure" negotiated higher testing/pointless red tape for it's employees and large statewide employment hour slashes and job cuts (about 1/3!!) for those employees. In return, it finally won the right to overtime pay! Amazing right??

Clearly, some unions are not concerned with their workers but with lining their own pockets. Which IS a problem as it goes against the very idea of what they were created to do.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I'm glad your particular union isn't corrupt. That's another problem-- some clearly are!

The worth of a union also strongly depends on their negotiation capabilities. My union, for example, after a year of "pressure" negotiated higher testing/pointless red tape for it's employees and large statewide employment hours and job cuts (about 1/3!!) for those employees. In return, it finally won the right to overtime pay! Amazing right??

Clearly, some unions are not concerned with their workers but with lining their own pockets. Which IS a problem as it goes against the very idea of what they were created to do.

This is all true, but it is up to us.

Look at the Longshoreman.

70% of the world's ports in developed nations have already been automated. That is what the Longshoreman strike was about a few years back. They didn't have any leverage. They did that shit old school. Shit got ugly.

 

[Gandhi]

You didn't answer my question.

I know why we don't let people own slaves in contracts. I know why we have discrimination laws.

Why do you think we need a law that prevents me from excluding a 3rd party in a contract?

If we are discussing closed and open shops then it’s the law that forces the company to include all workers in a union contract in a closed shop. Open shops allow the employee to choose if he wants to be in a union or not and if he wants to negotiate for himself.

I think you are framing this exactly backwards. Better off arguing that unions need this monopsonist power to fight the asymmetrical market power of employers.

 

[VivaRevolution]

If we are discussing closed and open shops then it’s the law that forces the company to include all workers in a union contract in a closed shop. Open shops allow the employee to choose if he wants to be in a union or not and if he wants to negotiate for himself.

I think you are framing this exactly backwards. Better off arguing that unions need this monopsonist power to fight the asymmetrical market power of employers.

In a closed shop a employer has to agree in a contract to a closed shop. The law doesn't force them to do anything. Their signature on that contract does.

 

[Gandhi]

In a closed shop a employer has to agree in a contract to a closed shop. The law doesn't force them to do anything. Their signature on that contract does.

Unless the employer can legally fire every striking worker, then no it’s not something that is “just agreed to”. It’s a form of union monopsonistic control over the labor supply that is enforced by law. That goes for closed shops or even the more watered down versions of it you see in the USA. I don’t begrudge the union for wanting this, it’s the key to there power, control over the supply of labor. But it’s not some “voluntary agreement”.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Unless the employer can legally fire every striking worker, then no it’s not something that is “just agreed to”. It’s a form of union monopsonistic control over the labor supply that is enforced by law. That goes for closed shops or even the more watered down versions of it you see in the USA. I don’t begrudge the union for wanting this, it’s the key to there power, control over the supply of labor. But it’s not some “voluntary agreement”.

But you already had to sign a contract to have striking workers.

The laws against not bargaining in good faith go both ways.

 

[ocfightfan]

I'm willing to convert to your religion/ideology as long as you change it to my liking.

Get fucked.

 

[Gandhi]

But you already had to sign a contract to have striking workers.

The laws against not bargaining in good faith go both ways.

Sure but to get the union there in the first place you need a legally protected process that allows the union to organize and strike. The union then uses that leverage to obtain as much control over the supply of labor as it is legally allowed to. In some legal justifications / countries it can get a full closed shop, in others it has to settle for different shades of it (ie union shop, merit shop, etc.). I guess saying that the closed shop is universally enforced by law is overstating but it’s hard to argue that it’s a function of legally protected union rights rather than “voluntary” negotiation.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

You don't have to. You can go golf on a golf course that wasn't consented to by the owner of that land, to be a private golf course you have to pay dues to golf at.

Gotti, Lanski, and Capone would be proud of you.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Gotti, Lanski, and Capone would be proud of you.

It's so wierd that when workers act like owners, that this needs to regulated by law in your book.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

It's so wierd that when workers act like owners, that this needs to regulated by law in your book.

No one is saying that you can't collectively bargain or go on strike, you just can't make Joe to join your little mob via threat.