I'm arguing with a friend about tj potentially being the goat down the track

hunt12

hunt12

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My main argument was he absolutely schooled renan twice who had that much hype around him and it was warranted and was considered pound for pound at that time. But he just brushes it off saying renan was never that good. So how good was renan and how much credit should we give to TJ for those two fights?
 
Good question

TJ looks fantastic at the moment, and Renan was top 5 P4P and on a 30 fight win streak

*edit Just started watching the first TJ Barao fight again Rogan said Renan represented ''the very peak of MMA evolution'', ''world class stand up, world class grappling, everything world class''
 
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He's already damn close to being BW goat.

He and Cruz are neck and neck.
 
Dude, where have you been? Renan lost so he is absolute shit and always was. His 30 fight win streak and years undefeated mean absolutely nothing, the guy LOST for fucks sake!

do you even MMA? Do you even sherdog?
 
I like TJ, but he's not even close to GOAT status.
Fedor, Anderson, GSP and Aldo are far above him.

Consecutive title-defenses are what really matters.
 
VVarhead said:
I like TJ, but he's not even close to GOAT status.
Fedor, Anderson, GSP and Aldo are far above him.
You missed dj then haha
Consecutive title-defenses are what really matters.
Click to expand...

You missed dj then haha
 
BW goat? Like Arm Barbarian said, it's him vs Cruz, both very close. I consider Cruz better for now (more wins, less losses, better quality of opponents, better legacy), but with Cruz being injured and TJ continuing to win, he can surpass Cruz.

Goat goat? No way! Not even in top 10.
 
Beating Barao was huge. The guy was unstoppable at the time TJ beat him. I also think TJ beat Cruz. He isn't close to GOAT but he definitely has potential. And I am not a fan of his.
 
Renan was good, kind of like a poor man's Aldo. I just rewatched their fights the other day and Rogan's hyperbole was in full swing, apparently Barao was the greatest P4P fighter on the planet at that time. It just shows you how frequently Rogan adjusts his opinion in order to serve his latest narrative.
 
"potentially being the goat down the track", "Renan"?
ummmmm baaaaaaaaaahahhahahahah praise gay jesus
 
i think he's close now, but i feel like the division is so shallow that ANYONE could be the GOAT with the right 3-4 wins.

i guess i'm trying to say is, sure, him and Cruz are up for the BW GOAT, but, it's not like it's that hard to accomplish, because there is no standard since it's not an old division with lots of history. that's why everyone is high on Jon Jones. historically, LHW has been a shark's tank.

for example, had Cody beaten TJ he'd be in the talks too, and the only 2 top tier wins he'd have had was TJ and Cruz.

Chris Weidman has beaten Anderson Silva twice, Lyoto Machida in his prime, and Vitor Belfort, not just former champions, not just great fighters, those are legends that he defeated. but nobody is clamoring for him to be recognized as the MW GOAT or even in the conversation even though he's 2-0 vs the guy lots of people consider the MW GOAT.

that's because it's HARD to be considered a GOAT in LHW/MW/WW/LW/FW weight classes. but HW, FLW, BW, nearly everyone is 3-4 wins away from being considered a nominee for GOAT status of the division.
 
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chaos_36 said:
Rogan's hyperbole was in full swing, apparently Barao was the greatest P4P fighter on the planet at that time.
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There's almost a curse when he calls someone the P4P best - they either lose soon after or get flagged for penis pills.

Seriously, though. The whole legacy thing for one seems like something American sports fans are obsessed with and try and determine where it stands while a fighter, player, coach or a team are still active, and not when they retire/disband. In a sport like MMA, only the fighter will know what he had to go through, nagging injuries he had coming in to a fight, personal stuff outside of training, etc.

Fans will obviously be more inclined to pick a fighter they're a fan of. Reading the P4P debates on here would make your head fucking explode.
 
Codys a great fighter but ffs stop with the G.O.A.T. talk bs, every fan thinks their fav fighter is the G.O.A.T. , its really fucking tedious.
tenor.gif

Do you even know what the acronym G.O.A.T stands for?
 
LOL so much GOAT talk.

TJ's best wins are
1. Cody twice, who beat the BW GOAT in Cruz in dominant fashion. TJ is the lineal BW champ.

2. Barao twice, who at 27 yo was still in his prime despite the mileage from fighting for nearly 10 years, similarly to Aldo pre-Conor.


Additional reqs for GOAT contention:

3. Become a two division champ, can beat Cejudo at FLYW, or move up and fight Holloway/Ortega at FW.

4. He avenged his loss to Assuncao, would need to avenge losses to Dodson and possibly Cruz to be GSP-like in avenging all his losses.

5. Defend BW strap a few more times.
 
TJ first has to beat Dom to even be considered for GOAT...then he needs to clean out the division. Styles make fights and just like Cody's style beats Dom 4 out of 5 times, TJ beats Cody probably 9 out of 10. Unfortunately IMO, Dom's style of fighting beats TJ (even though TJ basically copied Dom's style) 4 out of 5 times until Dom slows down a step or two.
 
Hoop said:
There's almost a curse when he calls someone the P4P best - they either lose soon after or get flagged for penis pills.

Seriously, though. The whole legacy thing for one seems like something American sports fans are obsessed with and try and determine where it stands while a fighter, player, coach or a team are still active, and not when they retire/disband. In a sport like MMA, only the fighter will know what he had to go through, nagging injuries he had coming in to a fight, personal stuff outside of training, etc.

Fans will obviously be more inclined to pick a fighter they're a fan of. Reading the P4P debates on here would make your head fucking explode.
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To be fair he was calling both Anderson and DJ the P4P greatest for a while before they lost, although there was a weird little grey area when he would alternate between Anderson and Jones. I agree with your statement about how fans pick their P4P guy. Fedor has been one of my favorite fighters since '03 and I find myself always accentuating aspects of pound for pound that end up favorable for him (lack of size, undefeated streak, finishing percentage etc) while simultaneously omitting things like level of competition because that ends up favoring GSP or Jones rather than Fedor. The whole thing is confirmation bias at its finest haha.
 
FleximusPrime said:
Codys a great fighter but ffs stop with the G.O.A.T. talk bs, every fan thinks their fav fighter is the G.O.A.T. , its really fucking tedious.
tenor.gif

Do you even know what the acronym G.O.A.T stands for?
Click to expand...
that's why he didn't say cody but dillashaw
 
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