If you don't train takedowns, you are not a complete grappler

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primaxopt

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If you train BJJ strictly for BJJ sport competition, I can understand not training any takedowns.

If you want BJJ to be at all relevant for self-defense or MMA, takedowns and takedown defense are crucial. This isn't to bash guard-pullers, but I just think BJJ should have some relevance to actual fighting. I love cross-training in wrestling, judo, whatever is available. What do you think?
 
primaxopt said:
If you train BJJ strictly for BJJ sport competition, I can understand not training any takedowns.

If you want BJJ to be at all relevant for self-defense or MMA, takedowns and takedown defense are crucial.
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I don't think anyone will dispute you on that. Anyone at all. Even someone who pulls guard 100% of the time.

Some people have no interest in training for self defense and/or MMA.
 
16 posts in 5 years? Wow, average 3 posts a year.

I agree. People don't fight from their knees. If you want to fight, you got to know how to take someone to the ground.
 
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May seem obvious. Yet most ppl train from the knees and show no interest in cross training.

Ya, lots of lurking
 
And if you don't train striking, you aren't a complete fighter. Of course. What matters is whether or not that's what you want. Ultimately, we do this because we like it, not because we have to. If you don't like to practice takedowns, then I'm not going to tell you that you should do them.
 
primaxopt said:
If you train BJJ strictly for BJJ sport competition, I can understand not training any takedowns.

If you want BJJ to be at all relevant for self-defense or MMA, takedowns and takedown defense are crucial. This isn't to bash guard-pullers, but I just think BJJ should have some relevance to actual fighting. I love cross-training in wrestling, judo, whatever is available. What do you think?
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Sorry but this isn't true at all. We train take downs at my gym and if you think my first goal would be to take someone down on concrete, you're out of your mind. If I'm in a fight that HAPPENS to go to the ground, I have the ability to control most people from there - Tell me again how that's useless.

It seems pretty obvious to me that these "call out" threads for BJJ guys are really just butthurt practitioners of other grappling arts who pretty much know that in a submission grappling match, you're probably going to end up tapping to the bjj guy. Go sell crazy somewhere else.
 
primaxopt said:
May seem obvious. Yet most ppl train from the knees and show no interest in cross training.

Ya, lots of lurking
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I feel you, *****. When your instructor says "You guys can start on the knees or standing here guys.." You want everyone to start standing 'cos we need that take-down experience. I get dat, I get dat...
 
Starting on your knees occasionally isnt a bad thing. If your a good wrestler, there might be a better wrestler and you can learn to get off your back or fight for sub, which wouldn't happen if you just took your opponent down.

I'm mostly a wrestler but when there's open mat and everybody starts on their knees i just let them get on top of me and work my own goals of getting on top or getting a sub. Helps me a ton
 
Looks like there is some disagreement.

Think about it like Olympic TKD. Here on f12, we widely bash it as an ineffective TMA because they don't really punch and are focused on point scoring with kicks. Yet it started out as a more practical stand up style. Things like starting on the knees and guys going for a double guard pull are similar. It's not like sweeps are useless in a fight, but it's getting to the point where the basic way of competing with these strategies has no relevance to actual fighting.
 
primaxopt said:
Looks like there is some disagreement.

Think about it like Olympic TKD. Here on f12, we widely bash it as an ineffective TMA because they don't really punch and are focused on point scoring with kicks. Yet it started out as a more practical stand up style. Things like starting on the knees and guys going for a double guard pull are similar. It's not like sweeps are useless in a fight, but it's getting to the point where the basic way of competing with these strategies has no relevance to actual fighting.
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the #1 ranked bjj guy now is a takedown artist
 
Doing rolls from standing is just not practical in many gyms as guys can get easily injured from takedowns on limited mat space and they can bump into each other a lot. We bump into each other already during rolls and it would be a lot more damaging if people were standing up doing takedowns and sprawling.

However, some classes we have a line up where they stand 3 or 4 guys in the middle to rotate partners with takedowns etc, it works but I guess its not appropriate for those whole-class rolling sessions
 
if you don't develop your inverted gward you're not a complete grappler.



one of the coolest things about grappling is it's sheer flexibility. you can be old and lazy, young and athletic. an mma toughguy, a sport weenie, or just a hobbyist. you can be totally helio-old skool or do nothing but the berimbolo and still share the same mats with all those other people. it really is your jiu jitsu.
 
Jeez, I haven't posted here in who knows how long...anyway, I couldn't agree more, but unless your bjj club focuses on takedowns, or your judo club practices a lot of newaza, it can be hard to develop well rounded skill set.

Of course you can train cross train, I currently split my training between Judo and BJJ 50/50. However, if you are just starting out, with a steep learning curve in both arts, you may find that you don't progress in either art as quickly as someone who focuses on one.

That can be hard, seeing others progress quicker than you, it shouldn't matter, but I'm not sure how many people new to grappling see the bigger picture...
 
i am not a complete grappler.

oh my god how will i ever live through this shame?
 
I train takedowns. I think every one should train takedowns.

But I always pull guard.
 
Hellboy31 said:
Sorry but this isn't true at all. We train take downs at my gym and if you think my first goal would be to take someone down on concrete, you're out of your mind. If I'm in a fight that HAPPENS to go to the ground, I have the ability to control most people from there - Tell me again how that's useless.

It seems pretty obvious to me that these "call out" threads for BJJ guys are really just practitioners of other grappling arts who pretty much know that in a submission grappling match, you're probably going to end up tapping to the bjj guy. Go sell crazy somewhere else.
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A takedown doesn't necessarily mean going down with them. If I was in a self-defence situation my initial aim would be to break his skull open with Osoto Gari and either stay standing or land in KOB. Besides going down with a hard throw or takedown is infinitely better than pulling guard.
 
In other news: the sky is still blue, water is still wet.
 
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