If we think about it logically of what it means to the GOAT, then you can never lose to a CAN

[FlyingDeathKick]

Is this supposed to be evidence? lmfao

I mean if you listen to commentary from any country besides the US and they had Pacquiao winning... I think those punch stats that the youtuber made weren't 100% accurate but are more accurate than Compubox's bs stats. Watch the video on compubox at the very least. Saying Cotto only landed 8 punches in rd 6 lmao. Also Mayweather used an illegal iv to rehydrate, that's not a conspiracy theory but a fact.

 

[funkjunky]

Never go full retard

He has a valid point

 

[TGArthur]

Not one fighter fits all the criteria of being the GOAT,

so put your mind at peace, and just accept there are multiple fighters that are considered the top of the food chain and be done with it.

 

[NoSmilez]

GOAT is a term MMA stole from boxing. It was used to market Fedor when he came to America. I honestly can't stand it at that time because it made no sense. Sport was too young to have a GOAT. It probably is still too young.

 

[DoubleTrouble]

I mean if you listen to commentary from any country besides the US and they had Pacquiao winning... I think those punch stats that the youtuber made weren't 100% accurate but are more accurate than Compubox's bs stats. Watch the video on compubox at the very least. Saying Cotto only landed 8 punches in rd 6 lmao. Also Mayweather used an illegal iv to rehydrate, that's not a conspiracy theory but a fact.

Yeah lets take random Youtuber counting punches over official sources lol. If the IV was illegal as you claim , why wasn't the fight declared a NC and Floyd banned? (because you're talking bollox).

You really are dumb.

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

Yeah lets take random Youtuber counting punches over official sources lol. If the IV was illegal as you claim , why wasn't the fight declared a NC and Floyd banned? (because you're talking bollox).

You really are dumb.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...nned-iv-manny-pacquiao-fight-according-report

 

[Robbocop]

It's interesting to compare the mentality of MMA records vs tennis records. You will find all the top players, including the greatest of all time, have at some point in their career lost to an unknown player or nobody. Djokovic, Federer, Nadal, you name it, all have lost to nobody's at some point in their career. True, they play many more matches than MMA fighters have fights in their career. However, this mentality that the biggest priority is to NEVER lose in MMA, and not achieve greatness by beating many great names and winning belts, in my opinion is not justified. Great fighters, and even GOATS, are allowed to lose on occasion to unknown or lesser known names.

That's how I think of it anyway. Same is true of great chess players, or greats/GOATS in any other sport, at some point in their career they have lost to nobody's or lesser players, and it is not seen as some deal breaker for their greatness.. Not sure why this mentality exists in MMA and perhaps boxing exclusively. The mentality does not exist in kickboxing for example.

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

(1) The IV was administered at Floyd Mayweather’s home after the weigh-in on May 1. USADA learned about the IV on that date.

(2) The 2015 WADA “Prohibited Substances and Methods List” states, “Intravenous infusions and/or injections of more than 50 ml per 6 hour period are prohibited except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions, surgical procedures, or clinical investigations.”

(3) The above-referenced prohibition is in effect at all times that the athlete is subject to testing. It exists because, in addition to being administered for the purpose of adding specific substances to a person’s body, an IV infusion can dilute or mask the presence of another substance that is already in the recipient’s system or might be added to it in the near future.

(4) Mayweather-Pacquiao was contested on May 2.

(5) Mayweather applied for a therapeutic use exemption on May 19 (seventeen days after the fight).

(6) USADA granted the therapeutic use exemption on May 20 (eighteen days after the fight).

(7) USADA did not notify the Nevada State Athletic Commission about the IV until May 21 (nineteen days after the fight).

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

Yeah lets take random Youtuber counting punches over official sources lol. If the IV was illegal as you claim , why wasn't the fight declared a NC and Floyd banned? (because you're talking bollox).

You really are dumb.

It wasn't declared a NC because USADA and Floyd are both corrupt af as well as boxing as a whole. Super corrupt.

 

[cade187]

You solved it TS.

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

Yeah lets take random Youtuber counting punches over official sources lol. If the IV was illegal as you claim , why wasn't the fight declared a NC and Floyd banned? (because you're talking bollox).

You really are dumb.

Listen to this bs explanation on it lol. The iv is banned because it can be used to mask things (peds for example) and Mayweather isn't known for cutting much weight so why did he need to use an iv? He works really hard and he's older so he needed to use that banned iv!! lol. Guys in the UFC cut crazy amounts of weight and don't need an iv, why did Mayweather use the iv?

 

[Fight Professor]

A fighter can have a bad night. As long as it is clear in the rematch who is the better fighter, rare avenged losses should not matter that much. I am talking about Cain vs JDS 1, GSP vs Serra 1, Conor vs Diaz 1 and such fights.

Sometimes fighters get very difficult opponents off the bat. I would not count early losses either.

Late career losses matter a lot more as the legacy is in the fighters hands. If they need money, a book or a movie deal, which is more likely for fighters with an exceptional record is a much smarter way to go about it. They can always train or compete in grappling if they want to be active.

 

[HHJ]

By your standard, Fedor would have a better GOAT case if he retired just when Pride ended, Ali would be better if he never returned from his suspension, Tyson if he just stayed in prison...
Taking risk and finding your limit is part of greatness

Everyone always said "dude shoulda retired before he lost to ____________"

Yet,whenever someone does retire on a win,they are seen as a coward,who doesnt want to take risks.

The fans can never be pleased.

 

[BFoe]

No, I disagree with all 3 of those things being relevant criteria.

 

[Diamondsareforever47]

Not it's not TS. The whole discussion about GOAT is all about everyone using different metrics to say why their candidate is the GOAT.

Some say it's better being a two division champ (with none or vrey few defenses), some say it's much better to have a shit ton of defenses, even if only in the same weight class.

You talk about not losing to cans. Imagine a guy who had 6 dominant title defenses, beat at least 10 ranked opponents, had most of his fights in a top promotion and had final record of 34-2 (the two loses being to cans when he was coming up and never avenged) versus a guy who spent the majority of his career in a smaller org, came to the main org, had like three fights (two ranked opponents), got the title in a controversial decision but never defended retiring soon after with a 19-0 record.

Who was better?

The smaller organization guy is irrelvant given his competition level

We are talking the UFC here.

 

[Diamondsareforever47]

By your standard, Fedor would have a better GOAT case if he retired just when Pride ended, Ali would be better if he never returned from his suspension, Tyson if he just stayed in prison...
Taking risk and finding your limit is part of greatness

Of course they made mistakes not retiring but the hardcore fan base cannot accept reality.

If Fedor never lost nobody could question him and if he did lose but avenge those losses then he would also be uncritiquable. The only critique Fans would say is he was not in the UFC

 

[Diamondsareforever47]

No, I disagree with all 3 of those things being relevant criteria.

Because no offense you and everyone else who does immediately thinks about your favoeite fighter who is disqualified by this metric.

Only GSP, Khabib and Izzy fans are going to like this

But it is true. I asked non MMA fans they agree.

Seriously holding competition constant.

If 1 UFC fighter lost to cans and or never avanged losses he has to be below the guy who beat him and is undefeated.

 

[Diamondsareforever47]

It's interesting to compare the mentality of MMA records vs tennis records. You will find all the top players, including the greatest of all time, have at some point in their career lost to an unknown player or nobody. Djokovic, Federer, Nadal, you name it, all have lost to nobody's at some point in their career. True, they play many more matches than MMA fighters have fights in their career. However, this mentality that the biggest priority is to NEVER lose in MMA, and not achieve greatness by beating many great names and winning belts, in my opinion is not justified. Great fighters, and even GOATS, are allowed to lose on occasion to unknown or lesser known names.

That's how I think of it anyway. Same is true of great chess players, or greats/GOATS in any other sport, at some point in their career they have lost to nobody's or lesser players, and it is not seen as some deal breaker for their greatness.. Not sure why this mentality exists in MMA and perhaps boxing exclusively. The mentality does not exist in kickboxing for example.

You cannot compare a non combat sport to a combat sport

 

[djason1988]

Absolutely retarded take. The overwhelming majority of fighters, including several GOAT candidates, have losses early or late in their career. This isn't boxing, where you first fight 20 guys with 2-36 records (unless you're named Khabib), then retire on your first loss. MMA is far more competitive, and talent gets fast tracked way faster. A poorly veiled Khabib Stan thread.

 

[Dog Gynecologist]

Everyone always said "dude shoulda retired before he lost to ____________"
Yet,whenever someone does retire on a win,they are seen as a coward,who doesnt want to take risks.
The fans can never be pleased.

I'm at least coherent and always on the second side. I like the idea of someone passing the torch and having lineal champion.
But i think it's not that polarized, there's a large field of possibilities between "being KOed in the first minute 3 times in a row by unranked fighters" and "retiring at 32 after 3 defenses".
What Aldo accomplished after being past his prime is more inspiring to me than having never really faced adversity.

MMA fans are too obsessed with the number associated with the record, other combat sport like Kickboxing and sumo have a healthier relationship with these number.