If we think about it logically of what it means to the GOAT, then you can never lose to a CAN

Diamondsareforever47

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Greatest Of All Time

GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Think about that

An all time GOAT would NEVER LOSE

A GOAT of any division should theoretically NEVER have lost to cans. The argument that ´´oh they were green and improved a lot, is null because the GOAT candidates like GSP, Adessanya, Fedor, Khabib either never lost or never lost to cans. When you start MMA you are a can fighting other cans unless you are thrown into the wolves like Brock Lesnar was. So the idea that you the supposed GREATEST OF ALL TIME would lose is just poor when we have greats who never lost to a can.

A GOAT of any division should also theoretically NEVER lose to those from weight classes below them, but can lose to those from weight classes above them. Losing to someone larger only hurts your Pound For Pound (P4P) GOAT argument but it will not hurt your division GOAT status.

A GOAT of any division should also IF HE does lose, should AVENGE those losses (as GSP did)

If a division is so tough that nobody has ever NOT lost to a can, and has been defeated by smaller opponents and or NOT avenged their losses then you have to look at who did they lose to and how far back was it. In their current prime would such a loss theoretically happen? I.e., would Stipe in his peak prime have lost to Struve? It is unlikely he would lose to Struve but he never got to avenge that loss like he did the loss to JDS or the fluke loss to Cormier which he avenged 2x.
 
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You can’t lose period. This is why Khabib is GOAT

Not losing period is better than losing and avenging your losses so I do not disagree. Taking emotion and favoritism out of this it is the most logical argument. Either NEVER LOSE. If everyone else in your division also has losses then you ONLY losing to larger fighters from another division or avenging your losses matter next in importance.

You also can't run away from the division. That's why he's not.

Let us say though for argument sake he defended the belt 5x then retired undefeated. What then? Logically NOT losing has to weigh very high.
 
Experience varies greatly. Some fighters have a lot of experience when they enter MMA. Others have very little training when they jump into it. Saying somebody that entered MMA after only training for a year and lost to a can can't be a GOAT contender because of that is just stupid. Also anything can happen in MMA.
 
I don't know too much about Matt Serra but wasn't he a can?[/QUOTE

No. He was a champion and has a positive record. A can is someone with a .500 record (same amount of wins and losses) or below .500 (more losses than wins) record that is commonly what is referred to as a can.
 
Experience varies greatly. Some fighters have a lot of experience when they enter MMA. Others have very little training when they jump into it. Saying somebody that entered MMA after only training for a year and lost to a can can't be a GOAT contender because of that is just stupid. Also anything can happen in MMA.

Yes but some metrics need to exist.

Pretend you are not a fan of the sport or you love every fighter equally.

Rationally there is a hiearchy

1) Never losing

2) Losing but only to those from a division above you. Thus it does not effect your DIVISONAL GOAT Status

3) Avenging your losses which were NOT to cans

4) Having very few like under 2 losses that you are unable to avenge but having a very stacked defense rate.
 
No. He was a champion and has a positive record. A can is someone with a .500 record (same amount of wins and losses) or below .500 (more losses than wins) record that is commonly what is referred to as a can.
How about Anderson Silva. He lost to Daiju Takase
 
Yes but some metrics need to exist.

Pretend you are not a fan of the sport or you love every fighter equally.

Rationally there is a hiearchy

1) Never losing

2) Losing but only to those from a division above you. Thus it does not effect your DIVISONAL GOAT Status

3) Avenging your losses which were NOT to cans

4) Having very few like under 2 losses that you are unable to avenge but having a very stacked defense rate.
For me not losing is like a bonus. If 2 fighters are even in accolades and the 1 is undefeated then I'd give that fighter the slight edge. However even if 1 guy has like 20 losses but went on a record setting win streak, defended their belt a 10 or 11 times etc.. I'd certainly put that guy ahead of somebody with a smaller streak and only 2 or 3 defenses. For this same reason I rank Pacquiao ahead of Mayweather.

Also if we are only counting Divisional losses, Volk is undefeated at 145 and arguably beat Makhachev so he deserves a mention by your criteria. So many greats in both boxing and MMA suffered losses in their early and late careers tho. Khabib and GSP didn't stick around like Silva did.
 
Well then what metric do you have for determining a GOAT? Say for argument sake you believe in the idea of a GOAT of each division, and the idea of a P4P GOAT and an all time GOAT
I’ve seen you in every Fedor thread, why bother repeating what other posters have said when you’re incapable of getting it? I think you get it, you’re just trolling. Not interested, I won’t clutter your thread up, goodbye.
 
How about Anderson Silva. He lost to Daiju Takase

Yeah Anderson Silva is disqualified to me for losing to 3 cans to my memory and then the PED´s and then the fact he never avenged his losses. At the time at MW he was the GOAT by default because he demolished everyone else but once people like Weidman and Adesanya showed up well yeah the arguments for him to be GOAT just went away.

Say what you want about Izzy beating older Anderson Silva, Izzy still beat him and has never tested positive and was also new to MMA and has yet to lose to a can. Weidman beat Anderson 2x and had a decent title defense run and has never lost to a can and only has fought killers but of course I rank Weidman below Izzy in terms of MW GOAT.
 
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There is no such thing as a GOAT, and people who argue about GOATS are known as GOAT Herders. You heard it here 1st.
 
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Also (again I know it's boxing) but Pacquiao lost to a dude that was 11-4-5 at the time and is now 15-8-6. Meanwhile Pacquiao went on to set the record for most belts won in different weight classes, oldest boxer in the lighter weight classes to win a belt etc..
 
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