Opinion "If there is no God, everything is permitted."

[BearGrounds]

Tried this thread a while ago in the 'berry and it got dumped, so I figured I'd give it a run here and see if it's allowed to let rock. If not, I'd appreciate whatever mod dumps it to provide me with an explanation as to why, because despite requesting one the last time, it was never given.

Contention as to whether or not Dostoevsky wrote exactly that aside, do you agree or disagree?

Personally, I tend to agree. If there is no God, no afterlife, no judgment after it is all said and done, then what exactly is the point in restraining oneself from committing any atrocity or foul deed to further your own standing while alive?

Is it merely the fear of others coming for your head that prevents you from living as though anything is permitted? In other words, is being fearful of others crushing you for trying to live in such a manner, thus making your life harder while alive, the motivation to toe a certain line?

Or do most people who deny God, on some deep level, still fear that they may eventually be judged for how they've lived, and as a result, live a life imposed upon by "moral" restraints?

Because as I see it, and perhaps I'm missing something, if inevitably there is only nothingness, nothing really matters. Unless you believe humanity will go on forever, even wanting some kind of prosperous future for mankind is a fruitless pursuit, if there is no afterlife. You won't be around to see it or enjoy it, and inevitably neither will anybody else.

Discuss.

 

[TheComebackKid]

"Because if there's no moral Law Giver, there's no moral law. If there's no moral law, there's no good. If there's no good, there's no evil."

- Ravi Zacharias

 

[stellarborg]

empathy

/thread

 

[TheComebackKid]

empathy

/thread

Sociopathy

Thread reopened

 

[PrinceOfPain]

empathy

/thread

So.... hoping that the person whose shoes you place yourself in has the same sense of right or wrong as you do?

 

[scoopj]

I agree. If it were proven that this is all there is, no afterlife, morality is rendered meaningless.

 

[BearGrounds]

empathy

/thread

Why bother having empathy if there is only nothingness awaiting us all?

 

[IDL]

What if you worship a Satanic creature as your god?

Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law

Or take Frankism for example, where committing sins was part of the religion

"Frank claimed that "all laws and teachings will fall" and following antinomianism asserted that one's most important personal obligation of every person was the transgression of every boundary"

 

[5H3RD0G]

Everything is permitted when people don't stand for what's right and let it go on because they aren't educated enough yet to solve the problems of the current time thus cannot conjure up courage without purpose.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Morality preceded religion.

One can be moral and upstanding without faith and/or religion or without the assistance of God.

If belief in God makes you an upstanding person, all the power to you.

If you don't need god or religion to be moral, all the power to you.

Cheers, next round is on me...to all of us, moral men.

 

[TheComebackKid]

What if you worship a Satanic creature as your god?

Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law

Or take https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankism for example, where committing sins was part of the religion

Right but if we're talking about the true God and not a made up one like satan then there still exists an objective moral law even if satan personally rejects it.

 

[ehtheist]

In an absolute sense, yes. Obviously. God, of course, being taken as interchangeable for some sort of absolute font of value.

 

[BearGrounds]

What if you worship a Satanic creature as your god?

Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law

Or take Frankism for example, where committing sins was part of the religion

"Frank claimed that "all laws and teachings will fall" and following antinomianism asserted that one's most important personal obligation of every person was the transgression of every boundary"

Then they have a God. Therefore they take their cues from that which they believe to be their God. So what's permitted, or rewarded, as they see it, is handed down from that entity.

 

[Cmart]

Laws would still prohibit rape, murder, theft... at least the atheists would have you believe they would. And that we'd have a polite society, not a post apocalyptic hellhole.

Without laws or morals, i would have murdered at least two people today alone.

 

[BearGrounds]

Morality preceded religion.

One can be moral and upstanding without faith and/or religion or without the assistance of God.

If belief in God makes you an upstanding person, all the power to you.

If you don't need god or religion to be moral, all the power to you.

Cheers, next round is on me...to all of us, moral men.

Okay, but what is the point in being moral, then? If inevitably there is only nothingness, what's the point in living by a moral code?

 

[IDL]

Then they have a God. Therefore they take their cues from that which they believe to be their God. So what's permitted, or rewarded, as they see it, is handed down from that entity.

Yes but everything is permitted (until the true god is revealed, that is)

"Netanel Lederberg claims that Frank had a Gnostic philosophy wherein there was a "true God" whose existence was hidden by a "false God". This "true God" could allegedly only be revealed through a total destruction of the social and religious structures created by the "false God"

 

[stellarborg]

Why bother having empathy if there is only nothingness awaiting us all?

that's what we do

we feel emotions

you might as well ask why bother eating

 

[TheComebackKid]

that's what we do

we feel emotions

you might as well ask why bother eating

So is it your position that morality is established and defined according to our emotions? What if two people have two different emotions about something...who is right?

 

[Fatchops]

I'm looking forward to a theist 'we need god for morals' circle jerk. I'll contribute.

 

[The Diplomat]

One does not need to follow any certain religion to have morals and the little voice in their heads to tell them right from wrong. There was a concept of "right" and "wrong" before the concept of religion, although right and wrong has been subject to change through out history. Everything isn't permitted due to a lack of a deity, modern civilization and societal norms will dictate laws of the people, but the people themselves must dictate morality on a case by case basis. Is the phile priest more moral due to believing in God? Is the atheist charity worker less moral? Nothing is black and white, obviously.