If STEM subjects are taught like Jiu-jitsu...

[icemanliddell]

Would there be more people willing to graduate in these courses?

Give students more room to retake difficult courses until they could pass them. I believe learning would be much easier and fun when there are more room to make mistakes. And arguably more fruitful as well. Some people learn a bit slowly than others, but would end up making great progress.

Ok. Medicine is a different beast. But I'd like to hear your comments.

 

[HIMBOB]

You can retake any subjects you fail you just have to pay again.

But I do like that BJJ doesn't have group assignments.

 

[Zanatos333]

In my experience, most people who struggle in stem fields should have been pushed into different fields(e.g. trades). I don't know anyone who really wanted to do something in stem and failed because the material was too hard.

 

[j123]

But then they would teach the equivalent of unpractical stuff like guard pulling and buttscooting

 

[Fedorgasm]

So every time I get a physics problem wrong I get choked or armbarred?

I think you're right. That's exactly how we should teach STEM

 

[Renard]

Learning speed is fluid intelligence i.e. IQ. These jobs require people that can think quickly and they often hold the lives of other people in their hands. A civil engineer who fucks up a structure will kill people. An aerospacial engineer who produces a faulty design, or even simply a design that fails to account for a tiny improbable situation or set of circumstances, will kill people. If there's a zombie plague, a microbiologist will have to find the cure. It's probably fine to have derp accountants and software engineers though.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

These classes can be retaken and frequently are. Two my cousin three tries to become an engineer but he's there now. His parents spent a lot but he figured it out.

Guy just needed to mature. As a kid he wasn't ready for that kind of schooling. Some people are. Not him. Women liked him too much.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

We need to figure out way to make STEM education cheaper, so more people can fail, and try and succeed without breaking the bank.

We should get rid of the whole large University type higher education concept. At that stage, you really ought to hire a private tutor to teach you what you want. Instead we pay up the wazoo to be in large boring lectures, that are very impersonal, and never meet anyone's expectations exactly, because it has to encompass like 100 or more students at once.

Plus these professors suck at teaching, and have no competition, and no reason to get better, if they even care about teaching well.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

I don't know if related....

The classroom format just doesn't work realistically in the sense that each person has different learning speeds, motivation and methods- it's just the best people can assimilate to as a group and how educators can monetize that exchange.

I am most comfortable learning when I am in my room talking to myself out loud in my underwear and rolling in my bed. You think I can ever do that in a classroom?

 

[rj144]

Plus these professors suck at teaching, and have no competition, and no reason to get better, if they even care about teaching well.

I beg to differ.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

In my experience, most people who struggle in stem fields should have been pushed into different fields(e.g. trades). I don't know anyone who really wanted to do something in stem and failed because the material was too hard.

Agreed.. I have a co-worker who is working on a math degree and is currently taking 300 and 400 level math courses and passing them. She works in a nuclear power plant. She couldn't remember how to do long division on paper. She couldn't do it. Dead serious.

So yeah... You really don't have to be that smart to get a STEM degree. If you stick with it, you'll get there.

 

[icemanliddell]

Licensing is different, of course.

Learning speed is fluid intelligence i.e. IQ. These jobs require people that can think quickly and they often hold the lives of other people in their hands. A civil engineer who fucks up a structure will kill people. An aerospacial engineer who produces a faulty design, or even simply a design that fails to account for a tiny improbable situation or set of circumstances, will kill people. If there's a zombie plague, a microbiologist will have to find the cure. It's probably fine to have derp accountants and software engineers though.

Agreed.. I have a co-worker who is working on a math degree and is currently taking 300 and 400 level math courses and passing them. She works in a nuclear power plant. She couldn't remember how to do long division on paper. She couldn't do it. Dead serious.

So yeah... You really don't have to be that smart to get a STEM degree. If you stick with it, you'll get there.

Fuck. That's really fucked up. Or maybe she's just trolling you?

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Licensing is different, of course.



Fuck. That's really fucked up. Or maybe she's just trolling you?

Nah, dude. She misunderstands things and makes some mistakes so frequently that it amazes all of us that she qualified for our job and made it through our school. She isn't a good learner. She just tries harder than anyone else I know.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

We need to figure out way to make STEM education cheaper, so more people can fail, and try and succeed without breaking the bank.

We should get rid of the whole large University type higher education concept. At that stage, you really ought to hire a private tutor to teach you what you want. Instead we pay up the wazoo to be in large boring lectures, that are very impersonal, and never meet anyone's expectations exactly, because it has to encompass like 100 or more students at once.

Plus these professors suck at teaching, and have no competition, and no reason to get better, if they even care about teaching well.

I agree with your first two paragraphs.

Third one not so much. Most professors I had seemed like they cared. Most, not all

 

[AznTrojan]

lol.. sorry for people like me fucking up the curve..

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

lol no. efficient teaching of martial arts has a long way to go.

 

[DoomPatrol]

So every time I get a physics problem wrong I get choked or armbarred?

I think you're right. That's exactly how we should teach STEM

You didn't use proper significant figures!

BAM! ARM BAR!​

You didn't get balance your forces!

Rear Naked Choke until you piss yourself!
​

I think the kids will definitely start doing their reading before class!

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

In my experience, most people who struggle in stem fields should have been pushed into different fields(e.g. trades). I don't know anyone who really wanted to do something in stem and failed because the material was too hard.

i cant even count the number of undergrad engineer majors i knew that either dropped out or changed majors because the coursework was too difficult. drop out rates at competitive institutions are often very high.

We should get rid of the whole large University type higher education concept. At that stage, you really ought to hire a private tutor to teach you what you want. Instead we pay up the wazoo to be in large boring lectures, that are very impersonal, and never meet anyone's expectations exactly, because it has to encompass like 100 or more students at once.

Plus these professors suck at teaching, and have no competition, and no reason to get better, if they even care about teaching well.

completely disagree. competitive stem students at the undergrad level shouldnt even NEED lectures. you should develop educational maturity to learn a source material on your own, with occasional guidance. people make the mistake of thinking university professors job description is to teach classes. thats ONE part of it, and particularly for stem majors it can be a minuscule part. professors in stem that make money do so because of the research labs they run that generates publications and patents under the universitys name.

another misconception is that you pay tuition to get an education. you pay tuition to attempt to get a degree. the education part is up to you.

 

[Zanatos333]

i cant even count the number of undergrad engineer majors i knew that either dropped out or changed majors because the coursework was too difficult. drop out rates at competitive institutions are often very high.

The number of engineers who drop out is very high. I hear the same about nursing but that is pretty far away from my field. My point was more that the people dropping out of engineering probably didn't belong there in the first place. I know plenty of people who went into engineering as a default choice. I don't know of one who graduated with an engineering degree. I think we do a poor job of guiding students in high school. Everyone being pushed into college is a bad idea. I think that is part of the reason why drop out rates are so high in stem fields. If you are doing something you are unsure about, you will give it up once you feel resistance.

completely disagree. competitive stem students at the undergrad level shouldnt even NEED lectures. you should develop educational maturity to learn a source material on your own, with occasional guidance. people make the mistake of thinking university professors job description is to teach classes. thats ONE part of it, and particularly for stem majors it can be a minuscule part. professors in stem that make money do so because of the research labs they run that generates publications and patents under the universitys name.

another misconception is that you pay tuition to get an education. you pay tuition to attempt to get a degree. the education part is up to you.

Lectures are a necessity once you get to upper level undergraduate work. The source material doesn't even attempt to cover everything a lecture would. There are enormous gaps in the material that need to be filled in or derived. I can only speak for physics classes so maybe its different in different fields. Getting through a standard calculus based physics class that covers intro mechanics and intro e&m with no lectures should be relatively easy for bright students. Getting through quantum mechanics and e&m without lectures is almost impossible. I get nervous if I'm teaching a class and no student ask questions, it usually means they have no clue about what is going on. The really smart students ask questions all time and they are usually really difficult to answer.

Another reason they get payed well is that they can simply go outside the university system and get payed well. They have real skills. You hear English professors complain all the time about how much they get payed compared to professors in stem or business. They complain because they don't understand basic economics.

 

[Zanatos333]

We need to figure out way to make STEM education cheaper, so more people can fail, and try and succeed without breaking the bank.

We should get rid of the whole large University type higher education concept. At that stage, you really ought to hire a private tutor to teach you what you want. Instead we pay up the wazoo to be in large boring lectures, that are very impersonal, and never meet anyone's expectations exactly, because it has to encompass like 100 or more students at once.

Plus these professors suck at teaching, and have no competition, and no reason to get better, if they even care about teaching well.

You would probably make the entire process more expensive. How many people are qualified to teach a stem class? How many people want to take that class? By only allowing one qualified person to tutor one student, there are thousands who wouldn't be able to find a tutor. A professional tutor in that subject might be able to privately tutor a number of different students but they would never be able to tutor a hundred you would get in a lecture.

There is a reason why small class sizes are used in ranking a university. You usually pay more for it.