If Poirier actually beats McGregor, where do you rank him as an all time LW..?

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Number of top ten wins at Lightweight (based on FightMatrix)

1. Gomi (8)
2. Henderson (7)
3. Alvarez (7)
4. Penn (7)
5. Aoki (7)
6. Nurmagomedov (6)
7. dos Anjos (4)
8. Edgar (4)
9. Ferguson (4)
10. Poirier (4)

So if Poirier wins, I could see moving him from #10 to #7.

I was about to say 7-10 range.

 

[TheChosenKing]

It does. So more title defences doesn’t always mean a greater fighter.

Poirier has better wins than Eddie and Pettis, less loses and he beat them both, therefore he should be ranked higher.

Thats subjective. Both Pettis and Alvarez have more top 10 wins, more titles in more organizations, and more title defenses. They also have had more impact on the sport as a whole. They both have been ranked higher for longer. Therefore they rank higher all time.

Theres really no argument for Dustin over those guys.

 

[BFoe]

I don’t agree with that. He was a top contender during one of the least active times for the LW belt. Between McGregor holding onto it, and khabib taking 1 fight every 6-12 months....not to mention khabib being incredibly dominant.

So where do you have him ranked? For me, I’d say bottom of the Top 10 or maybe just outside the Top 10 all time. And I don’t mean to sound like a Conor hater, but Conor’s best accomplishments are at FW, so a win over Conor at LW doesn’t raise Poirier’s stock a ton for me. It would raise it some of course, but nothing drastic.

 

[acannxr]

Really that’s all you got? You’re a sad little man.

Resorting to ad hominem attacks only demonstrates a lack of confidence in your argument.

I just proved to you that there is at least 1160 pro LWs in US alone. You can’t deny that.

The fact that the site still has Lesnar ranked proves that it requires several years for Tapology to remove inactive fighters from their rankings, which is thereby going to inflate the totals; consider yourself denied .

For a long part of Gomi’s career there was less than 100 pro LW’s in the whole world.

And yet Tapology only lists 217 Lightweights in their primary rankings <Lmaoo>.
https://www.tapology.com/rankings/c...ght-mma-fighters-155-pounds?page=5&ranking=10

The level of competition back then was incomparably weaker than it is today, so Gomi’s wins are mostly irrelevant.

I never once argued that the level of competition back then was just as good as it is today, only that it wasn't weak as Sherdoggers have been trying to make it out to be (such as yourself); the competition back then was comparable to fighters such as Yves Edwards, Josh Thomson, Gilbert Melendez, and Shinya Aoki (and most of them remained relevant up to the mid-2010's).

That’s a fact

Clearly you don't know the difference between an opinion and a fact.

 

[moosaev]

Still behind Khabib,Tony,BJ and Benson.
Probably #5 or #6 depending how'd you rank Edgar

Tony's resume is horribly overrated, and it continues to age poorly.

 

[moosaev]

I was just playing around, but he cannot be better than ppl that actually won a title and fucking defended it...come on guys. If this were a bar and I'd had a few gin n tonics there would be fists thrown

Not all titles are created equal. Eddie Alvarez is not better than Poirier. If Khabib doesn't blow out both knees and doesn't get sidelined for 2 yrs, neither RDA nor Alvarez would've ever been champions. Poirier meanwhile happened to get his title shot against perhaps the most dominant fighter in mma history. A huge part of winning a title is just dumb ass luck.

 

[Pakman]

Number of top ten wins at Lightweight (based on FightMatrix)

1. Gomi (8)
2. Henderson (7)
3. Alvarez (7)
4. Penn (7)
5. Aoki (7)
6. Nurmagomedov (6)
7. dos Anjos (4)
8. Edgar (4)
9. Ferguson (4)
10. Poirier (4)

So if Poirier wins, I could see moving him from #10 to #7.

Ty.

Was gonna ask how so many people have these top 5/10s of LWs of all time n somehow leave out Gomi lol

Whether or not it lasted long, the stretch from the loss to BJ to the Diaz loss, was unreal.

His wins over Kawajiri and Mach at the time are better than any wins Tony has had ever (aside from maybe RDA)

 

[leatherneck]

Number of top ten wins at Lightweight (based on FightMatrix)

1. Gomi (8)
2. Henderson (7)
3. Alvarez (7)
4. Penn (7)
5. Aoki (7)
6. Nurmagomedov (6)
7. dos Anjos (4)
8. Edgar (4)
9. Ferguson (4)
10. Poirier (4)

So if Poirier wins, I could see moving him from #10 to #7.

this dude and FightMatrix.

the owner of the site mustve caught @acannxr with a dead hooker in the trunk.

 

[felmmando]

He doesn’t need Conor on his resume to be considered a Top 5 great LW. IMO the Holloway win was more impressive.

Inb4 “Holloway’s a FW....”, shut up basically the entire current top 5 are past FW’s.

I don't believe you; I think it's just him and McG. What other top LW competed at FW?

And regardless of his size in the past, Poirier had a pretty obvious edge on Holloway when he beat him.

 

[Fatback96]

I don't believe you; I think it's just him and McG. What other top LW competed at FW?

And regardless of his size in the past, Poirier had a pretty obvious edge on Holloway when he beat him.

Conor has only fought at LW once in his entire UFC career, and that was 5 years ago. What could a win over that possibly do for your legacy as a top LW?

 

[felmmando]

Conor has only fought at LW once in his entire UFC career, and that was 5 years ago.

You are mistaken; he fought at LW two years and two months ago.

 

[GOATtalks]

Thats subjective. Both Pettis and Alvarez have more top 10 wins, more titles in more organizations, and more title defenses. They also have had more impact on the sport as a whole. They both have been ranked higher for longer. Therefore they rank higher all time.

Theres really no argument for Dustin over those guys.

First of all beating both of them is already an argument for being ranked higher than them.

Not only did Pettis lose to Poirier, but he also lost Max, Alvarez and Ferreira.
Poirier beat all of those guys. That’s another argument in favour for Poirier.

Poirier’s UFC record is 18-5-1, when Pettis is 11-9. That’s another argument for Poirier.

Pettis best wins at LW?

Benson
Melendez
Cerrone

Poirier’s best wins at LW?

Alvarez
Gaethje
Holloway
Pettis

Poirier wins this one again. The only thing Pettis has over Poirier is being an undisputed champion with one title defence. But we all know he wouldn’t even be a champ if he had to fight Khabib for the title like Poirier had to.

Conclusion

Poirier > Pettis

And don’t even talk about significance to the sport as that would make Conor the undisputed GOAT of MMA

 

[TheChosenKing]

First of all beating both of them is already an argument for being ranked higher than them.

Sure but it's not a very good one unless you're going to say Chan Sung Jung > Dustin Poirier. MMAth doesn't work.

Not only did Pettis lose to Poirier, but he also lost Max, Alvarez and Ferreira.
Poirier beat all of those guys. That’s another argument in favour for Poirier.

Poirier’s UFC record is 18-5-1, when Pettis is 11-9. That’s another argument for Poirier.

Actually Pettis is 19-8. At his peak he was 17-2. You're judging Pettis on his record since declining which is short sighted. Everyone declines at some point and end up dropping fights. Its about what a fighter does before the inevitable decline. Pettis was 17-2 at his peak having only lost 2 close decisions. And he won two major belts.

Pettis best wins at LW?

Benson
Melendez
Cerrone

Poirier’s best wins at LW?

Alvarez
Gaethje
Holloway
Pettis

Poirier beat Pettis and Alvarez late in their careers after their declines. Pettis beat Benson 2x and Melendez while still in their primes. He also beat Cerrone before he declined.

Poirier wins this one again. The only thing Pettis has over Poirier is being an undisputed champion with one title defence. But we all know he wouldn’t even be a champ if he had to fight Khabib for the title like Poirier had to.

Conclusion

Poirier > Pettis

And don’t even talk about significance to the sport as that would make Conor the undisputed GOAT of MMA

I can't tell you what might have happened only what did. What did happen was that Pettis won the belt and Poirier didn't.

 

[GOATtalks]

Resorting to ad hominem attacks only demonstrates a lack of confidence in your argument.


The fact that the site still has Lesnar ranked proves that it requires several years for Tapology to remove inactive fighters from their rankings, which is thereby going to inflate the totals; consider yourself denied .


And yet Tapology only lists 217 Lightweights in their primary rankings <Lmaoo>.
https://www.tapology.com/rankings/c...ght-mma-fighters-155-pounds?page=5&ranking=10


I never once argued that the level of competition back then was just as good as it is today, only that it wasn't weak as Sherdoggers have been trying to make it out to be (such as yourself); the competition back then was comparable to fighters such as Yves Edwards, Josh Thomson, Gilbert Melendez, and Shinya Aoki (and most of them remained relevant up to the mid-2010's).


Clearly you don't know the difference between an opinion and a fact.

You’re trying hard to derail this conversation because you lost an argument.

I proved to you that there is more than 1000 pro LWs in US alone. Which means that are probably at least 10 000 pro LWs in the world. And probably at least the same amount of active amateurs. In early 2000’s there was couple of hundred pro LWs in the world at best. That means Gomi’s competition come from a very limited talent pool and it’s pointless to count those wins as real top10 opponents.

Also Gomi wasn’t out of prime when he fought in UFC. He wasn’t just good enough

 

[VAfan]

why is conor only under 'upcoming', and not listed as a loss? you do realize they've fought already, right?

if he beats conor, i'll have him at 1-1. with an almost guaranteed rubber match on the horizon.

 

[GOATtalks]

Sure but it's not a very good one unless you're going to say Chan Sung Jung > Dustin Poirier. MMAth doesn't work.



Actually Pettis is 19-8. At his peak he was 17-2. You're judging Pettis on his record since declining which is short sighted. Everyone declines at some point and end up dropping fights. Its about what a fighter does before the inevitable decline. Pettis was 17-2 at his peak having only lost 2 close decisions. And he won two major belts.



Poirier beat Pettis and Alvarez late in their careers after their declines. Pettis beat Benson 2x and Melendez while still in their primes. He also beat Cerrone before he declined.



I can't tell you what might have happened only what did. What did happen was that Pettis won the belt and Poirier didn't.

It’s not mma math, it’s common sense. When Poirier has beaten Pettis and 3 other guys who beat Pettis as well, it’s dumb to say there are no arguments to rank Poirier higher than Pettis.

Pettis record in UFC is 11-9. That includes all of his fights in UFC, including his title fights. He really only has a 55% success rate at UFC.

Poirier beat prime Gaethje and prime Max. He beat Pettis and Alvarez just 2 years after they were champions. Both were coming of good wins when Poirier beat them. And it’s not like those two were long reigning old champions who suddenly fell out of their primes. Alvarez was lucky to get a shot and couldn’t even defend it.

Would you actually favour Pettis to beat Khabib?

 

[Deadwing88]

why is conor only under 'upcoming', and not listed as a loss? you do realize they've fought already, right?

if he beats conor, i'll have him at 1-1. with an almost guaranteed rubber match on the horizon.

Actually read the OP and you'll notice I've listed his record at LW..

 

[Ghostoftheville]

Number of top ten wins at Lightweight (based on FightMatrix)

1. Gomi (8)
2. Henderson (7)
3. Alvarez (7)
4. Penn (7)
5. Aoki (7)
6. Nurmagomedov (6)
7. dos Anjos (4)
8. Edgar (4)
9. Ferguson (4)
10. Poirier (4)

So if Poirier wins, I could see moving him from #10 to #7.

Henderson was one of my favorite fighters, but I honestly don't see him as one of the best ever. Shows what I know

 

[acannxr]

You’re trying hard to derail this conversation because you lost an argument.

I'm not derailing, I simply picked apart the basis of your argument.

I proved to you that there is more than 1000 pro LWs in US alone.

Tapology doesn't update their rankings for several years (Lesnar is still ranked, for instance) which means those "1000 pro LWs" is nothing more than the result of inflation; and Tapology's primary rankings only have 200-something Lightweights listed, but you don't want to talk about that .

Which means that are probably at least 10 000 pro LWs in the world.

And this is nothing more than an assumption and leap in logic based on faulty data.

And probably at least the same amount of active amateurs.

Another assumption and leap in logic based on faulty data.

In early 2000’s there was couple of hundred pro LWs in the world at best.

Based on what data? If FightMatrix removed inactive fighters from their rankings at the same pace as Tapology, their numbers would be inflated just as badly <Lmaoo>.

That means Gomi’s competition come from a very limited talent pool and it’s pointless to count those wins as real top10 opponents.

Except Gomi's competition defeated fighters who were relevant as late as 2015, and you conveniently ignored that point because it debunks the narrative you're trying to perpetuate.

Also Gomi wasn’t out of prime when he fought in UFC. He wasn’t just good enough

Yeah, because 12 years of fighting, 12 years of training camps, and 37 professional fights means nothing in determining Gomi's prime because him being 31 years old is the only factor anyone should consider.

You know who else fell off in their late 20's or early 30's?

Dominick Cruz
Renan Barao
Cody Garbrandt
Jose Aldo
Chad Mendes
B.J. Penn
Frankie Edgar
Urijah Faber
Benson Henderson
Anthony Pettis
Rafael dos Anjos
Eddie Alvarez
Jon Fitch
Jake Shields
Carlos Condit
Johny Hendricks
Rory MacDonald

I could keep going, but like I said before, there's a mountain of evidence where plenty of fighters in their early 30's fell off.

Then there's the data for the 9 year rule, where most fighters noticeably decline after their 9th year in MMA regardless of age:

Fighters’ Winning Percentage Against Quality Opponents

• Year 1: 41.6%
• Year 2: 51.9%
• Year 3: 58.8%
• Year 4: 64.0%
• Year 5: 54.4%
• Year 6: 52.8%
• Year 7: 62.1%
• Year 8: 56.4%
• Year 9: 57.6%
• Year 10: 47.3%
• Year 11: 52.1%
• Year 12: 46.7%
• Year 13: 40.0%

https://www.fightopinion.com/2011/06/19/9-year-rule-mma-ufc/

 

[gevoudane]

Wont really change my all time ranking for him unless he can win a belt, or get more significant victories.