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If Palhares weren't so ruthless, would he be as effective?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by JudoYourDayUp, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. JudoYourDayUp Orange Belt

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    First off, I want to say that this is just a thought experiment. I dislike unsportsmanlike conduct as much as the next fella, and either way this stuff can't be allowed to continue.

    That said, I was just wondering to myself if Palhares would be as effective in MMA as he has been if he weren't notorious for destroying people's ligaments and playing loose with the rules.

    I'd bet that a lot of people go into fights with him sort of terrified of him grabbing onto one of their legs. Even just in the back of their minds, this has got to play a part into their mental state and how they fight. Also how quick they are to tap once a sub is on. As a contrast, someone like Damian Maiaa definitely has people worried about getting taken to the ground, but not for the same life threatening reasons.

    What do you think?
     
  2. mattemate Brown Belt

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    Yes, I would be worried about his ruthless eye gouges.
     
  3. Spoonman7 Red Belt

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    i think he would be, the skill is obviously there. but his constant holding of submissions is not a good thing. And he gives the same excuse every time
     
  4. Mixfight Banned Banned

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    Palharres has a mental disorder.
     
  5. trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    There's always that one white or blue belt in every gym who isn't that great overall, but who can tap even the black belts every once in a while via his aggressive and relentless commitment to the highest percentage submissions (kimura, americana, guillotine, heel hook), and who have poor defense but are also very difficult to submit. Palhares and perhaps also Dean Lister seem to be the most successful examples of this style, which it seems like you must be born with to make work.
     
  6. Russky Green Belt

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    ??? How's that possible? An aggressive opponent might be more difficult to get control, but once you get into position he is full of opening.
     
  7. chunglii No Me Duele

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    If he did everything the same like he's currently doing, but when the ref touches him he instantly lets go (like a normal person), he'd be perfect.
     
  8. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

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    He doesn't get subs because he's ruthless. He gets the sub because he's actually good. They don't tap because he's ruthless. They tap because he actually got the sub. If he let go of subs on time, he's still be just as effective.

    His kimura on Shields was a thing of beauty. He's a great fighter. He's just a dick.
     
  9. trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    You don't have a guy in your gym with a giant neck who nobody can tap even though his guard is as open as the Mojave desert?
     
  10. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    so basically toquinho and dean lister have white to blue belt skills, but they are good with hhs kimuras, and have poor defense but they are just hard to sbu because they have big necks?

    what can I say to this....
     
  11. Russky Green Belt

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    We have big guys, but noone like that.

    We have one black belt who chokes me with cross collar choke from my closed guard (!) and I cannot do anything with that. :eek: His biceps are bigger than my waist, and he is 2x my weight. I do not think this is what you mean.
     
  12. Zefram Cochrane Follow me on Pictogram

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Palhares and Lister have white to blue belt skills but they are good with kimuras and heel hooks and have poor defense but they are just hard to sub because they have big necks.
     
  14. mattemate Brown Belt

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    You win the internet.
     
  15. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    I knew it.
     
  16. RemyR Red Belt Platinum Member

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    Brb training neck
     
  17. Coati858 Old, slow & short

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    :)

    Lest we forget, the medical report shows Palhares did get Shields' leg (unless the knee injury was preexisting), but didn't get the tap. So it's not that surprising he dialed the kimura up to eleven to get the tap when he knew it was the only route to winning.
     
  18. TrogBjj White Belt

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    Palhares is a maniac but lets be honest its the reason people watch him. I think he has a psychological edge because people are legitimately afraid of serious injury in their bouts against him.

    That being said it should not be tolerated, full time professional athletes are side lined for long periods of time due to him not letting go.
     
  19. JudoYourDayUp Orange Belt

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    Yeah, I mean I think you're probably right. I just feel like it's maybe given him a psychological edge too. Almost like beating up the biggest guy in prison on the first day.
     
  20. mysticdragonbjj Blue Belt

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    To OP, yes. Paul Harris would still be effective.

    I've never heard of him holding subs too long in his own gym. I also know that when learning jiu jitsu, one thing you learn is when you have it and your opponent stops fighting, you should be feeling for a tap. He knows this too.
     

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