If Palhares weren't so ruthless, would he be as effective?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by JudoYourDayUp, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. JudoYourDayUp

    JudoYourDayUp Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    64
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    First off, I want to say that this is just a thought experiment. I dislike unsportsmanlike conduct as much as the next fella, and either way this stuff can't be allowed to continue.

    That said, I was just wondering to myself if Palhares would be as effective in MMA as he has been if he weren't notorious for destroying people's ligaments and playing loose with the rules.

    I'd bet that a lot of people go into fights with him sort of terrified of him grabbing onto one of their legs. Even just in the back of their minds, this has got to play a part into their mental state and how they fight. Also how quick they are to tap once a sub is on. As a contrast, someone like Damian Maiaa definitely has people worried about getting taken to the ground, but not for the same life threatening reasons.

    What do you think?
     
  2. mattemate

    mattemate Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    4,698
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Yes, I would be worried about his ruthless eye gouges.
     
  3. Spoonman7

    Spoonman7 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    40
    Location:
    California
    i think he would be, the skill is obviously there. but his constant holding of submissions is not a good thing. And he gives the same excuse every time
     
  4. Mixfight

    Mixfight Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    8,304
    Likes Received:
    18,243
    Palharres has a mental disorder.
     
  5. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,931
    Likes Received:
    992
    There's always that one white or blue belt in every gym who isn't that great overall, but who can tap even the black belts every once in a while via his aggressive and relentless commitment to the highest percentage submissions (kimura, americana, guillotine, heel hook), and who have poor defense but are also very difficult to submit. Palhares and perhaps also Dean Lister seem to be the most successful examples of this style, which it seems like you must be born with to make work.
     
  6. Russky

    Russky Green Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    556
    ??? How's that possible? An aggressive opponent might be more difficult to get control, but once you get into position he is full of opening.
     
  7. chunglii

    chunglii No Me Duele Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    36,746
    Likes Received:
    54,758
    Location:
    San Diego
    If he did everything the same like he's currently doing, but when the ref touches him he instantly lets go (like a normal person), he'd be perfect.
     
  8. dmwalking

    dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    10,328
    Likes Received:
    5,994
    He doesn't get subs because he's ruthless. He gets the sub because he's actually good. They don't tap because he's ruthless. They tap because he actually got the sub. If he let go of subs on time, he's still be just as effective.

    His kimura on Shields was a thing of beauty. He's a great fighter. He's just a dick.
     
  9. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,931
    Likes Received:
    992
    You don't have a guy in your gym with a giant neck who nobody can tap even though his guard is as open as the Mojave desert?
     
  10. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    19,710
    Likes Received:
    5,104
    so basically toquinho and dean lister have white to blue belt skills, but they are good with hhs kimuras, and have poor defense but they are just hard to sbu because they have big necks?

    what can I say to this....
     
  11. Russky

    Russky Green Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    556
    We have big guys, but noone like that.

    We have one black belt who chokes me with cross collar choke from my closed guard (!) and I cannot do anything with that. :eek: His biceps are bigger than my waist, and he is 2x my weight. I do not think this is what you mean.
     
  12. Zefram Cochrane

    Zefram Cochrane Follow me on Pictogram

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    Messages:
    10,078
    Likes Received:
    17,190
    Location:
    Bozeman, Montana.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,931
    Likes Received:
    992
    Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Palhares and Lister have white to blue belt skills but they are good with kimuras and heel hooks and have poor defense but they are just hard to sub because they have big necks.
     
  14. mattemate

    mattemate Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    4,698
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    You win the internet.
     
  15. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    19,710
    Likes Received:
    5,104
    I knew it.
     
  16. RyanR

    RyanR Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,080
    Likes Received:
    5,430
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    Brb training neck
     
  17. Coati858

    Coati858 Old, slow & short

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    585
    Likes Received:
    376
    Location:
    San Diego
    :)

    Lest we forget, the medical report shows Palhares did get Shields' leg (unless the knee injury was preexisting), but didn't get the tap. So it's not that surprising he dialed the kimura up to eleven to get the tap when he knew it was the only route to winning.
     
  18. TrogBjj

    TrogBjj White Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Palhares is a maniac but lets be honest its the reason people watch him. I think he has a psychological edge because people are legitimately afraid of serious injury in their bouts against him.

    That being said it should not be tolerated, full time professional athletes are side lined for long periods of time due to him not letting go.
     
  19. JudoYourDayUp

    JudoYourDayUp Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    64
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Yeah, I mean I think you're probably right. I just feel like it's maybe given him a psychological edge too. Almost like beating up the biggest guy in prison on the first day.
     
  20. mysticdragonbjj

    mysticdragonbjj Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    17
    To OP, yes. Paul Harris would still be effective.

    I've never heard of him holding subs too long in his own gym. I also know that when learning jiu jitsu, one thing you learn is when you have it and your opponent stops fighting, you should be feeling for a tap. He knows this too.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.