If Palhares weren't so ruthless, would he be as effective?

[JudoYourDayUp]

First off, I want to say that this is just a thought experiment. I dislike unsportsmanlike conduct as much as the next fella, and either way this stuff can't be allowed to continue.

That said, I was just wondering to myself if Palhares would be as effective in MMA as he has been if he weren't notorious for destroying people's ligaments and playing loose with the rules.

I'd bet that a lot of people go into fights with him sort of terrified of him grabbing onto one of their legs. Even just in the back of their minds, this has got to play a part into their mental state and how they fight. Also how quick they are to tap once a sub is on. As a contrast, someone like Damian Maiaa definitely has people worried about getting taken to the ground, but not for the same life threatening reasons.

What do you think?

 

[mattemate]

Yes, I would be worried about his ruthless eye gouges.

 

[Spoonman7]

i think he would be, the skill is obviously there. but his constant holding of submissions is not a good thing. And he gives the same excuse every time

 

[Mixfight]

Palharres has a mental disorder.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

There's always that one white or blue belt in every gym who isn't that great overall, but who can tap even the black belts every once in a while via his aggressive and relentless commitment to the highest percentage submissions (kimura, americana, guillotine, heel hook), and who have poor defense but are also very difficult to submit. Palhares and perhaps also Dean Lister seem to be the most successful examples of this style, which it seems like you must be born with to make work.

 

[Russky]

poor defense but are also very difficult to submit.

??? How's that possible? An aggressive opponent might be more difficult to get control, but once you get into position he is full of opening.

 

[chunglii]

If he did everything the same like he's currently doing, but when the ref touches him he instantly lets go (like a normal person), he'd be perfect.

 

[dmwalking]

He doesn't get subs because he's ruthless. He gets the sub because he's actually good. They don't tap because he's ruthless. They tap because he actually got the sub. If he let go of subs on time, he's still be just as effective.

His kimura on Shields was a thing of beauty. He's a great fighter. He's just a dick.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

??? How's that possible? An aggressive opponent might be more difficult to get control, but once you get into position he is full of opening.

You don't have a guy in your gym with a giant neck who nobody can tap even though his guard is as open as the Mojave desert?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

There's always that one white or blue belt in every gym who isn't that great overall, but who can tap even the black belts every once in a while via his aggressive and relentless commitment to the highest percentage submissions (kimura, americana, guillotine, heel hook), and who have poor defense but are also very difficult to submit. Palhares and perhaps also Dean Lister seem to be the most successful examples of this style, which it seems like you must be born with to make work.

so basically toquinho and dean lister have white to blue belt skills, but they are good with hhs kimuras, and have poor defense but they are just hard to sbu because they have big necks?

what can I say to this....

 

[Russky]

You don't have a guy in your gym with a giant neck who nobody can tap even though his guard is as open as the Mojave desert?

We have big guys, but noone like that.

We have one black belt who chokes me with cross collar choke from my closed guard (!) and I cannot do anything with that. His biceps are bigger than my waist, and he is 2x my weight. I do not think this is what you mean.

 

[Zefram Cochrane]

There's always that one white or blue belt in every gym who isn't that great overall, but who can tap even the black belts every once in a while via his aggressive and relentless commitment to the highest percentage submissions (kimura, americana, guillotine, heel hook), and who have poor defense but are also very difficult to submit. Palhares and perhaps also Dean Lister seem to be the most successful examples of this style, which it seems like you must be born with to make work.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

so basically toquinho and dean lister have white to blue belt skills, but they are good with hhs kimuras, and have poor defense but they are just hard to sbu because they have big necks?

what can I say to this....

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Palhares and Lister have white to blue belt skills but they are good with kimuras and heel hooks and have poor defense but they are just hard to sub because they have big necks.

 

[mattemate]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Palhares and Lister have white to blue belt skills but they are good with kimuras and heel hooks and have poor defense but they are just hard to sub because they have big necks.

You win the internet.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Palhares and Lister have white to blue belt skills but they are good with kimuras and heel hooks and have poor defense but they are just hard to sub because they have big necks.

I knew it.

 

[RemyR]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Palhares and Lister have white to blue belt skills but they are good with kimuras and heel hooks and have poor defense but they are just hard to sub because they have big necks.

Brb training neck

 

[Coati858]

Brb training neck

Lest we forget, the medical report shows Palhares did get Shields' leg (unless the knee injury was preexisting), but didn't get the tap. So it's not that surprising he dialed the kimura up to eleven to get the tap when he knew it was the only route to winning.

 

[TrogBjj]

Palhares is a maniac but lets be honest its the reason people watch him. I think he has a psychological edge because people are legitimately afraid of serious injury in their bouts against him.

That being said it should not be tolerated, full time professional athletes are side lined for long periods of time due to him not letting go.

 

[JudoYourDayUp]

He doesn't get subs because he's ruthless. He gets the sub because he's actually good. They don't tap because he's ruthless. They tap because he actually got the sub. If he let go of subs on time, he's still be just as effective.

His kimura on Shields was a thing of beauty. He's a great fighter. He's just a dick.

Yeah, I mean I think you're probably right. I just feel like it's maybe given him a psychological edge too. Almost like beating up the biggest guy in prison on the first day.

 

[mysticdragonbjj]

To OP, yes. Paul Harris would still be effective.

I've never heard of him holding subs too long in his own gym. I also know that when learning jiu jitsu, one thing you learn is when you have it and your opponent stops fighting, you should be feeling for a tap. He knows this too.