If NFL is A level athleticism

[TRYHARD 2001]

hockey you just need a stick, skates and a frozen lake.

tennis is dominated at all levels by people who pay for training and it's fuckin expensive.

serena and venus are of course outliers and their father was unique in their development as players. sure it's possible to become great at tennis without paying for coaching but it's very rare and you're going to be at a relative disadvantage.

Where's the puck in all this, man?!?!?!

 

[Khaiser]

I'm sorry I missed this post where you already admitted you were wrong. I really don't know why we are arguing about this point if you have already conceded the point.

Nobody is implying the punching power you have when you walk into a gym is what you will have for the rest of your life, just like nobody is implying the punching power you have the moment you come out of the womb is the maximum power you will have in life. That is not what the fight community means when they say "punchers are born."

When the fight community says, "Punchers are born" they mean the punching power ceiling you will have in life is set. Not everyone can be a knockout puncher like Fedor, Tyson or Rumble. & a large reason for that is genetic, it has a lot to do with a high ratio of fast twitch muscle fibers, which not everyone is born to have.

My words,
“I genuinely don’t know how someone even gets into martial arts and isn’t aware than things like power and speed can be enhanced with the correct training”

And again,
“Sprint speed can be improved.
Vertical jump can be improved.
Squat can be improved.
Bench can be improved.
Kicking power can be improved.
Grip strength can be improved.
Horizontal jump can be improved.
Distance running can be improved.

Punching power is not some sort of exception to the rule.”

And again.....
“If you have good technique, you can improve your punch power through training the physical contributors to a punch”

Now @Takamine86, your original stance...

“you still continue to argue against Freddie Roach to say power can be taught.”

You’ve now altered that stance to admit that punching, like any other physical activity, can be taught, improved upon, developed, whatever you want to call it. No, that doesn’t mean everyone will end up punching like George Foreman, in the same way giving everyone sprint training doesn’t mean we’ll all run like Usain Bolt, but we can all absolutely improve on it.

And guess what? If you’re improving on something, through technical adjustments from a coach, then you’re being taught......

 

[Khaiser]

And if you simply missed my posts, then fine (although you did reply to them), but as you can see from my precision post, I’ve stated that punching power can be developed numerous times.

 

[Phi-]

quality posting troll.

handegg is so funny too.

if you don't think guys who are fast, strong, quick and jump high and prove it against other elite players who get paid $3m on average are great athletes that's your problem. it's a nonsensical argument but hey, you seem to pride yourself on nonsensical arguments.

Handegg isn't supposed to be funny, I just don't want to write "football" and "american football" all the time and I refuse to use the term soccer. Don't be mad.

Fair enough: fast, strong, quick, jump high yaddayadda. But what happens if those supposed A-level-athletes can't get through 5 rounds against low level MMA competition without an inhaler when crossing over? Are they still superior and "A-level" in your book?

I wonder if there was a time in history when you could win a duel to the death by saying "but look how far I can jump".

 

[spinup]

But what happens if those supposed A-level-athletes can't get through 5 rounds against low level MMA competition

You could have said 2 rounds and it was just as true.

 

[Phi-]

You could have said 2 rounds and it was just as true.

I didn't want to hurt his feelings more than I alrdy have. He seems to be sensible about fatboys and "A-level-athletes" with no cardio.

 

[YourBoss]

Another video of bodybuilders trying NBA-combine. And again they look very good. 4,5 sec 40 yard dash, 10 feet jump, 35 inch standing vertical, 24 225lbs reps. So theres plenty of matieral on youtube to show, that the only thing one has to do to be good at verticals and 40 yards is go to the gym and hit the weights.
Sorry but the NFL-athletes being superior to MMA-fighters, boxers, footballplayers, basketballplayers, tennisplayers etc. is debunked.
If random people that dont do anything other than working out at the gym for aesthetic looks are able to score average to good NBA-combine results, that just shows how NFL- athletes are anything but special.

 

[kflo]

Handegg isn't supposed to be funny, I just don't want to write "football" and "american football" all the time and I refuse to use the term soccer. Don't be mad.

Fair enough: fast, strong, quick, jump high yaddayadda. But what happens if those supposed A-level-athletes can't get through 5 rounds against low level MMA competition without an inhaler when crossing over? Are they still superior and "A-level" in your book?

I wonder if there was a time in history when you could win a duel to the death by saying "but look how far I can jump".

how do you think messi would do in an mma fight with hardy? or volkov? let him train for 10 years.....

 

[Regal Boy]

how do you think messi would do in an mma fight with hardy? or volkov? let him train for 10 years.....

Ten years? He only needs like 1.5 to get the weight. from there it's anyone's guess

 

[kflo]

Ten years? He only needs like 1.5 to get the weight. from there it's anyone's guess

i don't know what that means. get the weight?

 

[Phi-]

how do you think messi would do in an mma fight with hardy? or volkov? let him train for 10 years.....

Messi is not exactly a HW you dumbass and not even his biggest fan would claim he's a superior athlete. He's a football genius and happy with it instead of having to do verts and 40y dashes like the Murican superathletes that can't go 3 MMA rounds.

Also, why aren't you asking how failed football players like Jose Aldo or Anderson Silva would do compared to failed handegg players like Schaub and Mitrione?

 

[Takamine86]

My words,
“I genuinely don’t know how someone even gets into martial arts and isn’t aware than things like power and speed can be enhanced with the correct training”

And again,
“Sprint speed can be improved.
Vertical jump can be improved.
Squat can be improved.
Bench can be improved.
Kicking power can be improved.
Grip strength can be improved.
Horizontal jump can be improved.
Distance running can be improved.

Punching power is not some sort of exception to the rule.”

And again.....
“If you have good technique, you can improve your punch power through training the physical contributors to a punch”

Now @Takamine86, your original stance...

“you still continue to argue against Freddie Roach to say power can be taught.”

You’ve now altered that stance to admit that punching, like any other physical activity, can be taught, improved upon, developed, whatever you want to call it. No, that doesn’t mean everyone will end up punching like George Foreman, in the same way giving everyone sprint training doesn’t mean we’ll all run like Usain Bolt, but we can all absolutely improve on it.

And guess what? If you’re improving on something, through technical adjustments from a coach, then you’re being taught......

I never altered my stance, you did when you realized you were wrong. This is a quote from you changing your stance and now saying you agree with me and Freddie that "Punchers are born" after you've been arguing that "punchers are made" this entire time.

I should clarify that every physical activity, punching included, has a degree of ‘born not made’.

My stance is still the same as Freddie's and the majority of the fight community which is "Punchers are born, not Made." That is still my stance.


I've been telling you "punchers are born" this entire time. You've been arguing that "punchers are made" this entire time. When I originally posted the video of Freddie agreeing with my position that "punchers are born," you tried to pretend Freddie didn't say it and you even tried to make the point that your interview quote from Freddie is from a later date in order to support your position that "punchers are made." <Lmaoo>

Let assume he did say what you’re saying he did. I’ve provided you with a contradictory quote from the exact same person. My quote is also more recent (taken from just before the Pacquiao vs Clottey fight) so we’ll assume that’s his current opinion:

I’ve given you a quote from Roach that’s comes after that video was taken, that video is therefore an opinion he no longer holds.

This reaffirms that your stance was originally "punchers are made" as you have been arguing for that position against me the entire time I've been telling you "Punchers are born." Again, this is you no longer defending the argument "punchers are made" and changing your position to agreeing with me and Freddie that "punchers are born."

I should clarify that every physical activity, punching included, has a degree of ‘born not made’.

So my position is still "punchers are born." Freddie's position is still "punchers are born." and now, you have come to accept that position as well.
I'm just glad to see I taught you something because your imaginary boxing coach isn't. <Lmaoo>

Now with that said, it is clear you don't know anything about Boxing so let me teach you more. When people say "punchers are born" as in, born with it, they don't literally mean the power you have when you come out of the womb or walk into a gym is the power you will have for the rest of your life. <Lmaoo> That isn't what it means. 40+ amateur bouts and you still don't know that?

What it means is the ceiling or limit of your power is something you're are born with. So when I tell you everyone can't have the KO power of Fedor, Ngganou, or Tyson, that is the truth and that is still my position. You can't learn to punch harder than them. Knockout Punchers are born. And yes, a lot of it has to do with genetics, as in literally BORN WITH IT! & one of those genetics reasons behind KO punchers being born is high ratios of fast twitch muscle fibers, which not everyone is born to have.

But again, if you now agree with me on "punchers are born," there is no reason for us to debate it any longer. I've taught you something.

 

[Regal Boy]

I never altered my stance, you did when you realized you were wrong. This is a quote from you changing your stance and now saying you agree with me and Freddie that "Punchers are born" after you've been arguing that "punchers are made" this entire time.



My stance is still the same as Freddie's and the majority of the fight community which is "Punchers are born, not Made." That is still my stance.


I've been telling you "punchers are born" this entire time. You've been arguing that "punchers are made" this entire time. When I originally posted the video of Freddie agreeing with my position that "punchers are born," you tried to pretend Freddie didn't say it and you even tried to make the point that your interview quote from Freddie is from a later date in order to support your position that "punchers are made." <Lmaoo>





This reaffirms that your stance was originally "punchers are made" as you have been arguing for that position against me the entire time I've been telling you "Punchers are born." Again, this is you no longer defending the argument "punchers are made" and changing your position to agreeing with me and Freddie that "punchers are born."



So my position is still "punchers are born." Freddie's position is still "punchers are born." and now, you have come to accept that position as well.
I'm just glad to see I thought you something because your imaginary boxing coach isn't. <Lmaoo>

Now with that said, it is clear you don't know anything about Boxing so let me teach you more. When people say "punchers are born" as in, born with it, they don't literally mean the power you have when you come out of the womb or walk into a gym is the power you will have for the rest of your life. <Lmaoo> That isn't what it means. 40+ amateur bouts and you still don't know that?

What it means is the ceiling or limit of your power is something you're are born with. So when I tell you everyone can't have the KO power of Fedor, Ngganou, or Tyson, that is the truth and that is still my position. You can't learn to punch harder than them. Knockout Punchers are born. And yes, a lot of it has to do with genetics, as in literally BORN WITH IT! & one of those genetics reasons behind KO punchers being born is high ratios of fast twitch muscle fibers, which not everyone is born to have.

But again, if you now agree with me on "punchers are born," there is no reason for us to debate it any longer. I've taught you something.

George Foreman has no fast twitch muscles in his body and he hits harder than all those men you mentioned. Punching power isn't reducible to "fast twitch muscle fiber composition".

 

[bigpunch]

The true A-level athlete. Champion with 1 month training.

 

[Liverkick-king56]

I never altered my stance, you did when you realized you were wrong. This is a quote from you changing your stance and now saying you agree with me and Freddie that "Punchers are born" after you've been arguing that "punchers are made" this entire time.



My stance is still the same as Freddie's and the majority of the fight community which is "Punchers are born, not Made." That is still my stance.


I've been telling you "punchers are born" this entire time. You've been arguing that "punchers are made" this entire time. When I originally posted the video of Freddie agreeing with my position that "punchers are born," you tried to pretend Freddie didn't say it and you even tried to make the point that your interview quote from Freddie is from a later date in order to support your position that "punchers are made." <Lmaoo>





This reaffirms that your stance was originally "punchers are made" as you have been arguing for that position against me the entire time I've been telling you "Punchers are born." Again, this is you no longer defending the argument "punchers are made" and changing your position to agreeing with me and Freddie that "punchers are born."



So my position is still "punchers are born." Freddie's position is still "punchers are born." and now, you have come to accept that position as well.
I'm just glad to see I thought you something because your imaginary boxing coach isn't. <Lmaoo>

Now with that said, it is clear you don't know anything about Boxing so let me teach you more. When people say "punchers are born" as in, born with it, they don't literally mean the power you have when you come out of the womb or walk into a gym is the power you will have for the rest of your life. <Lmaoo> That isn't what it means. 40+ amateur bouts and you still don't know that?

What it means is the ceiling or limit of your power is something you're are born with. So when I tell you everyone can't have the KO power of Fedor, Ngganou, or Tyson, that is the truth and that is still my position. You can't learn to punch harder than them. Knockout Punchers are born. And yes, a lot of it has to do with genetics, as in literally BORN WITH IT! & one of those genetics reasons behind KO punchers being born is high ratios of fast twitch muscle fibers, which not everyone is born to have.

But again, if you now agree with me on "punchers are born," there is no reason for us to debate it any longer. I've taught you something.

KO power is more so mindset in my opinion. Gsp is known for not having that kind of fight changing power but dropped a decently sized and solid chinned Bisping when he knew he had to bite down on the mouth piece.

Cruz blasted Mizugaki who was durable as hell but he is always more content with playing a tricky range game.

Guys like Stephans and Ngannou are always going to throw almost everything in every shot instead of trying to angle and focus on defence first because that's their fighting mindsets.
Aldo as champ has 1? KO victory but after he lost his belt he started throwing with fight ending power again.

Hell even DHK started earning some brutal KO victories.

 

[Regal Boy]

average 40 yd times in the NFL. I promise you didnt run that in middle school

Wide receiver 4.48
Cornerback 4.48
Running back 4.49
Free safety 4.53
Strong safety 4.55

I promise you I did, it's not that hard.

 

[kflo]

Messi is not exactly a HW you dumbass and not even his biggest fan would claim he's a superior athlete. He's a football genius and happy with it instead of having to do verts and 40y dashes like the Murican superathletes that can't go 3 MMA rounds.

Also, why aren't you asking how failed football players like Jose Aldo or Anderson Silva would do compared to failed handegg players like Schaub and Mitrione?

glad we agree the american football player would win in a fight with the soccer genius. since we're talking about, you know, fighting. oh, being an athlete means we separate them by weight class so they don't actually compete against each other.......

and kenyan distance runners have better endurance than ronaldo.....they must be superior athletes.......

so, now that we've agreed that the soccer guy isn't likely going to be competitive at lhw or hw..........

 

[kflo]

I promise you I did, it's not that hard.

lol...

 

[Takamine86]

George Foreman has no fast twitch muscles in his body and he hits harder than all those men you mentioned. Punching power isn't reducible to "fast twitch muscle fiber composition".

A few things.

1) I said muscle fibers are just one of the genetic reasons why punchers have a difference in their power ceiling/limit. I never claimed it is the only reason. I've stated that clearly. But fast twitch muscle fiber ratio is probably the most dominant reason behind the disparity in punching power ceiling/limit.

2) Everyone has both slow twitch (type 1) and fast twitch muscle (type 2a, type 2b) fibers in their body, we just have different ratios of them. So even George Foreman has fast twitch muscle fibers in his body.

3) There are 3 types of muscle fibers. There is slow twitch muscle fibers which is type1, then there are two types of fast twitch muscle fibres, Type2a and type2b. Type2a which is considered more of a middle of the road between slow twitch and fast twitch muscle fibers. & type2b which is on the other end of slow twitch. So basically this.

Type1a (Slow twitch/fatigue resistance) -Type2a(Fast twitch/mix of both) -Type2b (Fast twitch/produce most force)

With that said, you aren't going to say George Foreman is type1a dominant. He is very strong and He doesn't have great endurance (although it is underrated imho). Type1a fighters have better endurance, fighters like Antonio Margarito or Nick Diaz. George Foreman is more likely a type2a. While fighters like Tyson, Wilder, are type2b.

 

[ramair455]

I promise you I did, it's not that hard.