If free will doesn't exist...

[Phr3121]

That "choice" is nothing but a electro chemical reaction born from external stimulus applied on your genotype. From the moment you're born, you're basically on autopilot and because of our anatomy we perceive these unconscious reactions with delay giving the illusion of free will.

Ah, ok. So, a murderer is not really responsible for killing someone. By that logic, I'm free to kill any man or rape any woman I wish.

 

[Alcibiades007]

Ah, ok. So, a murderer is not really responsible for killing someone. By that logic, I'm free to kill any man or rape any woman I wish.

Really... Is that what your conclusion is?

Post #5, post #20, post #29, post #67, post#72 at the very least are a bunch of posts which I clearly addressed this repeatedly ITT.

 

[LockardTheGOAT]

If free will doesn't exist, then we don't get to choose whether or not we're judgmental.

This. This is always my answer to people who tell me it's irrational to judge others because free will supposedly doesn't exist.

 

[minute bull]

basically

I love how one word topples an entire life's worth of meaning it's just that easy.

 

[Alcibiades007]

This. This is always my answer to people who tell me it's irrational to judge others because free will supposedly doesn't exist.

I edited the OP.

 

[Satsui Ryu]

were you Predestined to type that response to me? or create this thread?

no, right? there's your answer my dude

Looking it in terms of every minutia of decisions a person makes doesn't really make a case for free will. Its more about overall drives and desires.

But to take your example and turn it into a hypothetical. Say TS is depressed and spends his days holed up in his room posting on Sherdog to escape life and that caused him to post this. Now say a month ago he went on a SSRI to treat the depression and with simply changing the chemicals in the brain he decides rather than escape he is going to do something more productive and thus not post that. It's a hypothetical, but it shows if you change someone's brain chemistry it will change the way they make decisions and take action.

 

[Mike]

Free will doesn't exist, but that doesn't change our tendency to reject those we see as bad for the species. Robbers, killers, etc.

 

[Mike]

Free will doesn't exist, but that doesn't change our tendency to reject those we see as bad for the species. Robbers, killers, etc.

 

[Alcibiades007]

Free will doesn't exist, but that doesn't change our tendency to reject those we see as bad for the species. Robbers, killers, etc.

That tendency can be minimized through reason though.

 

[BearGrounds]

Probably so , what objective good does harboring " hard feelings" do for the harbor'er?

It can serve as protection against future transgressions. It's a shield, in a sense, and shields can have utility (although, conversely, they can also be unwieldy at times, and thus a burden). Think of it like always keeping one's hands up during a fight. Let your guard down, and you're vulnerable. Keep them up at all times, and you may tire.

Point being, harboring hard feelings is not always detrimental to the harbor'er. It can be advantageous.

 

[Mike]

That's more of an argument for psychological egoism IMO, or chasing appetites and avoiding aversions.

You literally created a thread though...nobody forced you, you can choose not to participate in this site, or just respond, or just read, but you went out of your way to create this thread. There was no external factor being applied to you.......Creating a thread isn't a reaction, but a deliberate act my dude

How do you explain Altruistic acts, also? Why would someone take a bullet for somebody, especially if it was an unconscious response?

Just because we take actions, that doesn't mean we are fully in control of those actions. Everything that we are is decided by our genetics and environment, which we have zero control over.

Your looking at this from the typical perspective of "well you decided do a thing, and nobody held a gun to your head"

Which is ignoring the fact that you are not the architect of your decision making process.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Just because we take actions, that doesn't mean we are fully in control of those actions. Everything that we are is decided by our genetics and environment, which we have zero control over.

Your looking at this from the typical perspective of "well you decided do a thing, and nobody held a gun to your head"

Which is ignoring the fact that you are not the architect of your decision making process.

all that is irrelevant, unless you are in a situation where you have NO CHOICE, then there is some aspect of free will involved.

Even when say dodging an object thrown at you by an outside force, you can dodge left, right, up, or down.....Sure, reaction time, genetics, reflexes all play in as well as previous experiences and your observations from those. But a CHOICE is still made regardless

 

[Alcibiades007]

all that is irrelevant, unless you are in a situation where you have NO CHOICE, then there is some aspect of free will involved.

Even when say dodging an object thrown at you by an outside force, you can dodge left, right, up, or down.....Sure, reaction time, genetics, reflexes all play in as well as previous experiences and your observations from those. But a CHOICE is still made regardless

That choice is the sum of your genotype and experience, nothing more. Unless you want to add metaphysics with 0 scientific evidence.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

That choice is the sum of your genotype and experience, nothing more. Unless you want to add metaphysics with 0 scientific evidence.

I disagree, although it plays a huge part

People choose what to eat every single day, and choose different things at different times. You're saying that is ENTIRELY up to genotype and experience, and your choice is a straight up illusion?

I can't get down with that personally, but hey, to each their own respectfully

 

[Phlog]

all that is irrelevant, unless you are in a situation where you have NO CHOICE, then there is some aspect of free will involved.

Even when say dodging an object thrown at you by an outside force, you can dodge left, right, up, or down.....Sure, reaction time, genetics, reflexes all play in as well as previous experiences and your observations from those. But a CHOICE is still made regardless

Nah Mike is right here bro, if I throw a rock at you and you duck, then we were able to rewind time and observe the same scene without changing it at all, the same thing wiuld happen. You'd choose to duck, because all the data would be the same.

Same in=same out=no room for free will to exist.

 

[Phlog]

It's just that we FEEL like we choose and what's eronw with that?

 

[Alcibiades007]

It's just that we FEEL like we choose and what's eronw with that?

Iirc you said you are a psychologist. I made a thread about sisters having romantic relationships and for some reason(probably the trolling replies) it was deleted.

Can you think of any reason other than the "Bleax factor" which applies to homosexuality in general why 2 sisters who love each other shouldn't be allowed to have romantic relationships? Would like to hear a serious answer since everybody thought it was a joke topic.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Nah Mike is right here bro, if I throw a rock at you and you duck, then we were able to rewind time and observe the same scene without changing it at all, the same thing wiuld happen. You'd choose to duck, because all the data would be the same.

Same in=same out=no room for free will to exist.

then how do people create new artforms like a musical composition?

using previous experiences has no bearing on creating notes/symphonies and melodies that have never been created before. How is there possibly no CHOICE involved in that?

I promise i'm not trying to condescend, but understand this line of reasoning. I agree it plays a huge part, I just don't think it's entirely all of it.
edit: Like I get that personal experience and training will allow someone to know what an F5 note is, but when they are combining different notes, instruments, chords, etc... to make a new composition, how is that not almost entirely choice? they have to choose which progression of things to arrange, right?

 

[Alcibiades007]

then how do people create new artforms like a musical composition?

using previous experiences has no bearing on creating notes/symphonies and melodies that have never been created before. How is there possibly no CHOICE involved in that?

I promise i'm not trying to condescend, but understand this line of reasoning. I agree it plays a huge part, I just don't think it's entirely all of it.

Art is produced via thought process, which is still just electro chemical reactions. In other words, mathematical equations which have and end product.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Art is produced via thought process, which is still just electro chemical reactions. In other words, mathematical equations which have and end product.

so even a formless art relative like Jazz?