If Bisping defeats Weidman and Jacare is he the greatest MW ever?

[$uicideboy$]

Anderson has 10 title defenses. Bisping's further than you think from GOAT middleweight status.

its not that easy, you have to look at the context and the fights themselves
in-cage skills, opponents, way of victory, etc
i mean ronda had like 6 title defenses? you think shes better than lawler? ok buddy

 

[ShackleMeNot]

Needs 11 defenses and 4 lhw wins in the middle of it.

 

[subhuman trash]

Is there a GOAT post every time a title changes hands?

Welcome to Sherdog.

 

[HUGHPHUG]

you have to wonder about some people....

Here is Graceyanne to save the day

 

[Lint]

Defences. Not wins. If it was wins we could have a guy like Jeremy Horn as GOAT.

Ok, wherever said wins you can read title defences.

The average Jon Fitch win is to take down the fight and stall it for 5 minutes each and every round.

Dude could have 270 title defences, I'd still refrain from putting him on par with Jones/Fedor/Silva. Still I can understand people who would call him goat, though... There are victories bigger than other victories.

Take Bisping victory over Silva for an example, that was more of a Silva defeat than a Bisping victory, now compare that to the classic Silva vs. Griffin fight.

 

[RichyN]

There is no way to truly know whether he or anyone else was clean or not. Rampage more than hinted that he wasn't. The bottom line is the rules were the rules and everyone competed under the same rules. Anything else is hypothetical nonsense.

You must be really high bro.

 

[dhole]

If Bisping can defend his belt a couple times against the likes of Weidman, Jacare, Anderson or Rockhold can the argument be made Michael "The Count" Bisping is the greatest MW of all time?

No - but he would have the best MW resume of all time.

 

[honzo]

Ban

 

[AtaTheCrow]

Bisping should retired now.
I wanted so bad for him to win and he did it, it was fantastic. I can´t believe it, Bisping is the MW Champion!
that is so good for him.

...but i believe that he is going to loose his next firíght. He Schould retired and let Jacare or Weidman take the belt.

 

[Mr Wings]

its not that easy, you have to look at the context and the fights themselves
in-cage skills, opponents, way of victory, etc
i mean ronda had like 6 title defenses? you think shes better than lawler? ok buddy

You're telling me that comparing a middleweight man to a middleweight man is the same as comparing a bantamweight woman from a recently introduced division to a welterweight man? Wow.

This imaginary thing you've made up about quality of middleweight opponents being so much better now is based on zero facts. We saw what just happened to Rockhold last night; if he'd left himself open like that against Anderson, the result would have been the same.

The majority of Silva's opponents were very good fighters, but he made them LOOK like amatures because he was that good. His speed and reflexes were out of this world. His accuracy and power were extraordinary. Look how he clowned Forrest Griffin, a heavier man and a champion himself.

I get it; you've seen old man Silva lose a few flights and suddenly he sucks. I see thatbkind of thinking here all the time. That shit is Shertarded as fuck.

 

[Selukrid612]

if by "ignore history and rewrite your own alternate version" you mean "acknowledge the fact that over the entire course of bispings career, more than half of his losses were to fighters injecting steroids" then yeah

In a league that for all intents and purposes didn't test. It was literally a free-for-all. You want to talk context, that's it. It's absurd to sit here and act like the TRT-affected fights are special when we all know damn well that steroid use was rampant across the board. Like I said, live your fantasy. That's reality.

 

[$uicideboy$]

You're telling me that comparing a middleweight man to a middleweight man is the same as comparing a bantamweight woman from a recently introduced division to a welterweight man? Wow.

This imaginary thing you've made up about quality of middleweight opponents being so much better now is based on zero facts. We saw what just happened to Rockhold last night; with that kind of striking, Anderson would have blown him out too.

What you need to understand is that the majority of Silva's opponents were very good fighters, but he made them LOOK like lower quality fighters because he was that good. His speed and reflexes were out of this world. His accuracy and power were extraordinary. Look how he clowned Forrest Griffin, a heavier man and a champion himself.

You're trying to rewrite history. You saw old man Silva lose a few flights and suddenly you decide he sucks. I get it. I see it here all the time. This shit is Shertarded as fuck.

griffin was tailor-made for silva, being impressed by that is like being impressed by canelo KOing amir khan
zero facts? watching top MWs today fight and train, objectively judging their skill, and doing the same to MWs back then, its easy to tell who is better
its not imaginary, its called evolution
as the sport grows, knowledge grows, training gets enhanced,the fighters themselves naturally get better because of that
compared rockhold and weidman, anderoid is one-dimensional

silva doesnt suck, hes accomplished more in the sport than probably any other MW right now ever will but that doesnt mean that his peak in terms of pure skill is as high as lukes or weidmans

 

[wilKO]

He already is

 

[$uicideboy$]

In a league that for all intents and purposes didn't test. It was literally a free-for-all. You want to talk context, that's it. It's absurd to sit here and act like the TRT-affected fights are special when we all know damn well that steroid use was rampant across the board.

i give you the opposite of hypothetical nonsense, i give you real life examples, i give you proof and admission of PED-use

and your response is "ya well we dont know 100% if bisping is clean or not"

 

[Mr Wings]

griffin was tailor-made for silva, being impressed by that is like being impressed by canelo KOing amir khan
zero facts? watching top MWs today fight and train, objectively judging their skill, and doing the same to MWs back then, its easy to tell who is better
its not imaginary, its called evolution
as the sport grows, knowledge grows, training gets enhanced,the fighters themselves naturally get better because of that
compared rockhold and weidman, anderoid is one-dimensional

silva doesnt suck, hes accomplished more in the sport than probably any other MW right now ever will but that doesnt mean that his peak in terms of pure skill is as high as lukes or weidmans

"Griffin was tailor made for Silva." Yeah, you got nothing new for me man. It's all the same old arguments with this type of thinking. Everyone sucks after they're past their prime and you see them lose a few times. Anderson's not that good, Forrest Griffin was not that good.

I think we just gotta agree to disagree. We never got to see prime Silva vs prime Rockhold or prime Bisping, and some would argue Silva was out of his prime when he fought Weidman. Fine, it's a good debate but it can't really go anywhere; no one can prove what would happen. We each believe what we believe and that doesn't look like it's going to change.

 

[Selukrid612]

i give you the opposite of hypothetical nonsense, i give you real life examples, i give you proof and admission of PED-use

and your response is "ya well we dont know 100% if bisping is clean or not"

We don't know if ANYONE was clean because the rules encouraged people not to be. What competitive sport do you know that is clean? The fighters themselves have been telling us for years that people weren't clean. It wasn't a clean sport then and to what degree it is now I'm not even sure. You want to talk real life, that's it. If you want to just assume people were saints and never cheated you can go ahead, I don't. All I'm interested in is the official records because they're consistent with what the rules were at the time. If you disagree with that then like I said, you're welcome to create your own personal version of reality. We simply disagree.

 

[PancraseForever]

He could tie Anderson's defense record and would still fall short because he still has 10 years of being a gatekeeper on his record.

Having flying scissors on his record didn't affect Anderson.

 

[muaythaibeast]

He'd be close. Anderson and Vitor are known drug cheats, so both are out of the running for me, and Hendo is well documented for his TRT use leaves him in a grey area.
I've got Weidman as number 1 right now, but Mikes a clear top 5

 

[Selukrid612]

Having flying scissors on his record didn't affect Anderson.

Lol, touché. The difference is though that that happened very early in his MW career, before he became the Anderson that we know as the MW GOAT. Bisping has been a career gatekeeper.

 

[Pingu]

Yes, I have learned from sherdog that every new champion automatically is better than all the old ones. Bisping is the new breed, he has evolved. Also he did beat Anderson already.