Ideas on how to curb mass shootings.

[UpaLoompa]

you stated technology was the difference, im just correcting you by saying thats completely false

So, the technology being used isn't different. Fine, live in bizzaro world. Regardless, you're still wrong about these sorts of things not happening 40 years ago.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Or do you think technology only means lazers.
Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Jack Handy jr]

What a load of crap. You mean those awesome values such as teaching homosexuality is a sin? That races of people shouldn't mix? That Consitutionally Protected Rights only mean something when it agrees with you? That children should have their genetalia mutilated at birth? That tells us how to have sex and in what way? That AIDS is bad but condoms are worse?

You do not get to claim good acts and ignore the bad. That is dishonest, and certainly not the type of value I want for my kids. The values that need to be espoused are humanistic values and basic human rights - values that religion so often tramples on.



If you do a good job as a parent, this shouldn't worry you. I am the father of two daughters and I am not concerned about some raunchy teen idols because I am very involved in their lives and their moral upbringing. I claim the right as a parent to do what is in my power to release into the world a self respecting hard working woman. I do not claim the right to ban things like raunchy television stars because I do not like it.

Zeke, I also have two daughters, and as a word of caution, be very selective/careful about what types of images and music you allow your girls to listen to. all ideas good or bad come through ones ear gate, and eye gate.

In my opinion, music is thee most powerful medium in which immoral people convey their filth and ideas upon our kids by making it seem "cool" and "fun" I use to listen to Gangsta rap before I got into law enforcement, and now years later I realize that a weak minded individual can be "hyped up" do to something based on the negative energy in some genres of music. As you well know it only takes one person to have an extreme negative affect on many people. The perfect example is what we're debating lone gunmen that destroy families and people's lives.

 

[ripskater]

Zeke, I also have two daughters, and as a word of caution, be very selective/careful about what types of images and music you allow your girls to listen to. all ideas good or bad come through ones ear gate, and eye gate.

In my opinion, music is thee most powerful medium in which immoral people convey their filth and ideas upon our kids by making it seem "cool" and "fun" I use to listen to Gangsta rap before I got into law enforcement, and now years later I realize that a weak minded individual can be "hyped up" do to something based on the negative energy in some genres of music. As you well know it only takes one person to have an extreme negative affect on many people. The perfect example is what we're debating lone gunmen that destroy families and people's lives.

I believe that's good advice. There was a song in Sunday School I remember. "Be careful little eyes what you see, be careful little ears what you hear..."

 

[ruthless robert]

Or do you think technology only means lazers.
Wouldn't surprise me.

Hey, I'm not the one who was wrong. The technology of rifles and their functionality hasn't changed. A 1967 Ruger mini 14 functions the exact same as the Bushmaster ACR you stated.

Dont be mad at me for your ignorance on firearms.

Oh and by the way, the AK-47 came out in 1948 and the AR-15 in 1958. Can you explain how technology has changed their functions for 2014???

Because it seems that you're implying the AR and AK of today has technology that makes them capable of killing more people than an AR or AK from 50 years ago...... yet, they're the EXACT SAME

.

 

[Jack Handy jr]

How is teaching morals not political but mental health is?

You're personal opinion really doesn't matter. Something either is or isn't more common and the reality is that mass shootings are very rare. 20,000 people commit suicide annually in this country with guns and 80,000 people die from alcohol related causes. Those should be more of your concern then a mass shooter.

And yet our violent crime rate just keeps going down. Weird isn't it?

The signs are always obvious after the fact. Hindsight is 20/20.

Why do you think the right to freedom isn't important? Why should someone be punished for something they haven't even done yet? I support the 2nd amendment but I'd much rather they ban a few guns then just lock people up for something they have yet to do.

What kind of prayer?
What if the children aren't Christian?
How do you restrict television, video game, and musics without infringing on the 1st amendment?

And yet our violent crime rate just keeps going down. Weird isn't it?



Dude don't be fooled by FBI crime statistics. Cant tell you how many rapes, I've seen classified as assaults. People who've been wounded in drive by shootings that eventually expire... yep, those get classified as AWDW. It's not like police commanders are going to fudge their statistics to get a bonus or a promotion...I could go on.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Hey, I'm not the one who was wrong. The technology of rifles and their functionality hasn't changed. A 1967 Ruger mini 14 functions the exact same as the Bushmaster ACR you stated.

Dont be mad at me for your ignorance on firearms.

.

We're arguing completely different things. I couldn't have pulled the year of the Mini-14's introduction out of my head but I'm well aware that semi auto rifles cartriged like an ACR existed 40 years ago. The point, which seems pretty fucking simple, is that the types of guns and their capabilities play a role.

And, again, you're still wrong on the substantive issues.

 

[ruthless robert]

We're arguing completely different things. I couldn't have pulled the year of the Mini-14's introduction out of my head but I'm well aware that semi auto rifles cartriged like an ACR existed 40 years ago. The point, which seems pretty fucking simple, is that the types of guns and their capabilities play a role.

You said technology played a difference in the guns of today as opposed to the gun of 30-40 years ago. You even stated the Bushmaster ACR as if it had the new technology you were talking about

It seems that you're implying the AR and AK of today has technology that makes them capable of killing more people than an AR or AK from 50 years ago...... yet, they're the EXACT SAME

As an FFL dealer I'm trying to learn about this new killing technology so I can inform my customers. Please inform me.

.

 

[TheBox]

Dude don't be fooled by FBI crime statistics. Cant tell you how many rapes, I've seen classified as assaults. People who've been wounded in drive by shootings that eventually expire... yep, those get classified as AWDW. It's not like police commanders are going to fudge their statistics to get a bonus or a promotion...I could go on.

So all those police commanders from like 1950 to 1990 were super honest dudes, but in the last 25 years, they've steadily gotten more and more dishonest and now they're totally covering up murders left and right?

 

[DoomAndDarkness**]

Dad's need to be involved with their sons.

Racist.

 

[UpaLoompa]

You said technology played a difference in the guns of today as opposed to the gun of 30-40 years ago. You even stated the Bushmaster ACR as if it had the new technology you were talking about

It seems that you're implying the AR and AK of today has technology that makes them capable of killing more people than an AR or AK from 50 years ago...... yet, they're the EXACT SAME

As an FFL dealer I'm trying to learn about this new killing technology so I can inform my customers. Please inform me.

.

You do realize I posted a list of shootings from 40 years ago, shootings you said didn't happen 40 years ago by the way, and in that list there are occasional mentions of what guns were used right? I mean you aren't posting all this without having actually read what you were responding to, right?
Being the valuable member of this forum that you are, surely you're reading posts. In reading that list or going and looking at others you surely realized that gun technology makes a difference in how many people were getting killed, right?

In reading over that list you surely realized that the school shootings committed with semi-automatic weapons typically had higher death tolls, right? Being a quality poster you probably then clicked on the link I provided and saw that these sorts of shootings have occurred throughout history and that body counts with double barrel shotguns are less than with semi automatic weapons, right? You then realized that this was all consistent with my post, right? You also surely noted that this wasn't a valid reason for banning particular classes of weapons too.


Oh, and by the way, you are still wrong that these sorts of shootings are a new thing.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

In my opinion, music is thee most powerful medium in which immoral people convey their filth and ideas upon our kids by making it seem "cool" and "fun"

Damn. You're blowing my cover.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Children who grow up to be psychos are rare.




Not being sarcastic but am I taking this out of context? I think that most adults that grow up severely depressed and suicidal/homicidal most of the negative impetus for these feelings stem from something bad that happened during childhood.

And dude,I took like two psych classes towards my CJ degree so I'm not going to debate psychosis with you (I'd lose). What I will say is that I have a wealth of experience dealing with people in bad life situations, and not all but I'd hypothesis that the majority have their anti social issues stemming from what happened to them as kids, i.e. parents were drunks/drug abusers, parents were rich but tuned out, didn't notice their little spoiled brat turning into "Nero", the traumatic effect bullies are having on kids that aren't in the "in" crowds, and a biggie is the extreme prevalence of sexual abuse of both boys and girls.

what I've noticed is that at a minimum it turns boys into men with extreme sexual identity/depression issues, and girls into hyper promiscuous/depressives. feel free to school me if I'm wrong.

What I meant by psychos was people like Ted Bundy or some of these mass shooters. People who are exceptionally crazy and mentally ill. I think the rest of my post is a little more relevant.

Because mental health has greater far reaching effects that need to be considered.

That's part of the problem though:We politicize or try to politicize everything in this country.

Okay fair point. If mental health was to be given more presence in schools I think it would be very important to make sure the counselors would be properly trained and told to be as apolitical as possible but you're right, there is still the possibility of some politics seeping through. Still, I think the introduction of something like morals into the public school system beyond telling kids to treat others as they would want to be treated is unnecessary and ripe for abuse. Teaching morals is the job of the parents.

And yet our violent crime rate just keeps going down. Weird isn't it?



Dude don't be fooled by FBI crime statistics. Cant tell you how many rapes, I've seen classified as assaults. People who've been wounded in drive by shootings that eventually expire... yep, those get classified as AWDW. It's not like police commanders are going to fudge their statistics to get a bonus or a promotion...I could go on.

So what statistics are you using to justify your position that violent crime has risen?

 

[Hadron]

I don't think it is an argument in favor of gun control, at all, but surely you're not trying to suggest that a Bushmaster ACR (used in some of the shootings) and a hunting rifle with a five round magazine are equal for this sort of thing. I hope, since suggesting otherwise would be absurdly intellectually dishonest.

AR15s are one of the most popular rifles for hunting. It seems you only have an issue with capacity, but you haven't shown how it would have stopped these shootings. The Aurora shooter had his gun jam several times and it didn't stop him. Lanza reloaded several times and it didn't seem to deter him.

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

I don't think it is an argument in favor of gun control, at all, but surely you're not trying to suggest that a Bushmaster ACR (used in some of the shootings) and a hunting rifle with a five round magazine are equal for this sort of thing. I hope, since suggesting otherwise would be absurdly intellectually dishonest.



In previous threads I've provided all the relevant numbers with links. Drug use is down. Teen pregnancy is down. Violent crime is down. Property crime is down. Theft is down. You may not like what you see on TV but, regardless of "morality", based on any sort of real measurement people are behaving way better than they used to.

Now, if you'd like to discuss issues with sentencing laws in this country I'd be happy to do so but that's an entirely different discussion.

If everything is down and down by huge numbers, then what is the problem? Do you honestly think if we hadn't had any mass shootings in 10 years, then Elliot Rodgers happened, people wouldn't make a big deal out of it?

I was reading an article over at The Guardian, a website from the UK. They've had something like 14 shootings deaths since 2007 and they STILL want more gun control and knife control.

 

[UpaLoompa]

AR15s are one of the most popular rifles for hunting. It seems you only have an issue with capacity, but you haven't shown how it would have stopped these shootings. The Aurora shooter had his gun jam several times and it didn't stop him. Lanza reloaded several times and it didn't seem to deter him.

I've no issue with AR15s and have a long posting history of not supporting "assault weapon" bans because it is a meaningless term. I also don't support bans on high capacity magazines, though I care less about that issue.

Robert is ignoring 95% of a post which directly contradicts his post because he doesn't like my assertion that better weapons can reasonably be expected to kill more people. Or, more likely, he's focusing on one thing he thinks he can nit pick because he's been demonstrated to be wrong on the substantive issues.

 

[UpaLoompa]

If everything is down and down by huge numbers, then what is the problem?

What do you mean?
You can ask some of the sane conservative posters and they'll tell you I have for quite awhile posted that I don't support most gun control efforts. I think such efforts are largely irrelevant to existing (albeit diminishing) crime problems.

Do you honestly think if we hadn't had any mass shootings in 10 years, then Elliot Rodgers happened, people wouldn't make a big deal out of it?

Of course it would be a big deal. I don't know what you're trying to get at.

 

[UpaLoompa]

So what statistics are you using to justify your position that violent crime has risen?

I had a discussion with some poster recently about how bad everything is now days and I trotted out all the numbers showing that everything was actually seemingly a lot better. This guy happened to live in a really shitty neighborhood so he "felt" that things were worse.

Facts don't matter. Feelings matter. Sad but seemingly often the case.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

I believe that's good advice. There was a song in Sunday School I remember. "Be careful little eyes what you see, be careful little ears what you hear..."

Was that before or after the preachings of our innate sinful nature and the necessary action of human sacrifice?

 

[UpaLoompa]

If it was catholics it was certainly after they partook of cannibalism.