Ideas on how to curb mass shootings.

[Big Nasty Edison]

Do you understand what the 2nd Amendment is for?

Do you?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Do you understand that was written hundreds of years ago, and the technology of weapons and body armor today are beyond what the writers of that could have even fathomed in their wildest dreams? Can you point me to even ONE politician who has said that the right to own all types of firearm should be revoked? Pretty sure last time I checked that most Americans supported the stricter regulation of high powered weapons. How many Americans who own a gun are "part of a well regulated militia"? No one wants to "take your guns" but it things like AR15's have no point being on the streets of America. Hand guns, revolvers, shot guns, hunting rifles I have no issue with.

If you think the average person needs to own a high powered assault rifle to prevent the big bad mean ole government from taking all your rights, or some other foreign power knocking on your door to take your rights, then you live in a world of paranoia and may suffer from a mental health issue like these people committing these shootings do.

 

[oldshadow]

well I am for SYG. I just don't like SYG being abused by what I perceive as Cowards. The example I gave was a neighbor confronting a guy that had just returned from a deployment to Afghanistan, with the Air Force playing basketball with his daughter, minding his own business.

When his neighbor comes out and tells him it's too late to be dribbling a ball or something to that effect. Words are exchanged and the Airman eventually shoves his neighbor. The neighbor then produces a gun, and shoots the guy in front of his kid. Now as an LEO if I was on duty and a civilian shoved me, and I broke leather and shot him center mass guess what would happen to my law enforcement career? at a minimum I'd be fired, my department would be sued for millions, I would be sued for wrongful death, and use of force violations, the list goes on.

I have been through years of tactical training in shoot, don't shoot, and use of force practical exercises and scenarios . While an "average joe" can get a gun, get shoved by a guy. shoot him dead, them claim SYG. That's my problem with the way that particular law is being abused by cowards.

Yes it does have potential for abuse and this is a problem with any law and I have no problem with people caught doing that going to jail for life.

 

[MusterX]

why do people say this shit? no one will ever kill 30+ people with a knife. with a gun? it has happened, and will happen again.

You need to call China and ask about that knife theory.

 

[oldshadow]

Do you?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Do you understand that was written hundreds of years ago, and the technology of weapons and body armor today are beyond what the writers of that could have even fathomed in their wildest dreams? Can you point me to even ONE politician who has said that the right to own all types of firearm should be revoked? Pretty sure last time I checked that most Americans supported the stricter regulation of high powered weapons. How many Americans who own a gun are "part of a well regulated militia"? No one wants to "take your guns" but it things like AR15's have no point being on the streets of America. Hand guns, revolvers, shot guns, hunting rifles I have no issue with.

If you think the average person needs to own a high powered assault rifle to prevent the big bad mean ole government from taking all your rights, or some other foreign power knocking on your door to take your rights, then you live in a world of paranoia and may suffer from a mental health issue like these people committing these shootings do.

Most all of them.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think the idea about including more mental health professionals isn't a bad idea but my issue with it is that people approach it from this angle of finding the psychos instead of treating more common disorders. When you talk of guns and mental health the real concern should be suicides and depression. How many people die from mass shootings annually? Maybe a few dozen? A 100? Compare that to the 20,000 people who blow their brains out annually and its minimal. Children who grow up to be psychos are rare.

I think there should be numerous counselors at each school who screen every child at certain intervals. They should be trained to identify children who require more serious treatment and then refer them to a more qualified professional like a psychiatrist. That way these children can get the help they need but they have to be screened by two individuals before being prescribed meds. The lesser qualified and more numerous individuals can still help mitigate the effects of everyday issues children and adolescents face like drug abuse, risky sexual behavior, and bullying while also being able to catch things like sexual abuse or child abuse and it also normalizes mental health treatment and opens up jobs for the eminently unemployable psychology graduates.

Obviously I'm a little biased, plus I was pretty stoned when I came up with this idea so I'm sure there are holes in it but maybe its a good start.

 

[UpaLoompa]

You can thank liberals. That's yet another problem. We have been convinced as a society that it is somehow "mean", to treat dangerous crazy people like they're dangerous crazy people.

This is quite silly. It actually has mainly been under liberals that mental health issues have gotten recognition and general treatment.

Unless you're proposing forced institutionalization which, yes, most liberals and conservatives as well would oppose now days.

By the way, at least back at the time of the Newtown shooting, there wasn't a lot of evidence that these sorts of mass attacks were particularly more common now than in the past. Of course death tolls have generally gone up but that's mainly technologically driven.

 

[o'dubhlaoich]

Dad's need to be involved with their sons. Teach them morals and how to be a real man. Again, there is no government program or law that can fix the moral crisis in this country.

How can that be done in lesbian parents?

 

[Zankou]

I think the idea about including more mental health professionals isn't a bad idea but my issue with it is that people approach it from this angle of finding the psychos instead of treating more common disorders. When you talk of guns and mental health the real concern should be suicides and depression. How many people die from mass shootings annually? Maybe a few dozen? A 100? Compare that to the 20,000 people who blow their brains out annually and its minimal. Children who grow up to be psychos are rare.

I think there should be numerous counselors at each school who screen every child at certain intervals. They should be trained to identify children who require more serious treatment and then refer them to a more qualified professional like a psychiatrist. That way these children can get the help they need but they have to be screened by two individuals before being prescribed meds. The lesser qualified and more numerous individuals can still help mitigate the effects of everyday issues children and adolescents face like drug abuse, risky sexual behavior, and bullying while also being able to catch things like sexual abuse or child abuse and it also normalizes mental health treatment and opens up jobs for the eminently unemployable psychology graduates.

Obviously I'm a little biased, plus I was pretty stoned when I came up with this idea so I'm sure there are holes in it but maybe its a good start.

Loved this post.

 

[Teknik]

Aren't the bulk of the shooters either on, or coming off of, anti depressants? Maybe start there.

 

[MusterX]

Lol at calling me liberal...


Still can't tell if you're trolling, but I'll bite...

Don't you think addressing root causes for these mass shootings should also be a priority, especially issues regarding mental health?

The biggest problem is that you can't stop crazy, you just can't. People have tried to stop crazy for THOUSANDS of years, all have failed. Rwanda comes to mind. Nobody had a gun so about 700,000 people were killed with machetes and clubs. Even if you don't want to address something that extreme, China is a good place to see what hammers and knives can do. Many of their attacks kill more than our gun attacks too.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Aren't the bulk of the shooters either on, or coming off of, anti depressants? Maybe start there.

Anti-depressant drugs are awful and I talk from tragic family experience. People with mental health issues often turn to their regular doctors who either send them to someone else or do it themselves, but they end up just throwing anti-depressant drugs at people rather than treating them with counseling or therapy. Drugs should only be used in people with known, verifiable chemical imbalances but along with personal therapy and counseling. I've witness in many individuals through being involved with th US mental health system that the endemic of just throwing these drugs at people constitutes a majority of treatment. And the drugs have horrible side effects that in some people make their issues WORSE. And at best they become sort of addicted to it as they body chemistry changes and when coming off the drugs, they become worse.

 

[Zankou]

As to stopping this guy though, very little could have been done from a top-down perspective. Three deaths by shooting was actually a relatively low count. A bomb, poisoning, or stabbing spree would've been worse. Or even if he just drove into a crowd. So regulating the dangerous implements would not have stopped it.

Mental health wouldn't have done much because he already got so much treatment, and he was so high-functioning that if you forcibly imprisoned him we'd be in a totalitarian state.

More gun control would probably help somewhat, but it's not a panacea, and you are always going to get high-functioning lunatics who occasionally start killing people. The only positive thing is that, in the grand scheme of statistical risks, it's extremely unlikely that any particular individual gets killed in a mass stabbing/shooting like this. It is way, way, way way down the chart of ways in which you are likely to be killed before your time.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

The biggest problem is that you can't stop crazy, you just can't. People have tried to stop crazy for THOUSANDS of years, all have failed. Rwanda comes to mind. Nobody had a gun so about 700,000 people were killed with machetes and clubs. Even if you don't want to address something that extreme, China is a good place to see what hammers and knives can do. Many of their attacks kill more than our gun attacks too.

You can't completely stop crazy, but you can mitigate it...identify it, treat it...

of course, you will have those who slip through our fingers etc, but treating mental illness is a good place to start. I think this is somethign we can all agree on.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

As to stopping this guy though, very little could have been done from a top-down perspective. Three deaths by shooting was actually a relatively low count. A bomb, poisoning, or stabbing spree would've been worse. Or even if he just drove into a crowd. So regulating the dangerous implements would not have stopped it.

Mental health wouldn't have done much because he already got so much treatment, and he was so high-functioning that if you forcibly imprisoned him we'd be in a totalitarian state.

More gun control would probably help somewhat, but it's not a panacea, and you are always going to get high-functioning lunatics who occasionally start killing people. The only positive thing is that, in the grand scheme of statistical risks, it's extremely unlikely that any particular individual gets killed in a mass stabbing/shooting like this. It is way, way, way way down the chart of ways in which you are likely to be killed before your time.

You make good points. In this most recent case, no proposed "fix" could have caught this guy as he would have slipped them all. And as you said, up to the point that authorities had been alerted they had no power to forcibly imprison him. Hindsight is 20/20.

Ultimately this stuff has become a result of current American culture with it being a big nasty smoothie blend of tons of different factors. There is no quick fix.

 

[MusterX]

Do you?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Do you understand that was written hundreds of years ago, and the technology of weapons and body armor today are beyond what the writers of that could have even fathomed in their wildest dreams? Can you point me to even ONE politician who has said that the right to own all types of firearm should be revoked? Pretty sure last time I checked that most Americans supported the stricter regulation of high powered weapons. How many Americans who own a gun are "part of a well regulated militia"? No one wants to "take your guns" but it things like AR15's have no point being on the streets of America. Hand guns, revolvers, shot guns, hunting rifles I have no issue with.

If you think the average person needs to own a high powered assault rifle to prevent the big bad mean ole government from taking all your rights, or some other foreign power knocking on your door to take your rights, then you live in a world of paranoia and may suffer from a mental health issue like these people committing these shootings do.

You should talk to the U.S. government about its obsession with the big ole bad guys knocking their door down because they spend ALOT of money on armor and guns to kill ALOT of people. Sometimes I wonder if gun activists, not you specifically, want all people disarmed or only civilians because our government mass kills and spends hundreds of billions of dollars a year to do it.

 

[oldshadow]

You can't completely stop crazy, but you can mitigate it...identify it, treat it...

of course, you will have those who slip through our fingers etc, but treating mental illness is a good place to start. I think this is somethign we can all agree on.

This and I have no problem with the state going to court and getting a injunction to search and remove all guns if they have documented evidence a person like this is armed.

I think in this case he would have killed about the same number or maybe more with things he could get his hands on.

 

[MusterX]

You can't completely stop crazy, but you can mitigate it...identify it, treat it...

of course, you will have those who slip through our fingers etc, but treating mental illness is a good place to start. I think this is somethign we can all agree on.

Good lord, America probably has more psychiatrists than any country on earth. How much more can we treat it.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Good lord, America probably has more psychiatrists than any country on earth. How much more can we treat it.

Yes we do...but how many have access to them?

How many can afford them?

Making them easily accessible would be a crucial step...

again, i don't believe this is the silver bullett to stop all Mass murder but a great deal of good would come out of this.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Loved this post.

Thanks. My inspiration for the idea was FDR's Conservation Corps. Take people who are likely to be unemployed and find someway they can serve society with their skills. I doubt it would create nearly as many jobs but hey its something.

Aren't the bulk of the shooters either on, or coming off of, anti depressants? Maybe start there.

But how many people on anti-depressants go on to become one of these shooters? Most of these shooters are white too but clearly that fact on its own doesn't help much.

Different people react differently to these drugs. A friend of mine started using an anti-depressant recently and says it has worked wonderfully but I remember reading a poster here mention that the same anti-depressant made him feel like shit.

You can thank liberals. That's yet another problem. We have been convinced as a society that it is somehow "mean", to treat dangerous crazy people like they're dangerous crazy people.

I'm only an undergrad but really, most of us know that psychology isn't as exact a science as biology. I don't like the idea of a psychiatrist being able to deprive a person of their rights. Having a panel of experts evaluate people would be better but the thought is still a little disconcerting, especially when mass shooters are the exception and not the rule.

 

[ruthless robert]

The biggest problem is that you can't stop crazy, you just can't. People have tried to stop crazy for THOUSANDS of years, all have failed. Rwanda comes to mind. Nobody had a gun so about 700,000 people were killed with machetes and clubs. Even if you don't want to address something that extreme, China is a good place to see what hammers and knives can do. Many of their attacks kill more than our gun attacks too.

Shh, dont frustrate the libs with logic and fact. And since we can never rid crazy lets just take away the rights of good people to defend themselves so these crazies have easier prey......

isnt thay what governement does? help the bad guys and screw the good guys?

.