IBJJF 5 person division

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venum1

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How would this work? I am sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere but I can't find it. I understand that for 5 people, first round one would get a bye, then 2nd round you would have the two winners and the person who got a bye. normally, I would assume you would then fight round robin for placement but how does the ibjjf work it since they give two bronze medals? In this case would they fight for placement then have the losers of the first round fight for bronze? or just award one bronze medal? And if there are 3 people, do they fight round robin or give one person a bye to the finals?
 
I would've thought round robin, but thats just based off my experience for small pools in Judo (which hardly ever happened in my weight class).

I did like the round robin style in the novice division though. I'd drive 3 hours to get to the tournement, so more matches was better.
 
I cannot tell you how many times I've had to deal with this in my lifetime and how most people cannot grasp the beauty of the mathematics behind "the bracket." If you know how a "bracket" is supposed to "work" you can draw up a 16, 32, 64, hell, a 128 person bracket on any piece of paper, whiteboard, chalkboard, etc. And the problems usually occur when you get 1 or 2 more people than the normal bracket is built for. 5 people or 9 or 10 people or 17 people. I've dealt with this in dart tournament, pool tournament, BJJ tournament, etc. I've actually been a COMPETITOR at a BJJ tournament when I tried to explain to them that they had to re-do the brackets because there was a late entry and we now how 9 competitors. "No we don't? Well just put him here at the bottom."
"No...that won't work."
"Sure it will. Look, we'll just draw a line and he'll fight the winner of this fight."
"No...that won't work. The winner is supposed to fight the winner of THAT fight."
"Oh...well what do we do?"
"You go to a 16 person bracket."
"But we've only got 9?"
"Yes...which is exactly why you now have to go to 16." (I draw a 16 person bracket and he starts numbering them down the page 1 fighting 2, 3 fighting 4...)
"No, no, no. 1v16, 2v15 at the bottom of the page, 3v14 just below the middle, 4v13 just above." (Then he starts filling in the names down the page 1 and 16 and 8 and 9.)
"No, no, no. You don't have a 16, you've only got 9. Just fill in names next to the numbers 1 through 9."
"But look at all those byes?"
"Yeah, so? They will all be gone after ONE round. Then you will have a nice full bracket of 8. You basically have one play in match here at 8v9."
"Hmm, that looks like it will work?"
"Trust me, it'll work."

It got to the point that I will actually bring blank brackets of various sizes to tournaments that I'll go to...but it's funny to watch some Brazillian guy say I'm full of shit when I try to help him. So I sit back and watch his bracket blow up and listen to everyone yell at him and how come he didn't listen to old guy who seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

There are so many fun little facts about bracket making I wish I knew how to write proper mathematical notation on Sherdog. But trust me, once you see the math behind it, you can make a bracket of almost any size right on the spot. Even double elimination.
 
Ninjamurf said:
I cannot tell you how many times I've had to deal with this in my lifetime and how most people cannot grasp the beauty of the mathematics behind "the bracket." If you know how a "bracket" is supposed to "work" you can draw up a 16, 32, 64, hell, a 128 person bracket on any piece of paper, whiteboard, chalkboard, etc. And the problems usually occur when you get 1 or 2 more people than the normal bracket is built for. 5 people or 9 or 10 people or 17 people. I've dealt with this in dart tournament, pool tournament, BJJ tournament, etc. I've actually been a COMPETITOR at a BJJ tournament when I tried to explain to them that they had to re-do the brackets because there was a late entry and we now how 9 competitors. "No we don't? Well just put him here at the bottom."
"No...that won't work."
"Sure it will. Look, we'll just draw a line and he'll fight the winner of this fight."
"No...that won't work. The winner is supposed to fight the winner of THAT fight."
"Oh...well what do we do?"
"You go to a 16 person bracket."
"But we've only got 9?"
"Yes...which is exactly why you now have to go to 16." (I draw a 16 person bracket and he starts numbering them down the page 1 fighting 2, 3 fighting 4...)
"No, no, no. 1v16, 2v15 at the bottom of the page, 3v14 just below the middle, 4v13 just above." (Then he starts filling in the names down the page 1 and 16 and 8 and 9.)
"No, no, no. You don't have a 16, you've only got 9. Just fill in names next to the numbers 1 through 9."
"But look at all those byes?"
"Yeah, so? They will all be gone after ONE round. Then you will have a nice full bracket of 8. You basically have one play in match here at 8v9."
"Hmm, that looks like it will work?"
"Trust me, it'll work."

It got to the point that I will actually bring blank brackets of various sizes to tournaments that I'll go to...but it's funny to watch some Brazillian guy say I'm full of shit when I try to help him. So I sit back and watch his bracket blow up and listen to everyone yell at him and how come he didn't listen to old guy who seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

There are so many fun little facts about bracket making I wish I knew how to write proper mathematical notation on Sherdog. But trust me, once you see the math behind it, you can make a bracket of almost any size right on the spot. Even double elimination.
Click to expand...

The Bracket is something us dumb-ass wrestlers understand well. Don't see why its so hard for the BJJ organizers to figure it out.....
 
Thrawn33 said:
The Bracket is something us dumb-ass wrestlers understand well. Don't see why its so hard for the BJJ organizers to figure it out.....
Click to expand...

Man, it's not just them! Dart tournament guys, pool tournament guys. I actually ended up running the pool tournament for awhile at my local pub because the guy who ran it screwed it up every single week. First week I came in, brackets in hand, double elimination, everything went perfect, finished in about half the time, the owner came up after and said, "uh, you want to run this every week? We'll pay your entry into the tournament and give you a couple ****tails?"
"Uh...HELL YEAH!"

The guy who used to run it was mad as hell because even though he was a good pool player, and used to actually win some of the money at the tournament, he was dumb as a stump. And now he had to pay to play and for his drinks! LOL
 
Not really on topic, but round robin would be great for a submission only tournament. You could allow both fighters to move on after a match ended with no submission. If the last 2 fighters standing had originally faced each other and ended in a draw they could fight again with no time limits.
 
greedysob said:
Not really on topic, but round robin would be great for a submission only tournament. You could allow both fighters to move on after a match ended with no submission. If the last 2 fighters standing had originally faced each other and ended in a draw they could fight again with no time limits.
Click to expand...

I love a round robin.

Pay the entry fee and get your money's worth!
 
Question,

If a bracket has two guys who get byes in the first round, should they have to face each other in round 2 or should they face guys who have already fought?

I would think they should fight another fresh guy.

For example a 6 man bracket I think it should be like this,

Round 1.
F1
Vs
F2

F3
Vs
F4

F5 and F6 bye.


Round 2

Winner of F1 and F2
Vs
Winner of F3 and F4

F5
Vs
F6.


ROund 3
Winner of F1, F2, F3 and F4.
Vs
Winner of F5 and F6.
 
Last comp I went in was like this (only showing 6 guys not the full 26).

Round 1.
F1 Bye

F2
Vs
F3

F4
Vs
F5

F6 bye.


Round 2

F1
Vs
Winner fo F2 and F3

Winner of F4 and F5
Vs
F6.


Its not like this cost of me anything results wise I just think it would be a fairer system if the fighters with Byes had to face each other ie have to face a fresh opponent instead of guys who have already fought.

(yes I know they aren't really fights it was just easier to say it that way)
 
HIMBOB said:
Last comp I went in was like this (only showing 6 guys not the full 26).

Round 1.
F1 Bye

F2
Vs
F3

F4
Vs
F5

F6 bye.


Round 2

F1
Vs
Winner fo F2 and F3

Winner of F4 and F5
Vs
F6.


Its not like this cost of me anything results wise I just think it would be a fairer system if the fighters with Byes had to face each other ie have to face a fresh opponent instead of guys who have already fought.

(yes I know they aren't really fights it was just easier to say it that way)
Click to expand...

The two higher ranked guys get the first round bye, and they fight winners from the first round. (RHIP)

How are you guys figuring rank? Can you? Wrestling they had seeding meetings, but it was easier to verify records. Other comps I've been to had random draws.
 
Thrawn33 said:
The two higher ranked guys get the first round bye, and they fight winners from the first round. (RHIP)

How are you guys figuring rank? Can you? Wrestling they had seeding meetings, but it was easier to verify records. Other comps I've been to had random draws.
Click to expand...

Judging on stripes it did not work that way, perhaps it was random who got assigned byes.
 
fought in a tournament where there was 7 man. it was double elimination. won first, lost second, got knocked into the loser bracket had to fight the last 3 matches in a row. although i took full 3 min rest for the last 2 matches. took silver going 4-2.

i had not gas left for first place match. that sucked!
 
futang17 said:
fought in a tournament where there was 7 man. it was double elimination. won first, lost second, got knocked into the loser bracket had to fight the last 3 matches in a row. although i took full 3 min rest for the last 2 matches. took silver going 4-2.

i had not gas left for first place match. that sucked!
Click to expand...

Satisfying though wasn't it?
 
Thrawn33 said:
Satisfying though wasn't it?
Click to expand...

to be honest i was so tired i was just happy the last match was over, win or lose. moral of story, if you're gonna lose in a double elimin bracket, lose towards the end.
 
I love the idea of round robin and submission only. I hate the points system because I feel like it encourages stalling.

Another question, sometimes I see results where they have two of the same age-weight-skill division. I always assumed this was because they subdivided the division based on turnout. However, sometimes I see one division with only two people? Is this because someone showed up after they made the brackets? Or an attempt to keep things even, maybe having a 4 person and 2 person division instead of a 5 or 6 person division?
 
In FILA Tournament (Grappling, BJJ or Amateur MMA) they use

2 to 5 people --> Round Robin

6+ ---> Elimination with repechage of the athletes that lost against of the finalist ( so 1 Gold, 1 Silver and 2 Bronze medals)
 
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