Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by OpethDrums, Oct 29, 2005.
yeah i got owned. thats all im saying. wrestling > bjj
u grappled with a highly skilled wrestler who knows subs and u got owned. Im sure if you grappled with a highly skilled BJJer with wrestling skills you will get owned too.
he did so many things that ive never seen before.. it was just different in a bad way.
My Bjj instructor was a U of M wrestler, so we incorporate a lot of wrestling skills into our Bjj. What did he do that you'd never seen before? Takedown stuff or ground stuff?
That was a good post pre-edit.
More info please. Was he just a wrestler? Or had he crossed over to submission some time ago. Normally even good wrestlers are easily beatable in submission grappling until they get some experience under their belt.
From my experience they will:
1) Give up their back very easily as they conditioned against getting pinned.
2) Not be able to finish.
3) Are much easier to submit from the guard as they have you 'pinned' and don't know what to work from there. I've seen Big Ten wrestlers get guillotined from the guard multiple times.
Wrestlers tend to be phenomenal at getting control. Meaning they will take you down at will and stay on top on the ground. But they have a lot of holes in their game when crossing over that are exploitable, IMHO.
wrestlers are just hard to grapple somtimes because they do things that would be considered un-orthodox in BJJ. They do make mistakes but they are usually so explosive and strong that you need to capitalize right away on the mistake or they'll already be doing something else. They do have trouple finishing though
you got owned by a better grappler then you that in no way means wrestling is better then bjj or anything like that try going against someone with 10 years of akido training and you'll get beat are you gonna then say akido > bjj?
Seriously just because u suck and got beat dont bring down bjj. In my opinion i like em both thats why im tryin out for my first year in highschool in about a couple of weeks
You give BJJ a bad name.
Woah woah woah here.
He just got beaten by a wrestler and it was a harsh experience. It is now his opinion that wrestling is more effective than BJJ. Don't flame him for it.
In all fairness you should have mentioned how little experience you have fighting top guys. Or, at least, top guys from different styles than your own.
I don't see any flaming. Not for a person with 1000 posts on an mma site that doesn't know how tuff wrestling is. I suspect over the recomposure period he gives more respect to Nog and the like.
That's usually what happens if you are a bad BJJ:er.
Here is the equation:
Submission grappling match------no time limits:
*BJJ guy worth half a shit who has trained 5 years vs.
*Wrestler who has wrestled at elite level for 5 years=
BJJ guy winning 95% of the time. The other 5% are some brutal neckcrank/choke action or slam that wrestler pulls off.
*no cross training for either one
I have gone against a few wreslters, some collegiate level. Wrestlers have many great attributes, and I have never taken down a good wrestler. Wrestlers also excel in the scramble, and are quick to not get put on their back. I am a blue belt and always end up in my guard (open or closed doesn't matter) and will either submit them or sweep them. Gi or no gi it doesnt matter.
This is when they are new to the submission game. Once you add good submission skills to a good wrestler, they are very dangerous and can dictate where the game goes.
I have high respect for wrestlers, and have been working with them to help me on my wrestling. But BJJ>Wrestling all things being equal, and thats the bottom line.
In a grappling match, with no time limits, a bjjer, generally, will win by sub vs judoka or wrestler. Its like math. And I'm a judoka. Thems the rules.: :icon_cry2
pure Wrestling>pure BJJ
Um, am I missing something... you edited that first post so maybe I am. It says you wrestled a wrestler and got beat... okay, fair enough, I would expect it. If I boxed a boxer and got KTFO it wouldn't reflect at all on BJJ. Yes wrestling and BJJ are both grappling arts but if you compete against someone else under their rules you usually lose.
How much judo did you do compared to wrestling and other stuff?
I agree with you. But here's a counter-example: wasn't Gracie vs. Kimura a BJJer vs. a Judoka? Kimura finished Gracie twice in that match. (Kimura didn't know he knocked out Gracie, and the next submission attempt brought him out of it.) Of course, that wasn't a traditional match so I'm just being an ass... :wink:
Personally, I just started learning Judo throws, and it have tremendously helped my grappling standup especially against wrestlers and in no-gi fighting ironically enough.
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