I stopped watching Usyk-Fury 2 after the 8th round, Usyk was so ahead...

[mozfonky]

mike is retired… you idiot. He is not a pro fighter and that Jake Paul fight doesn’t count.


I’m referring to pro Mike Tyson not fucking 60 year old Tyson you dimwit. Wilder is retired at this point as well

you guys are cracking me up.

 

[mozfonky]

It’s not so simple. Mike was Cus D’Amato toy and Cus’ dream was to have another HW champion, the perfect HW champion.

i once heard from that writer from newsweek (wallace matthews)that tyson actually came out of prison at 175. Never knew if there was any truth to that.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Here's another hot take from @iwannabeadored. Says he rates the current heavyweight era quite a bit higher than the 80s.

The 70s and the 90s were strong. The 80s were extremely weak, the 2000s were extremely weak. This era is pretty good

But you guys want me to give him the benefit of the doubt over his latest hot take? He has a history of saying ridiculous shit. LOL

 

[mozfonky]

Mexicans can sorta be haters towards Chicanos.
A Mexican-American would likely come out to that. I can see Francisco Vargas or Tapia coming out to that.
Oscars too much of a girl for that.
But Mexicanos from Mexico, they will simply not do it because its rap and thats not "puro" for them.

I assume its like that with anyones culture, Irish and Irish-Americans. Italians and Italian-Americans, etc
The natives will hate on the non natives.

Oscar tried to come out with a sombrero and Larry Merchant had to talk shit which upset the mexican fans, they made Larry apologize on the air a week later. He only said the truth, that Oscar was currying favor with the native mexicans, he wasn't being racist about it, just calling Oscar on his bullshit. I don't think a lot of mexicans, here or in mexico ever liked Oscar. They would always root against him when he fought a fellow mexican (vargas, JCC).

 

[mozfonky]

Here's another hot take from @iwannabeadored. Says he rates the current heavyweight era quite a bit higher than the 80s.


But you guys want me to give him the benefit of the doubt over his latest hot take? He has a history of saying ridiculous shit. LOL

what's his hot take?

The 80's division was and is looked down upon but I always thought the raw talent was amazing in that era, just no one could really put everything together and keep it together. Just look at all the guys who on a good night could take the title off of each other:

Tim Witherspoon
Michael Dokes
Mike Weaver
Carl Williams
Pinklon Thomas
Gerry Cooney
Michael Spinks
Tony Tubbs
Buster Douglas
Tony Tucker
Tyrell Biggs
Bonecrusher Smith
Marvis Frazier
Frank Bruno
Gerrie Coetzee... all really talented boxers who had the full assortment of personal issues, drugs, mental instability,sloth and a couple just couldn't take a rap on the chin or were one dimensional. But half the guys here were titleholders at some point, even if just for one fight, and they don't give that to anyone opening a box of crackerjacks you know.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

what's his hot take?

The 80's division was and is looked down upon but I always thought the raw talent was amazing in that era, just no one could really put everything together and keep it together. Just look at all the guys who on a good night could take the title off of each other:

Tim Witherspoon
Michael Dokes
Mike Weaver
Carl Williams
Pinklon Thomas
Gerry Cooney
Michael Spinks
Tony Tubbs
Buster Douglas
Tony Tucker
Tyrell Biggs
Bonecrusher Smith
Marvis Frazier
Frank Bruno
Gerrie Coetzee... all really talented boxers who had the full assortment of personal issues, drugs, mental instability,sloth and a couple just couldn't take a rap on the chin or were one dimensional. But half the guys here were titleholders at some point, even if just for one fight, and they don't give that to anyone opening a box of crackerjacks you know.

Calling the 80s heavyweight era extremely weak while praising the current era as "pretty good". That's stupid. You won't find a champion in that era as limited as Wilder was. That's for sure.

 

[mozfonky]

Calling the 80s heavyweight era extremely weak while praising the current era as "pretty good". That's stupid. You won't find a champion in that era as limited as Wilder was. That's for sure.

no you won't but fair or not, that's the way the era was looked upon then and now. I was a young fan so I was very impressed by a lot of those guys. Dokes had hands about as fast as any heavyweight you'll ever see, Tubbs did too, We had the big punchers like Bruno, bonecrusher, and then we had some guys that could also kayo anyone if they caught them right, witherspoon, weaver. These guys, most of them not all, had long ammie careers and they knew their craft, unlike today. the ones who didn't have much ammie exp like Pinklon Thomas (he and I had the same guy as our early trainer Joe West) had lots of talent and the size to be a force. It was after the seventies so that was a tough act to follow but that era as well as the 90's which wasn't looked upon as strong at the time (now it is) especially when you had Foreman and Holmes competing at the title level and a cruiserweight, former lightheavyweight being at the top of the division. The nineties is seen differently today but the 80's is stilled dogged out even when the fights are there to see, those guys could fight their asses off on a good night, there is a reason that Holmes avoided almost everyone on that list, oh ya, forgot Greg Page.

Several of those guys were touted as "the next big thing" none panned out as the "next ali" or any of that.

 

[listrahtes]

i once heard from that writer from newsweek that tyson actually came out of prison at 175. Never knew if there was any truth to that.

I think that was when he found god and walked around with a white cappy for a time. he was as big as ever and shortly after fought McNeely..

Mike is retired from fighting real opposition but he just had a sanctioned professional bout. I'm just going by the record.

but why ? you are not a lemming and can form your own opinion. Just because some Texan governing body is obvious corrupt and faked a pro fight (Mike would never be granted that in my country) it doesnt mean its real. They had 14ounce gloves for f.... sake (there is no country on this planet were this is considered a fight glove) had 2min rounds , 8 in total. Come on if you think as a boxer you know this was as far away from a pro fight as it can be. Lets call it what it actually was.

 

[MMAK]

pretty good against wlad

Past the prime Wladimir while Fury was young.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I think that was when he found god and walked around with a white cappy for a time. he was as big as ever and shortly after fought McNeely..

but why ? you are not a lemming and can form your own opinion. Just because some Texan governing body is obvious corrupt and faked a pro fight (Mike would never be granted that in my country) it doesnt mean its real. They had 14ounce gloves for f.... sake had 2min rounds , 8 in total. Come on if you think as a boxer you know this was as far away from a pro fight as it can be. Lets call it what it actually was.

It counts on his official record. That's more than enough for me to not consider Mike retired. He actually came out of retirement for this fight. That was part of the appeal to the casuals that watched it. How would Mike look? Well, we know now. Even worse than he did against RJJ in their exhibition.

Jake Paul Brings Mike Tyson Out of Retirement After Hitting Rock Bottom with Drugs and Infamous Ear-Biting

As for his age multiple commissions have sanctioned fighters even older than Mike. In amateur boxing they even have their own Masters division. Here is USA Boxing's 55 and up. They also wear bigger gloves and box a limited number of rounds/minutes per round. It still counts on their amateur records.

 

[mozfonky]

I think that was when he found god and walked around with a white cappy for a time. he was as big as ever and shortly after fought McNeely..

I know, and ironically, he would never be as ripped, huge and defined as he was in his first couple of post prison fights, he looked sensational even if the signs of age were there. So, I don't know where Wallace Matthews got the story that Mike Tyson got on a scale in front of a bunch of people when he got out and was 175, there is no way 175 would transform into what he was by the McNeeley fight, not even with roids. I'm watching a Matthews interview now, interesting guy, didn't know he boxed for a few years himself.

 

[mozfonky]

Past the prime Wladimir while Fury was young.

i thought he would have won no matter what. Wladmir, whether their fans want to hear it or not, were nothing special. Gentlemen, for sure, and thank god this bullshit war hasn't escalated to the point where we'd have lost any of those guys because all the ones I see are decent people and the boxing world would be pissed.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Calling the 80s heavyweight era extremely weak while praising the current era as "pretty good". That's stupid. You won't find a champion in that era as limited as Wilder was. That's for sure.

I don't know if that is "stupid", maybe you're too much in the "today sucks everything was better back then" mindset and are losing perspective. For the most part, the last 5-7 years has been considered a good age for heavyweight boxing. The 80s definitely was considered a weak era.


Picking on Wilder is easy because it's 2024 and everyone is familiar with his short comings. But making this era look bad by pointing out that Wilder was a hw champion (and probably the weakest one) as if the 80s didn't have guys like Mike Weaver, Mike Dokes, or Tony Tubbs as their champs. Those guys have plenty of warts to tear them down.


80s boxing was good for a lot of reasons....heavyweights...no, I wouldn't think so. Commercially it was carried by Mike Tyson.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I don't know if that is "stupid", maybe you're too much in the "today sucks everything was better back then" mindset and are losing perspective. For the most part, the last 5-7 years has been considered a good age for heavyweight boxing. The 80s definitely was considered a weak era.

Picking on Wilder is easy because it's 2024 and everyone is familiar with his short comings. But making this era look bad by pointing out that Wilder was a hw champion (and probably the weakest one) as if the 80s didn't have guys like Mike Weaver, Mike Dokes, or Tony Tubbs as their champs. Those guys have plenty of warts to tear them down.

I don't know of anyone that would rate this heavyweight era higher than the 80s and I've been an Usyk fan since his amateur days. Joshua too. Fury as well just up to a couple years ago. It's asinine to claim that the 80s were very weak compared to this era. Look at the names that were around then. They had more HOFers and higher ranking all-time greats competing, or still competing, in that decade.

Have you seen Fury's & Wilder's respective resumes? They're extremely thin. I also don't think that pointing out how limited Wilder was as a champion is hating. It's the truth. He had like 10 or more title defenses. I'll bet you couldn't name more than 2 or 3 of them.

 

[mozfonky]

I don't know if that is "stupid", maybe you're too much in the "today sucks everything was better back then" mindset and are losing perspective. For the most part, the last 5-7 years has been considered a good age for heavyweight boxing. The 80s definitely was considered a weak era.


Picking on Wilder is easy because it's 2024 and everyone is familiar with his short comings. But making this era look bad by pointing out that Wilder was a hw champion (and probably the weakest one) as if the 80s didn't have guys like Mike Weaver, Mike Dokes, or Tony Tubbs as their champs. Those guys have plenty of warts to tear them down.


80s boxing was good for a lot of reasons....heavyweights...no, I wouldn't think so. Commercially it was carried by Mike Tyson.

naw man, even those guys had more than a right hand. Antonio Tarver called it best after the first Fury fight, "how did you get so far with just a right hand" and "no, no, there is no next time" meaning he had to go back and learn, which he never did, he stubbornly just went to go take more beatings.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

I don't know of anyone that would rate this heavyweight era higher than the 80s and I've been an Usyk fan since his amateur days. Joshua too. Fury as well just up to a couple years ago. It's asinine to claim that the 80s were very weak compared to this era. Look at the names that were around then. They had more HOFers and higher ranking all-time greats competing, or still competing, in that decade.

Have you seen Fury's & Wilder's respective resumes? They're extremely thin. I also don't think that pointing out how limited Wilder was as a champion is hating. It's the truth. He had like 10 or more title defenses. I'll bet you couldn't name more than 2 or 3 of them.

It looks like hating because Wilder is an easy target. But the 80s has MANY champions that quite frankly, are way more forgettable. I actually think your last question is ironic, because in my mind, I absolutely think you genuinely forgot who most of the HW champions of the 80s were. I think if you took the average boxing fan (as in someone who watches boxing every weekend, not just a casual), and told him to name 4 hw champions in the 80s who were in their prime, they would couldn't do it.

HOF is not really relevant, as we are talking about the present era, so of course there will be less HOFers. I'm sure some of the best fighters you were thinking of probably had their primes in the 90s and not the 80s.


The actual core fighters of the 80s were nothing special, and that is putting it very nicely. We can say Wilder and Fury sucks all day, but Dokes, Page, Tubbs, and so on were called paper champs. Nearly every narrative you can make about today's boxing can apply to 80s boxing, and then some.


I dont think Trevor Berbick can beat up Dubois. We can over analyzed Dubois because more people are just familiar with him. Berbick is basically just famous for a couple of high profile losses, and Berbick is nowhere near the most obscure HW champ from his era.

We're basically comparing a 10 year period to a 5 year period also. It's not like Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson were really from the same era. If we stretched things back to 2014, then we'd consider guys like Klitcho brothers as part of this era.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

naw man, even those guys had more than a right hand. Antonio Tarver called it best after the first Fury fight, "how did you get so far with just a right hand" and "no, no, there is no next time" meaning he had to go back and learn, which he never did, he stubbornly just went to go take more beatings.

I never said those guys were more limited than Wilder. I'm talking about how good they are, not who is the most versatile or technical. That is why calling Wilder "limited" there is selective language. It's easy to pick on him.

Wilder got that far with just a right hand because sometimes that's all you need to go far. I have a good jab and I am pretty sure I'd still lose to Wilder.

A lot of 80s champs just grabbed belts because they had powerful promoters behind them, no differently than Wilder.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

It looks like hating because Wilder is an easy target. But the 80s has MANY champions that quite frankly, are way more forgettable. I actually think your last question is ironic, because in my mind, I absolutely think you genuinely forgot who most of the HW champions of the 80s were. I think if you took the average boxing fan (as in someone who watches boxing every weekend, not just a casual), and told him to name 4 hw champions in the 80s who were in their prime, they would couldn't do it.

HOF is not really relevant, as we are talking about the present era, so of course there will be less HOFers. I'm sure some of the best fighters you were thinking of probably had their primes in the 90s and not the 80s.


The actual core fighters of the 80s were nothing special, and that is putting it very nicely. We can say Wilder and Fury sucks all day, but Dokes, Page, Tubbs, and so on were called paper champs. Nearly every narrative you can make about today's boxing can apply to 80s boxing, and then some.


I dont think Trevor Berbick can beat up Dubois.

We're basically comparing a 10 year period to a 5 year period also. It's not like Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson were really from the same era. If we stretched things back to 2014, then we'd consider guys like Klitcho brothers as part of this era.

HOF credentials are irrelevant? They have to be in their prime for it to count? Right. I can already tell you which current heavies will be inducted into the IBHOF. Usyk, Fury & Joshua. That's it. You would take Andy Ruiz over Buster Douglas? Anyhow, here's a list of the champs & contenders from the 80s (incomplete list). Just in case you forgot.

Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Razor Ruddock
James "Buster" Douglas
Carl Williams
Mike Weaver
Gerry Cooney
Leon Spinks
Michael Spinks
Michael Dokes
Gerrie Coetzee
Marty Monroe
Greg Page
Bernardo Mercado
Ken Norton
Tim Witherspoon
Frank Bruno
Pinklon Thomas
James (Bonecrusher) Smith
Tony Tubbs
Trevor Berbick
Tony Tucker
Tyrell Biggs
Adilson Rodrigues
Orlin Norris

 

[mozfonky]

I never said those guys were more limited than Wilder. I'm talking about how good they are, not who is the most versatile or technical. That is why calling Wilder "limited" there is selective language. It's easy to pick on him.

Wilder got that far with just a right hand because sometimes that's all you need to go far. I have a good jab and I am pretty sure I'd still lose to Wilder.

Wilder probably wouldn't get as far as those guys did in that era, there were enough guys capable of locking him out. There were some limited, similarly, guys in that era, Bonecrusher Smith was a guy with big power and not much else, he was able to kayo Bruno after losing 9 rounds and hurt Holmes and Tyson, he also kayoed Witherspoon. Sure that kinda power can take you places But he was never a serious champion. Lucky to ever get a belt, Witherspoon claims the kayo fight was a fix but I don't believe that, personally (sorry Tim, you got caught).

 

[mozfonky]

It looks like hating because Wilder is an easy target. But the 80s has MANY champions that quite frankly, are way more forgettable. I actually think your last question is ironic, because in my mind, I absolutely think you genuinely forgot who most of the HW champions of the 80s were. I think if you took the average boxing fan (as in someone who watches boxing every weekend, not just a casual), and told him to name 4 hw champions in the 80s who were in their prime, they would couldn't do it.

HOF is not really relevant, as we are talking about the present era, so of course there will be less HOFers. I'm sure some of the best fighters you were thinking of probably had their primes in the 90s and not the 80s.


The actual core fighters of the 80s were nothing special, and that is putting it very nicely. We can say Wilder and Fury sucks all day, but Dokes, Page, Tubbs, and so on were called paper champs. Nearly every narrative you can make about today's boxing can apply to 80s boxing, and then some.


I dont think Trevor Berbick can beat up Dubois. We can over analyzed Dubois because more people are just familiar with him. Berbick is basically just famous for a couple of high profile losses, and Berbick is nowhere near the most obscure HW champ from his era.

We're basically comparing a 10 year period to a 5 year period also. It's not like Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson were really from the same era. If we stretched things back to 2014, then we'd consider guys like Klitcho brothers as part of this era.

Berbick was a weird one, not really a great puncher, not a skilled boxer yet somehow, he was able to do some things. I still don't know how he managed that kind of success, he's definitely one of the more limited guys. Big strong guy though. a 39 year old Ali really didn't lose by much to him even though Berbick probably didn't go all out.