I don't get JJ bulking up to HW...

[AfroBanana]

I imagine early in his career he was quite light. He was around 222lb fight night against Gus 2 in Cali.

That’s when he looked a lot more filled out. Wouldn’t be shocked if young bones was called bones for a reason and he came in easily under 220lb.

If I recall GSP was also taking time to gain weight for Silva for a very long time. But his spots was trying to gain 10lbs of lean muscle? or something. But he was doing it as WW champion not inactivity.

Either way most HW’s are just LHW’s that aren’t in peak physical form with the exception of a few. Jon fits right in with most of them, just is a bit smaller frame.

A lot of the size complaining / weight bully stuff with Jon was misplaced. His height, range and being physically strong as a wrestler triggers people into that false claim because he utilizes it so well. He was big but not heavy.

 

[AstralPanda]

True that fat storage can nicely hide a 6 pack, but he's holding it around the belly button where-as just under the rib cage doesn't seem bloated at all. There would at least be some definition just below the rib cage visible if he was doing lots of ab training. To your point... no doubt he's doing some though.

That said, we all need to keep in mind that most 6 packs display themselves when people are focused on staying lean. By contrast... a focus on weight gain is an understandable thing at HW & so he's not too worried about "leaning it out."

I know there are HW's with 6 packs who are natural HW's, but Jones had to make an effort to gain & it's just very understandable that his 6 pack doesn't show. I'm speaking from experience with my own body. I can lean down & make teh muscles shine, but it's a tremendous focus on diet & honestly not really worth it for the effect. The muscle is still the same whether it's slightly hidden by a healthy layer of excess. it's arguably healthier than trying to stay completely trim & lean all the time.

There's definitely more to strength, especially in the context of wrestling and grappling than appearance. A lot of Russians look unimpressive, but they have ridiculous grappling strength. Fedor is an example of someone who punched far above his weight class and appearance. Anyone who grappled or rolled with him said he was a tank.

Jones definitely does a lot of functional lifts, there's really not a lot of need for specified ab training beyond that, unless maybe you're a boxer and need to really chisel up specific areas of the core.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

There's definitely more to strength, especially in the context of wrestling and grappling than appearance. A lot of Russians look unimpressive, but they have ridiculous grappling strength. Fedor is an example of someone who punched far above his weight class and appearance. Anyone who grappled or rolled with him said he was a tank.

Jones definitely does a lot of functional lifts, there's really not a lot of need for specified ab training beyond that, unless maybe you're a boxer and need to really chisel up specific areas of the core.

Well said, & he does have some ab definition even without a focus on being lean, so he's got a good maintenance routine I'd agree.

To your point about people who are strong AF but don't look it... that's all "Type 2" muscle fibers. ("Fast Twitch") & the only way you work those is by power-lifting to near failure... which is what I've personally observed Jones showing on social media in abundance... during his hiatus.

So per this thread of not being able to see the 20lbs of muscle Jones put on... it's due to the difference of the target. He could easily go to high rep/low weight while not pushing to near failure... & that would develop the type of muscle that's spectacular to look at, but isn't as functional or strong. Those big good looking musclez would steal his oxygen too.

 

[PeterGriffin]

Anyone is free to do their homework and look up all those dates for themselves. Easily researchable fact.

It's the real timeline


Not the bs from hater threads that only seem to acknowledge 2021, and then ignore everything that happened afterwards.

But THAT isn't revisionist history though.

Acknowledging the ENTIRE time line is?

Can't make this shit up bro

Please, please please... post a signed BOUT agreement between Jones and Francis. It does not exist.

Jon signed a UFC contract extension (not a bout agreement). That contract should have no bearing on Francis' contract negotiations.

Francis did not sign his UFC contract (also not a bout agreement) he was offered because he disagreed with their ultimatums (he had already fulfilled his original contract terms). When it became clear the impasse between Francis and the UFC would not be resolved, the UFC released Ngannou and Jones was immediately booked in a vacant title fight vs Gane.

And are you trying to claim that Jon never priced himself out of a fight? He never wanted that Deontay Wilder money?? Jon immediately went radio silent when Dana said if Jon wanted the Ngannou fight " they could put that fight together tonight!".

By all means though, put all your faith and trust in what Jon and Dana say. They are absolute pillars of honesty.

 

[TheBulge]

You make a good point. True that fat storage can nicely hide a 6 pack, but he's holding it around the belly button where-as just under the rib cage doesn't seem bloated at all. We do see some definition just below the rib cage visible & so he's been doing some ab training, but he could do more.

That said, we all need to keep in mind that most 6 packs display themselves when people are focused on staying lean. By contrast... a focus on weight gain is an understandable thing at HW & so he's not too worried about "leaning it out."

I know there are HW's with 6 packs who are natural HW's, but Jones had to make an effort to gain & it's just very understandable that his 6 pack doesn't show. I'm speaking from experience with my own body. I can lean down & make teh muscles shine, but it's a tremendous focus on diet & honestly not really worth it for the effect. The muscle is still the same whether it's slightly hidden by a healthy layer of excess. it's arguably healthier than trying to stay completely trim & lean all the time.

Indeed. Last week when he stepped on the scale he was far from shredded but once he flexed his torso the well developed abs could still be seen.

Covered up by a layer of fat. Fedor was posted earlier too. He trained his abs like a mad man too and he would have had thick abs underneath all that fat on his belly.

The earlier post made it sound like Jones just needs to do some crunches and he'll have a Michael Chandler torso.

 

[Harlekin]

It's called a 3 year shadow ban by the testing commission
He put on a belly and not much more

 

[Myrddin Wild]

The earlier post made it sound like Jones just needs to do some crunches and he'll have a Michael Chandler torso.

I agree, & in hindsight the abs thing was something I added in after the main point I was trying to make. Which is that 20lb of type 2 muscle on a 6'4" frame aren't going to stick out. By my own experience, I know what a hastle it is to lean down to teh point where teh hole 6 pack shines & it's certainly not something a guy in his situation needs to be concerned with. (I edited that post since a couple people rightfully called me out on that.)

 

[AstralPanda]

Please, please please... post a signed BOUT agreement between Jones and Francis. It does not exist.

Jon signed a UFC contract extension (not a bout agreement). That contract should have no bearing on Francis' contract negotiations.

Francis did not sign his UFC contract (also not a bout agreement) he was offered because he disagreed with their ultimatums (he had already fulfilled his original contract terms). When it became clear the impasse between Francis and the UFC would not be resolved, the UFC released Ngannou and Jones was immediately booked in a vacant title fight vs Gane.

And are you trying to claim that Jon never priced himself out of a fight? He never wanted that Deontay Wilder money?? Jon immediately went radio silent when Dana said if Jon wanted the Ngannou fight " they could put that fight together tonight!".

By all means though, put all your faith and trust in what Jon and Dana say. They are absolute pillars of honesty.

Negotiations always start big, then they end in the middle. That's how business works.

But, that was the very beginning of those negotiations. People just casually leave out what happened afterwards.

Just before 2022 and early 2022, he said he wasnt sure what Jon would do.

A few months later, after the Gane fight and after Jones basically said he wasnt impressed, the tune changed.

Dana all of a sudden said they were looking to get him a fight.

Around that same time, mid June 2022 or so, Chael, DC and Ariel all reported that Jones was back. As did multiple major media sources.

So. This isn't just Jon's or Dana, it's everyone.

And this is around the time that the same media sources were very vocal that ngannou hasn't signed a deal yet.

Fast forward to end of summer, early autumn 2022, and the media, Ariel and chael all report that the UFC is looking to book Jones vs Stipe for the December card.

According to them, the deal is all but done. Jon goes on Twitter @ stipe saying sign the contract.

However, according to Ariel, the fight was scrapped because the UFC wouldn't give Stipe enough of a pay increase to take it.

Fast forward to the beginning of December, media rumblings kicked up again, Ariel, DC and Chael, along with several websites reported that Jones would fight on the march 2023 card for the HW title and his opponent was contingent with ongoing ngannou contract negotiations.

Anyone is free to reference every source in my posts, fact check all the dates and you'll see it lines up exactly as I said it.

Now, tell me, why would every possible source be strongly and undeniably suggesting that Jones is back, while simultaneously saying ngannou still hasn't signed.

And the icing on the cake, are the words of Ngannou and coach nicksick themselves. Who both said that he was offered the fight for 8 million and could've fought him, but turned it down.

Straight from the horses mouth.

So, are ngannou and his coach lying too?

Did the ufc offer this contract in writing, after a dozen meetings over a year period to get Frank to resign, all the while Jones, being the capstone of the entire deal to keep him in the organization, was just a contingency and not even official yet?

There's a lot of completely irrational, borderline schizophrenic mental gymnastics that have to work for anything you say to be true.

The evidence is clear. Even if we ignored the entire timeline I referenced here, ngannou and his coach told us exactly what happened.

They quite literally told us, word for word that they received a contract / bout agreement to fight Jon Jones.

Make it make sense

 

[AstralPanda]

Indeed. Last week when he stepped on the scale he was far from shredded but once he flexed his torso the well developed abs could still be seen.

Covered up by a layer of fat. Fedor was posted earlier too. He trained his abs like a mad man too and he would have had thick abs underneath all that fat on his belly.

The earlier post made it sound like Jones just needs to do some crunches and he'll have a Michael Chandler torso.

Fedor bless

 

[JBJ was here]

It's called a 3 year shadow ban by the testing commission
He put on a belly and not much more

<Contestant rings in on Jeopardy> What's an idiotic conspiracy theory?
<Host> Correct!

 

[icemun]

Ironically, Francis made the same decision that Jones is currently being criticized for.

He opted for what made the most sense In terms of business and what offered the most financial reward.

I dont think he was scared to fight Jones, but he made more money, with more long term security than staying with the ufc offered.

Coach nicksick said they were offered 8 million to take the Jones fight, but then the amount went down drastically, and in the event he lost, there was no security for every follow up fight, he would be making substantially less.

People always make these decisions about fear, but when you're at that age and stage of your career, it's all business. Fight selection becomes that much more important, especially during a time where guys are trying to find the motivation to keep doing this. The juice needs to be worth the squeeze.

How it was somehow spun around to blame Jones is peak mental gymnastics though. Francis and his coach told us exactly what happened, even If we ignore all the other details.

absolutely on all points

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

He allegedly spent years bulking up to HW.

At LHW he fought around 220.

At HW he fights around 240.

Visually he looks absolutely the same in terms of musculature, but with an additional layer of fat and a rather prominent gut ... which, on a 6'4" man it's easily 15-20 pounds of fat.

So he spent years bulking up to HW to gain <5 pounds of muscle? Like ... totally pointless.

Jones as a 222.5 pound LHW

Jon Jones "bulked up" to 237.5 pound HW

I can see why it took him nearly a decade to figure out how to put on a whopping 15 pounds of that kind of muscle.

 

[checktheknuckles]

Prob spent the 3 years off bc of a roid suspension.

 

[PeterGriffin]

Negotiations always start big, then they end in the middle. That's how business works.

But, that was the very beginning of those negotiations. People just casually leave out what happened afterwards.

Just before 2022 and early 2022, he said he wasnt sure what Jon would do.

A few months later, after the Gane fight and after Jones basically said he wasnt impressed, the tune changed.

Dana all of a sudden said they were looking to get him a fight.

Around that same time, mid June 2022 or so, Chael, DC and Ariel all reported that Jones was back. As did multiple major media sources.

So. This isn't just Jon's or Dana, it's everyone.

And this is around the time that the same media sources were very vocal that ngannou hasn't signed a deal yet.

Fast forward to end of summer, early autumn 2022, and the media, Ariel and chael all report that the UFC is looking to book Jones vs Stipe for the December card.

According to them, the deal is all but done. Jon goes on Twitter @ stipe saying sign the contract.

However, according to Ariel, the fight was scrapped because the UFC wouldn't give Stipe enough of a pay increase to take it.

Fast forward to the beginning of December, media rumblings kicked up again, Ariel, DC and Chael, along with several websites reported that Jones would fight on the march 2023 card for the HW title and his opponent was contingent with ongoing ngannou contract negotiations.

Anyone is free to reference every source in my posts, fact check all the dates and you'll see it lines up exactly as I said it.

Now, tell me, why would every possible source be strongly and undeniably suggesting that Jones is back, while simultaneously saying ngannou still hasn't signed.

And the icing on the cake, are the words of Ngannou and coach nicksick themselves. Who both said that he was offered the fight for 8 million and could've fought him, but turned it down.

Straight from the horses mouth.

So, are ngannou and his coach lying too?

Did the ufc offer this contract in writing, after a dozen meetings over a year period to get Frank to resign, all the while Jones, being the capstone of the entire deal to keep him in the organization, was just a contingency and not even official yet?

There's a lot of completely irrational, borderline schizophrenic mental gymnastics that have to work for anything you say to be true.

The evidence is clear. Even if we ignored the entire timeline I referenced here, ngannou and his coach told us exactly what happened.

They quite literally told us, word for word that they received a contract / bout agreement to fight Jon Jones.

Make it make sense

Does the UFC negotiate in bad faith? Absolutely, they do. Are you so naive as to not even realize that? Dana and the UFC make it difficult for fighters to leave while the UFC sees a value in them. This is well-documented. The UFC threw out two offers, used fighter A's pending offer to influence fighter B's decision (and vice versa), and Jones bent the knee.

It got Jones fighting again, didn't it?

The UFC made Francis an ultimatum, not an offer. Francis countered their terms with his own, the UFC would not agree to terms, so Francis REFUSED because it offered him no protection or freedom. Francis put the ball back in the UFC's court, and they chose to release him immediately instead of completing he obligatory matching period.

If Jones' nuthuggers and the UFC shills need to pretend that Frank was scared of Jones to help themselves sleep at night, so be it.

Far be it for anyone to think that maybe that was all just another scheme for Dana to fellate Jones. Wouldn't be the first time, would it?

 

[AstralPanda]

Does the UFC negotiate in bad faith? Absolutely, they do. Are you so naive as to not even realize that? Dana and the UFC make it difficult for fighters to leave while the UFC sees a value in them. This is well-documented. The UFC threw out two offers, used fighter A's pending offer to influence fighter B's decision (and vice versa), and Jones bent the knee.

It got Jones fighting again, didn't it?

The UFC made Francis an ultimatum, not an offer. Francis countered their terms with his own, the UFC would not agree to terms, so Francis REFUSED because it offered him no protection or freedom. Francis put the ball back in the UFC's court, and they chose to release him immediately instead of completing he obligatory matching period.

If Jones' nuthuggers and the UFC shills need to pretend that Frank was scared of Jones to help themselves sleep at night, so be it.

Far be it for anyone to think that maybe that was all just another scheme for Dana to fellate Jones. Wouldn't be the first time, would it?

So, was frank lying?

They didn't offer him that fight?

Do you think the ufc offers such a high profile event and contract on a contingency?

For what you say to be true, even ignoring the very clear timeline I've drawn up, you would have to assume that both frank and his coach are basically being misled.

This is obviously a very emotional thing for you and ultimately, that's the problem.

You're operating purely on emotion, but ignore any semblance of rationality.

I couldn't imagine living with the degree of cognitive dissonance that you do.

But, as I've said many times before, Jones isn't the problem. These debate only point the mirror back at you, and expose your own limitations, your own character flaws, your own lack of depth.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

He pretty much does look like he basically spent the last few months drinking beer, eating chicken wings, roll off the couch and dominated 2 heavyweights. We know he’s obviously training really hard. He always has. But in terms of diet yeah it’s obviously shit.

 

[HHJ]

Hypertrophy gains isn't useful for him. Larger muscles = gas easier

What he wants is getting stronger but at the same increasing muscle mass the least. And adding some extra fat to be able to match the other HWs in grappling exchanges.

Thats basically what Fedor did

 

[p4pfighters]

It's harder to build quality muscle when you are not on PEDs

 

[Oscar Madison]

He allegedly spent years bulking up to HW.

At LHW he fought around 220.

At HW he fights around 240.

Visually he looks absolutely the same in terms of musculature, but with an additional layer of fat and a rather prominent gut ... which, on a 6'4" man it's easily 15-20 pounds of fat.

So he spent years bulking up to HW to gain <5 pounds of muscle? Like ... totally pointless.

He has already explained it in detail.

 

[13Seconds]

People have no clue how this shit works and it's apparent in threads like this.

Looking like a fucking body builder serves zero purpose in MMA. All that muscle burns oxygen.

It does serve a purpose if your mission is to get your opponent out of there in round 1. Fast twitch muscle fibers is a thing.

It's not ideal for MMA, but saying it serves zero purpose is wrong.