I been watching some Sugar Ray Robinson videos. Where does he stand on the GOAT list?

I know nothing about basketball but some folks say wilt chamberlain is the best, even chamberlain's arch enemy, kareem, said that Michael Jordan, "Jordan hasn't come close to what wilt did" . I don't know that sport but just researching wilt is mind blowing, a guy who did amazing things in track and field, was actually so strong that he had to tone it down, he dunked a ball and broke a guys foot with it, Arnold Schwarzenegger was quoted saying he could lift him with one arm, and you just say "bullshit". I used to read wilt's interviews and think "just hot air and ego" but the stories don't only come from him, Arnold said wilt did tricep extensions with 170 pounds and wilt said that when he worked out with Arnold on the conan set, he intimidated Arnold so much that he never came near the weights with wilt around again. Arnold doesn't dispute the stories. It's possible for an athlete to surpass athletes after them, it's been said that wilt could have held shaq in his arms like a baby.
I used to hate the fact that wilt thought he could beat ali in the ring, I still don't think he could do it but who knows. He definitely was a superior athlete to Ali, Ali couldn't even outrun Wilma rudoph, wilt chamberlain outran Jim Brown fairly easily, just amazing. the newest ain't always the best.

 
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Hagler said:
He dominated for quite some time back in the days when the talent pool was deep, and clearly had a bunch of impressive physical and technical tools. We’ll never know how he’d do today but assuming he’d be mediocre is kind of weird.
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I think he’d be mediocre.
 
mozfonky said:
I know nothing about basketball but some folks say wilt chamberlain is the best, even chamberlain's arch enemy, kareem, said that Michael Jordan, "Jordan hasn't come close to what wilt did" . I don't know that sport but just researching wilt is mind blowing, a guy who did amazing things in track and field, was actually so strong that he had to tone it down, he dunked a ball and broke a guys foot with it, Arnold Schwarzenegger was quoted saying he could lift him with one arm, and you just say "bullshit". I used to read wilt's interviews and think "just hot air and ego" but the stories don't only come from him, Arnold said wilt did tricep extensions with 170 pounds and wilt said that when he worked out with Arnold on the conan set, he intimidated Arnold so much that he never came near the weights with wilt around again. Arnold doesn't dispute the stories. It's possible for an athlete to surpass athletes after them, it's been said that wilt could have held shaq in his arms like a baby.
I used to hate the fact that wilt thought he could beat ali in the ring, I still don't think he could do it but who knows. He definitely was a superior athlete to Ali, Ali couldn't even outrun Wilma rudoph, wilt chamberlain outran Jim Brown fairly easily, just amazing. the newest ain't always the best.

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Yeah his accomplishments and secondary description of him border on mythological folklore. How can a man so wirey be at 7'1" 276 lbs. Shaq was the same height and weight but built like a tank. How could he be so strong but have not much muscle mass, how did he only win 2 championships if he was averaging 40+ points a game and 22 rebs a game and 10 blocks or so. It's astonishing yet some things don't seem to add up. The 100 pts in a game are definitely real, but Wilt will always be an enigma for some reason. Probably the single most impressive specimen of a human that ever lived, almost to Superhuman ahead of his time.

But for most, from pure basketball standards, Michael Jordan still stands above. And a large part of that is because of what he accomplished in such a dominant fashion for so long with LESS physical attributes than Wilt. Jordan was ONLY 6"6' 210 - 215 lbs, yet was equally as unstoppable in his own right. He won 6 titles out of 6 attempts and broke every record in the NBA but Wilt's. Interesting argument for sure.
 
nastyleft said:
Yeah his accomplishments and secondary description of him border on mythological folklore. How can a man so wirey be at 7'1" 276 lbs. Shaq was the same height and weight but built like a tank. How could he be so strong but have not much muscle mass, how did he only win 2 championships if he was averaging 40+ points a game and 22 rebs a game and 10 blocks or so. It's astonishing yet some things don't seem to add up. The 100 pts in a game are definitely real, but Wilt will always be an enigma for some reason. Probably the single most impressive specimen of a human that ever lived, almost to Superhuman ahead of his time.

But for most, from pure basketball standards, Michael Jordan still stands above. And a large part of that is because of what he accomplished in such a dominant fashion for so long with LESS physical attributes than Wilt. Jordan was ONLY 6"6' 210 - 215 lbs, yet was equally as unstoppable in his own right. He won 6 titles out of 6 attempts and broke every record in the NBA but Wilt's. Interesting argument for sure.
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With his build, the bench press stat is very suspicious but he sounds like he could be just what others are saying, the greatest athlete ever. Plenty of witnesses to his feats. Bruce lee holding 120 out at arms length is similar in that you just think it's not possible for a man with his build but the stories are out there.
 
mozfonky said:
With his build, the bench press stat is very suspicious but he sounds like he could be just what others are saying, the greatest athlete ever. Plenty of witnesses to his feats. Bruce lee holding 120 out at arms length is similar in that you just think it's not possible for a man with his build but the stories are out there.
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I agree it's hard to grasp the stories as real. but like you said they are out there.
 
nastyleft said:
Yeah his accomplishments and secondary description of him border on mythological folklore. How can a man so wirey be at 7'1" 276 lbs. Shaq was the same height and weight but built like a tank. How could he be so strong but have not much muscle mass, how did he only win 2 championships if he was averaging 40+ points a game and 22 rebs a game and 10 blocks or so. It's astonishing yet some things don't seem to add up. The 100 pts in a game are definitely real, but Wilt will always be an enigma for some reason. Probably the single most impressive specimen of a human that ever lived, almost to Superhuman ahead of his time.

But for most, from pure basketball standards, Michael Jordan still stands above. And a large part of that is because of what he accomplished in such a dominant fashion for so long with LESS physical attributes than Wilt. Jordan was ONLY 6"6' 210 - 215 lbs, yet was equally as unstoppable in his own right. He won 6 titles out of 6 attempts and broke every record in the NBA but Wilt's. Interesting argument for sure.
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Maybe he only lifted those kinds of weights when he got older. He wasn't that wirey anymore when he started reaching his late 30's.

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James Harden is currently also scoring record-breaking numbers, but it seems unlikely that he will be winning a championship. One man does not win basketball games, especially when other teams also have stand-out players. Jordan only started winning championships when other players in his team stood up.

As for Ray Robinson, here's some rare footage of him at his peak.



It's easy to see why he was considered one of the supreme athletes of his day. Physically he was just on another level to most of the fighters of his era. He was landing triple left hooks on guys when most people struggled to double up their punches.

That's why, if we rate him relative to his era, he has to be rated at or around the very top of the sport. Even today, very few fighters can boast to have his combination of speed and power. A lot of fighters are fast, and a lot of fighters are powerful, but not that many possess both attributes in spades like Robinson did. Fighters like Shane Mosley, Ray Leonard, Roy Jones and Thomas Hearns usually become the stuff of legends.

This, combined with his advanced technical skill for the era, massive fight experience, high ring IQ, 15 round stamina, alongside a stone-wall of a chin which never failed him in hundreds of fights, between lightweight to light heavyweight, made him an extra-ordinarily difficult opponent to beat.

He didn't just stop guys, he knocked people flat out. Some of his knockouts looked like murder scenes.

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mozfonky said:
I know nothing about basketball but some folks say wilt chamberlain is the best, even chamberlain's arch enemy, kareem, said that Michael Jordan, "Jordan hasn't come close to what wilt did" . I don't know that sport but just researching wilt is mind blowing, a guy who did amazing things in track and field, was actually so strong that he had to tone it down, he dunked a ball and broke a guys foot with it, Arnold Schwarzenegger was quoted saying he could lift him with one arm, and you just say "bullshit". I used to read wilt's interviews and think "just hot air and ego" but the stories don't only come from him, Arnold said wilt did tricep extensions with 170 pounds and wilt said that when he worked out with Arnold on the conan set, he intimidated Arnold so much that he never came near the weights with wilt around again. Arnold doesn't dispute the stories. It's possible for an athlete to surpass athletes after them, it's been said that wilt could have held shaq in his arms like a baby.
I used to hate the fact that wilt thought he could beat ali in the ring, I still don't think he could do it but who knows. He definitely was a superior athlete to Ali, Ali couldn't even outrun Wilma rudoph, wilt chamberlain outran Jim Brown fairly easily, just amazing. the newest ain't always the best.

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Bill Russell was up there as well.
Theres a video from the 50s of him flying down the court and leaping over someone and laying it up.
They were tremendous athletes back in the day.
 
DeJulez said:
Bill Russell was up there as well.
Theres a video from the 50s of him flying down the court and leaping over someone and laying it up.
They were tremendous athletes back in the day.
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ya, bill was special. They say wilt just didn't have the drive and killer instinct that could have made him better. I think SI left him off their best 50 athletes of the century which is ridiculous by any standard. But even he admitted that he liked to enjoy life and that bill was right about him not having his drive. He was also gentle at heart and was worried about hurting people, so, he had to soften up his approach and even then people got hurt by him. him outrunning jim brown is super impressive, he did it twice, jim was about as competitive as they get, to the point of being an idiot.

the bench press stories are not only hard to believe because of his wireness but also because guys with long limbs usually have a harder time with weights, I know I do. I've seen stubby guys lift all kinds of weight, they just have physiological advantages many times. Wilt was said to still be lifting 465 into his fifties. Arnolds stories had to be true, egomaniacs seldom give that kind of praise and usually just talk shit.
 
wilt's death is interesting too, I read an article that said it was possible that he may have had a heart issue from venereal disease from his self promoted "20,000 women" what's even more interesting is that there was a rumor from his team that he had a heart attack around 64-65. Like Bruce Lee, a superman who had some minor flaw that brought him down albeit bruce died a lot younger. You'd think an athlete would have a powerful heart and it failed him. Pete Maravich had a heart issue too, I think his was a birth defect.
 
Robinson is the goat and could beat anybody. That doesn’t mean he is a bust proof god but if y’all think he couldn’t hang with the modern guys because of some bs about nutrition or a misguided belief that the sport evolved your fooling yourself.
 
Spence is so over rated it is laughable. I didn’t realise beating Kell Brook makes you better than SRR! Feel for Carson Jones now ...
 
Tom B said:
Spence is so over rated it is laughable. I didn’t realise beating Kell Brook makes you better than SRR! Feel for Carson Jones now ...
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Brook is the best you're giving Spence? Really
 
Stormtrooper85 said:
Brook is the best you're giving Spence? Really
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Well he actually gave him a beat down in the second half of that fight. And considering Brook best Porter who’s his other good win I think it’s fair enough
 
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