HW GOAT?

spinup said:
Against a 265lbs wrestler/ BJJ brown belt , and he didn't throw a single punch in that fight which makes it even more hilarious.
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That's awesome. I'm on that war wagon. If he can string together some solid defenses he will be in the conversation legit.
 
JKS said:
The whole Cain cardio thing is a myth. The only two fights where he went 25 was vs JDS, and that was a fight where he dictated the pace vs a fighter that didn't offer too much in return. And even in those fights he was tired beyond round 3. What happened vs Werdum? Where the opponent returned the offense?? Not to say Cain didn't have great cardio for HW, he really did. But it wasn't beyond the other HWs who are know for cardio. I've seen guys like Josh Barmett and Cormier put on just as much pressure and output and have more left in the tank.
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In the second JDS fight Cain was literally spamming takedowns for 2 rounds. That takes a huge amount of cardio. Check how quickly Esparza, one of the smallest fighters in the UFC, gassed doing that against Joanna and there are many more examples. And he was still the faster fighter until the end.
 
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Cclick said:
Let's not do this again

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Striker Fox said:
You seem really shook with the name calling, and feeling the need to add guys like Rodgers, Fujita and a one dimensional 40 year old LHW sized Coleman, LHW Randleman, LHW Sobral and Shilt. You really believe beating those guys and other cans in a corrupt Japanese MMA circuit, which may or may not have been fixed fights, makes Fedor so much more accomplished than Cain.


You stated "fairly prime Fedor". Not prime Fedor.


And Vitor Belfort was HW champ. He could've been a legit HW contender in the modern era too, I guess. Weight doesn't equate to size. If Conor McGregor bulked up to 185 lbs, does that make him the same size as Usman? Of course not. It's fake size.


Actually who would likely win head to head is a big part of how I personally view the GOAT. Resume is part of it, but I only compared the legit wins for each because it was said that Cain is all "speculation", which is false considering he had many legit wins, and by dominating performance. Was also the UFC champion.


Maybe you need to look up the definition of "campaign". Replying to a topic with my top 5 HW GOATs, then replying to you replying to me is simply stating my beliefs on an MMA forum like everyone else.

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If you're gonna throw in names like Rothwell and Kongo, I am gonna throw in names like Rogers and Fujita. What do you think you have some sort of privilage here?? And now you keep changing the goal posts and talking about a one dimensional Coleman lol?? You mean Coleman at 240 lbs. You criticize Coleman for being one dimensional.....but yet JDS is Cains best win and he's the definition of one dimensional, same with Kongo.

You criticize Fedor competition but yet won't peep anything about Cain. Who you can criticize the same things for like fighting one dimensional and past their prime fighters. And then you keep changing the argument around lol like bringing up Pride as a corrupt organization. Bit biased here.

Vitor was never HW champ. Please get your history straight when bringing up points. Vitor won a UFC tournament, he contended for the Hw title and lost. But in regards to Coleman, he was a legit size HW, Vitor was not, he was bulked up and juiced up. Coleman was a HW his entire career till his last 3 fights when he was old. Coleman when he was in his early 20s wrestled at 220lbs and then as a fighter was 240. Your comparision is correct, but not in regards to Coleman.

No one considers who would win as anything to define a goat lol. I don't know what kind of fantasy world you live in. That is all heavily opinion based. And the same reasons why you would think Cain wins over Fedor, you can turn right around and say Fedor can do the same based on how Cain lost. Everything is based on resume and record, real facts. And that why no one besides you thinks Cain is goat. The general consensus is he could have been among the best, but didn't have enough fights.

Like I said....the guy has less than 10 fights to build a legacy on. You can't even base it on skill and who would win scenarios cause Cain didn't face enough competition to gauge that. You literally have 5 opponents to choose from.

Listen man, in the end you can think what you like. But there is a reason why 90% of the people say Fedor.
 
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JKS said:
If you're gonna throw in names like Rothwell and Kongo, I am gonna throw in names like Rogers and Fujita. What do you think you have some sort of privilage here?? And now you keep changing the goal posts and talking about a one dimensional Coleman lol?? You mean Coleman at 240 lbs. You criticize Coleman for being one dimensional.....but yet JDS is Cains best win and he's the definition of one dimensional, same with Kongo.

You criticize Fedor competition but yet won't peep anything about Cain. Who you can criticize the same things for like fighting one dimensional and past their prime fighters. And then you keep changing the argument around lol like bringing up Pride as a corrupt organization. Bit biased here.

Vitor was never HW champ. Please get your history straight when bringing up points. Vitor won a UFC tournament, he contended for the Hw title and lost. But in regards to Coleman, he was a legit size HW, Vitor was not, he was bulked up and juiced up. Coleman was a HW his entire career till his last 3 fights when he was old. Coleman when he was in his early 20s wrestled at 220lbs and then as a fighter was 240. Your comparision is correct, but not in regards to Coleman.

No one considers who would win as anything to define a goat lol. I don't know what kind of fantasy world you live in. That is all heavily opinion based. And the same reasons why you would think Cain wins over Fedor, you can turn right around and say Fedor can do the same based on how Cain lost. Everything is based on resume and record, real facts. And that why no one besides you thinks Cain is goat. The general consensus is he could have been among the best, but didn't have enough fights.

Like I said....the guy has less than 10 fights to build a legacy on. You can't even base it on skill and who would win scenarios cause Cain didn't face enough competition to gauge that. You literally have 5 opponents to choose from.

Listen man, in the end you can think what you like. But there is a reason why 90% of the people say Fedor.
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We're going around in circles here....

But JDS wasn't one dimensional. Great striking, great defensive wrestling (TDD), black belt in BJJ since 2012, though we've only seen him on the ground against GOAT Cain since he became supposed high level.

Coleman, Fujita, Sobral, Schilt beat nobodies at HW. I'll count Randleman as a legit HW since he landed the Hail Mary on Mirko and Rizzo.

Cain and Fedor have about as many legit wins as one another, and Cain is a stylistic nightmare for Fedor. Fedor had trouble with smaller wrestlers than Cain, but got lucky because Coleman and Randleman had trash BJJ. Cain has a black belt BJJ. Fedor had trouble under Arona and Bigfoot Silva, two guys with at least black belts. Arona obviously more legit, and possibly multiple degree at that point in 2000, not sure though. Yes Fedor can land a JDS esque bomb since they're HWs, but Cain should be the favorite every time they fight.

It's cool though everybody has different perspectives on what makes a GOAT. Fedor is my #3.
 
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Striker Fox said:
S5Yu-kAtJYmVojwKiJESEk6wyQiTvSvFWRCkFOp9ChbTyVr11OLejlVh-rxe2jEIkWp9Zikg3IEOp4t8B5cBoeyaymAkf3paIZNSpe2o2g

bill-russell-bored-at-game-7.gif

We're going around in circles here....

But JDS wasn't one dimensional. Great striking, great defensive wrestling (TDD), black belt in BJJ since 2012, though we've only seen him on the ground against GOAT Cain since he became supposed high level.

Coleman, Fujita, Sobral, Schilt beat nobodies at HW. I'll count Randleman as a legit HW since he landed the Hail Mary on Mirko and Rizzo.

Cain and Fedor have about as many legit wins as one another, and Cain is a stylistic nightmare for Fedor. Fedor had trouble with smaller wrestlers than Cain, but got lucky because Coleman and Randleman had trash BJJ. Cain has a black belt BJJ. Fedor had trouble under Arona and Bigfoot Silva, two guys with at least black belts. Arona obviously more legit, and possibly multiple degree at that point in 2000, not sure though. Yes Fedor can land a JDS esque bomb since they're HWs, but Cain should be the favorite every time they fight.

It's cool though everybody has different perspectives on what makes a GOAT. Fedor is my #3.
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Well, to be fair those guy didn't beat nobodies. It was just a much earlier time and they beat relevant HWs at the time. It's the same as Kongo and Rothwell. But sounds good to me!

I'd like to ask a question though. Let's take Fedor out of this. How do you rank Cain over Cormier?? All time at HW? I am just curious.
 
JKS said:
Well, to be fair those guy didn't beat nobodies. It was just a much earlier time and they beat relevant HWs at the time. It's the same as Kongo and Rothwell. But sounds good to me!

I'd like to ask a question though. Let's take Fedor out of this. How do you rank Cain over Cormier?? All time at HW? I am just curious.
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I believe Jon Fitch said it best about Cain vs DC:
Just based on size, you have two guys who are equally skilled, equal work ethic, equal punching power, equal everything, you're going to put your money on the guy who is bigger
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And the way Cain mauled an all time great like JDS in his prime twice was better than anything DC has done at HW imo.
 
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Striker Fox said:
I believe Jon Fitch said it best about Cain vs DC:

And the way Cain mauled an all time great like JDS in his prime twice was better than anything DC has done at HW imo.
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I am not talking about who wins here. I am talking about who is higher on the greatest HW discussion. Both very similar records, DC at 15-2 and Cain at 14-3.
 
JKS said:
I am not talking about who wins here. I am talking about who is higher on the greatest HW discussion. Both very similar records, DC at 15-2 and Cain at 14-3.
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DC dominating Barnett, and getting the KO over Stipe are impressive, but I believe the way Cain beat prime JDS twice is more impressive than any of DC's wins.

They are so close in skill and HW resume though.
 
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MMA fans have super low standards

BTW. It has to be Fedor or Big Nog.

For me it's Bob SAP, cuz he trained for a few months and almost beat big Nog and hoost twice :) that was some GOAT level stuff.
 
Fedor. But he lost a few fight after going 10 years undefeated.
So Jones, but he did roids and cheated
So Gsp, but he got knocked out by Serra.
So Anderson. But he cheated and lost to Bisping.
So khabib, but he only beat mostly scrubs except his last few fights.

Well that is for all time goat.
For heavyweight, no one else can even put a few wins in a row together, let alone 10 years of them.
 
Deja Vu.......how many times will this be asked?
 
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