How we ruined grappling Sports

[jack36767]

Close...the real point was that rule manipulation in an attempt to attract television contracts is the wrong way to
Govern an ancient sport

But I forgot just how bad folkstyle has infected, affected and effected grappling sports like Judo, freestyle and greco

The complete prostitution of the grappling world at the financial behest of the Tele adverts in the Olympics has really taken my focus.

Jack, I remember you denying that grappling sports were getting pimped by the television executives..

You think they change the rules to honor the sport

They keep changing the rules
(like hand clasping)
In a desperate and misguided attempt to gain television exposure.

They want big throws and takedowns

Yet ironically shun Olympic styles

They always looked jealously at fake wrasslin, foot ball and basketball and dreamed one day of corporate sponsorshiand television vewiership!

But because of folkstyle cancerous effect guys like Dan Cormier got their asses beart by Russians and Iranians in the Olympics and cemented folkstyles fate as a weird niche sport that nobody could understand and the television executives wisely accessed the situation

Americans would never beat the Russians and middle eastern countries that wrestle from childhood and focus exclusively on olympic styles.

And since Americans are still getting their asses beat at all the Olympic combat sports (and MMA)

It looks like that's our fate.

The hand clasping rule is not a rule change.. god you are stupid. And the “Freestyle” people are more to blame than anyone else. FREESTYLE rules invented created by non Americans led to shitty ass ratings world wide. FREESTYLE rules were unwatchable, with the winning 2/3 2min periods with leg clench (rules specifically designed to disadvantage Americans). Again not created by folkstyle people, or Americans but by the corrupt FILA. It was being one of the most corrupt sports run by Russian gangsters that led the IOC not to care if Olympics was cut. It was not having anyone on the IOC board. It was freestyle rules being made needlessly complicated and then the corrupt officials making it even more confusing to watch. Don’t get me started about Greco.

Oh and I said the reason folkstyle wasn’t more popular isn’t because it was too complicated. You see I’m both up to date and see the big picture

I know you are too out of date to know the New Freestyle rules, but they are watchable on tv AND help keep the spirit of the sport and it’s popularity is growing

You keep asserting this asinine viewpoint folkstyle ratings had anything to with the IOC decision. Folkstyle on TV in the US has more to do with Administrative decisions and politics done(or really not done) going back years. The sport being complicated is not what stops it from getting on tv or being popular. See American football

And yes.. less folkstyle wrestlers are going into mma.. because they are staying in wrestling and winning medals. The Olympic scare exposed a rot and corruption in freestyle wrestling even your homeland of South Africa would be proud of. Luckily ways were found to keep our best American wrestlers from going to mma or coaching and it’s only taken 3 years to see the difference. The corruption is slowly getting better

Now it’s obvious you are incapable of either being unbiased or at least being honest. This is really an excuse to diss on the EVIL MEANY AMERICANS. Jesus it’s so obvious you are uneducated. Also I’ll take having folkstyle if it means more young men and women get to experience the worlds greatest sport in any of its wonderful and varied forms.

Oh and like I said, I’ve exposed you for the liar you are

 

[-guerilla-]

The hand clasping rule is not a rule change.. god you are stupid. And the “Freestyle” people are more to blame than anyone else. FREESTYLE rules invented created by non Americans led to shitty ass ratings world wide. FREESTYLE rules were unwatchable, with the winning 2/3 2min periods with leg clench (rules specifically designed to disadvantage Americans). Again not created by folkstyle people, or Americans but by the corrupt FILA. It was being one of the most corrupt sports run by Russian gangsters that led the IOC not to care if Olympics was cut. It was not having anyone on the IOC board. It was freestyle rules being made needlessly complicated and then the corrupt officials making it even more confusing to watch. Don’t get me started about Greco.

Oh and I said the reason folkstyle wasn’t more popular isn’t because it was too complicated. You see I’m both up to date and see the big picture

I know you are too out of date to know the New Freestyle rules, but they are watchable on tv AND help keep the spirit of the sport and it’s popularity is growing

You keep asserting this asinine viewpoint folkstyle ratings had anything to with the IOC decision. Folkstyle on TV in the US has more to do with Administrative decisions and politics done(or really not done) going back years. The sport being complicated is not what stops it from getting on tv or being popular. See American football

And yes.. less folkstyle wrestlers are going into mma.. because they are staying in wrestling and winning medals. The Olympic scare exposed a rot and corruption in freestyle wrestling even your homeland of South Africa would be proud of. Luckily ways were found to keep our best American wrestlers from going to mma or coaching and it’s only taken 3 years to see the difference. The corruption is slowly getting better

Now it’s obvious you are incapable of either being unbiased or at least being honest. This is really an excuse to diss on the EVIL MEANY AMERICANS. Jesus it’s so obvious you are uneducated. Also I’ll take having folkstyle if it means more young men and women get to experience the worlds greatest sport in any of its wonderful and varied forms.

Oh and like I said, I’ve exposed you for the liar you are

It used to be legal to clasp your hands in folkstyle ...but they CHANGED the rules!


Football is VERY simple compared to wrestling and they are wildly different sports.

American TV ratings were 95% responsible for the near elimination of wrestling from the Olympics.

They bannd leg grabbing in Judo because they feared all the unemployed wrestlers coming to Judo and ruining the sport.

All sports have elements of corruption.

I really enjoy the effort your putting into this thread but your setting a bad example as a coach with insults and personal attacks.

 

[yetanother]

Do you have a source for wrestlers actually doing well doing wrestling in high level judo competition?

 

[jack36767]

It used to be legal to clasp your hands in folkstyle ...but they CHANGED the rules!


Football is VERY simple compared to wrestling and they are wildly different sports.

American TV ratings were 95% responsible for the near elimination of wrestling from the Olympics.

They bannd leg grabbing in Judo because they feared all the unemployed wrestlers coming to Judo and ruining the sport.

All sports have elements of corruption.

I really enjoy the effort your putting into this thread but your setting a bad example as a coach with insults and personal attacks.

Sigh, I have a low tolerance for liars and and my stupidity tolerance gets used up every day

 

[rmongler]

 

[Daniel Fox]

Do you have a source for wrestlers actually doing well doing wrestling in high level judo competition?

This was the actual match that led to the no leg grab rule change. Naidan Tuvshinbayar was a former Mongolian wrestler who went into Judo, and used his wrestling techniques very successfully. He was the 2008 Olympic Gold medalist. He continued to successfully compete in Judo after the leg grab rule.

I actually do both Wrestling and Judo, and I think Judo will make your wrestling better, and wrestling will make your Judo better, with that said the IJF has really bastardized the sport of Judo.

To be clear Naidan Tuvshinbayar is a Judoka, however he was first a successful Mongolian Style wrestler, who used techniques from Mongolian Wrestling in Judo.

 

[yetanother]

Isn't Mongolian wrestling done in a jacket?

 

[DatCutman]

Isn't Mongolian wrestling done in a jacket?

Sort of; it's a hard leather vest. If grappling sports were a fashion contest, the Mongolians would wreck us all.

But to address your ultimate point, he went from one jacketed grappling style to another. Doesn't address the request of finding a "wrestler" (a non-jacketed grappling sport) who excelled in high level judo competition (a jacketed grappling sport).

The semantics of a "Monglian Wrestler" and a "Mongolian who wrestles" can make for confusion. Hence why I prefer to call "Mongolian Wrestlers" Bokh Practicioners, leaving a Mongolian wrestler to be someone who engages in olympic wrestling, from mongolia. I'm sure everyone is super interested in my taxonomy of grapplers.

Sidebar to these conversations, Bokh is usually in the resume of tough motherfuckers. Doesn't really matter what sport they later transition on to (Sumo, Wrestling, Judo), they're tough as nails.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Sort of; it's a hard leather vest. If grappling sports were a fashion contest, the Mongolians would wreck us all.

But to address your ultimate point, he went from one jacketed grappling style to another. Doesn't address the request of finding a "wrestler" (a non-jacketed grappling sport) who excelled in high level judo competition (a jacketed grappling sport).

The semantics of a "Monglian Wrestler" and a "Mongolian who wrestles" can make for confusion. Hence why I prefer to call "Mongolian Wrestlers" Bokh Practicioners, leaving a Mongolian wrestler to be someone who engages in olympic wrestling, from mongolia. I'm sure everyone is super interested in my taxonomy of grapplers.

Sidebar to these conversations, Bokh is usually in the resume of tough motherfuckers. Doesn't really matter what sport they later transition on to (Sumo, Wrestling, Judo), they're tough as nails.

Everything you are saying is true, however leg attacks are a large part of Mongolian wrestling. Standing double legs, single legs, and ankle picks are very common. This is why Mongolian wrestlers transfer as easily into wrestling as they do into Judo.

 

[-guerilla-]

This was the actual match that led to the no leg grab rule change. Naidan Tuvshinbayar was a former Mongolian wrestler who went into Judo, and used his wrestling techniques very successfully. He was the 2008 Olympic Gold medalist. He continued to successfully compete in Judo after the leg grab rule.

I actually do both Wrestling and Judo, and I think Judo will make your wrestling better, and wrestling will make your Judo better, with that said the IJF has really bastardized the sport of Judo.

To be clear Naidan Tuvshinbayar is a Judoka, however he was first a successful Mongolian Style wrestler, who used techniques from Mongolian Wrestling in Judo.

I feel you are partially correct but omitted the bigger reason...i have an equal time in judo and wrestling and I couldent agree more about the cross training advantage
(with some grip modifications of course)
(And of course post leg grab ban judo is WORTHLESS)

Naidan Tuvshinbayar and a whole host of wrestlers were winning in Olympic Judo with yuk o's and Wazas and not going for the big traditionally "important" ippons.


this already had the judo traditionalist grumbling but when it was apparent that wrestling was going to be dropped from the 2020 Olympics thanks to Americans unique rules in folkstyles wrestlings and its failure to produce olympic medalists and thus gain traction for American TV audiences...

PLUS the traditional
"bad guys" from Muslim and Soviet Bloc countries dominating wrestling they were getting super worried about the big $$$$ American TV advertising revenue!!!!


You see... it was a very real possibility that tens of thousands of freestyle and Greco athletes from Soviet bloc and Muslim countries we're about to desend on the sport of judo since it would be the last grappling medal sport (and the Russians were already very good at it) they PANICKED and banned all leg holds...(even defensive) from the sport of judo.

This heavily advantages taller athletes and teddy Reiner of France became unstoppable but that's another thread.

you see if McDonalds can't sell french fries and soda pops to your viewer base you're just not valuable in the Olympics anymore

And all this because America had to go and invent its own style of wrestling instead of joining the rest of the world in the Olympics where they would have done great because American kids would grow up learning the Olympic style and thus be competitive or most likely dominate.


American champions would have gained traction in TV audiences and today America would have more top 20 fighters that dominate MMA and most of the grappling Sports in the Olympics but instead we invented our own particular version of a sport...like

American football vs rugby

And

American kickboxing vs international rules


America just doesn't want to compete with the rest of the world and invented its own sports.

 

[Daniel Fox]

As far as Judo is concerned American's did not have any influence in the no leg grab rule. The IJF is located in Switzerland, and most American coaches, and Judo players were actually against the rule. Jimmy Pedro, and Rhadi Ferguson actually spoke out against it. I put the blame solely on the IJF (which is European), from what I understand the Kodokan does not recognize the no leg grab rule. Unfortunately most tournaments are done by IJF rules, and most clubs train to compete in those IJF ruled tournaments so it has badly effected the sport of Judo around the world.

 

[jack36767]

I feel you are partially correct but omitted the bigger reason...i have an equal time in judo and wrestling and I couldent agree more about the cross training advantage
(with some grip modifications of course)
(And of course post leg grab ban judo is WORTHLESS)

Naidan Tuvshinbayar and a whole host of wrestlers were winning in Olympic Judo with yuk o's and Wazas and not going for the big traditionally "important" ippons.


this already had the judo traditionalist grumbling but when it was apparent that wrestling was going to be dropped from the 2020 Olympics thanks to Americans unique rules in folkstyles wrestlings and its failure to produce olympic medalists and thus gain traction for American TV audiences...

PLUS the traditional
"bad guys" from Muslim and Soviet Bloc countries dominating wrestling they were getting super worried about the big $$$$ American TV advertising revenue!!!!


You see... it was a very real possibility that tens of thousands of freestyle and Greco athletes from Soviet bloc and Muslim countries we're about to desend on the sport of judo since it would be the last grappling medal sport (and the Russians were already very good at it) they PANICKED and banned all leg holds...(even defensive) from the sport of judo.

This heavily advantages taller athletes and teddy Reiner of France became unstoppable but that's another thread.

you see if McDonalds can't sell french fries and soda pops to your viewer base you're just not valuable in the Olympics anymore

And all this because America had to go and invent its own style of wrestling instead of joining the rest of the world in the Olympics where they would have done great because American kids would grow up learning the Olympic style and thus be competitive or most likely dominate.


American champions would have gained traction in TV audiences and today America would have more top 20 fighters that dominate MMA and most of the grappling Sports in the Olympics but instead we invented our own particular version of a sport...like

American football vs rugby

And

American kickboxing vs international rules


America just doesn't want to compete with the rest of the world and invented its own sports.

Again.. American TV ratings were not the reason

 

[-guerilla-]

Again.. American TV ratings were not the reason

That's what they want you to believe...

jack, a little tip from the public safety world....pay closer attention to what people DO rather than what they SAY!


The Judo Community has been scrambling to find as many BS reasons as possible to justify CHANGING THE RULES however after wrestlings re-instatement they are already talking about CHANGING THE RULES back.

https://www.bjjee.com/featured/ijf-leg-grabs-may-come-back-in-judo-after-2016/

Wikipedia:
With such high costs charged to broadcast the Games, the added pressure of the internet, and increased competition from cable, the television lobby demanded concessions from the IOC to boost ratings. The IOC responded by making a number of changes to the Olympic program. At the Summer Games, the gymnastics competition was expanded from seven to nine nights, and a Champions Gala was added to draw greater interest.[127] The IOC also expanded the swimming and diving programs, both popular sports with a broad base of television viewers.[127] Due to the substantial fees NBC has paid for rights to the Olympics, the IOC has allowed NBC to have influence on event scheduling to maximize U.S. television ratings when possible

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games

The Olympics are American televisions bitch...

just imagine what ABC would think when Brock lesnar gets beat by a russian Muslim on national tv...

You think McDonald's wants to buy advertisement time on that?!?!?!

 

[Daniel Fox]

That's what they want you to believe...

jack, a little tip from the public safety world....pay closer attention to what people DO rather than what they SAY!


The Judo Community has been scrambling to find as many BS reasons as possible to justify CHANGING THE RULES however after wrestlings re-instatement they are already talking about CHANGING THE RULES back.

https://www.bjjee.com/featured/ijf-leg-grabs-may-come-back-in-judo-after-2016/

Wikipedia:
With such high costs charged to broadcast the Games, the added pressure of the internet, and increased competition from cable, the television lobby demanded concessions from the IOC to boost ratings. The IOC responded by making a number of changes to the Olympic program. At the Summer Games, the gymnastics competition was expanded from seven to nine nights, and a Champions Gala was added to draw greater interest.[127] The IOC also expanded the swimming and diving programs, both popular sports with a broad base of television viewers.[127] Due to the substantial fees NBC has paid for rights to the Olympics, the IOC has allowed NBC to have influence on event scheduling to maximize U.S. television ratings when possible

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games

The Olympics are American televisions bitch...

just imagine what ABC would think when Brock lesnar gets beat by a russian Muslim on national tv...

You think McDonald's wants to buy advertisement time on that?!?!?!

I don't want to argue, but your posts seem to imply that all of the changes in sports are due to an Islamophobic reaction by Americans. You are aware that the most decorated Olympic Wrestlers are the Russian National Team, and the majority of their wrestlers are from Dagastan, which is predominately Muslim? The US Wrestling Folkstyle would actually be putting their wrestlers at a disadvantage, because the rest of the world wrestles Freestyle. Now if there was a big American contingent that wanted to change Olympic Wrestling to Folkstyle rules then your argument would make sense.

 

[jack36767]

That's what they want you to believe...

jack, a little tip from the public safety world....pay closer attention to what people DO rather than what they SAY!


The Judo Community has been scrambling to find as many BS reasons as possible to justify CHANGING THE RULES however after wrestlings re-instatement they are already talking about CHANGING THE RULES back.

https://www.bjjee.com/featured/ijf-leg-grabs-may-come-back-in-judo-after-2016/

Wikipedia:
With such high costs charged to broadcast the Games, the added pressure of the internet, and increased competition from cable, the television lobby demanded concessions from the IOC to boost ratings. The IOC responded by making a number of changes to the Olympic program. At the Summer Games, the gymnastics competition was expanded from seven to nine nights, and a Champions Gala was added to draw greater interest.[127] The IOC also expanded the swimming and diving programs, both popular sports with a broad base of television viewers.[127] Due to the substantial fees NBC has paid for rights to the Olympics, the IOC has allowed NBC to have influence on event scheduling to maximize U.S. television ratings when possible

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games

The Olympics are American televisions bitch...

just imagine what ABC would think when Brock lesnar gets beat by a russian Muslim on national tv...

You think McDonald's wants to buy advertisement time on that?!?!?!

So a liar and a conspiracy theorist.. and don’t even know the actual mood or politics of the big countries. Yup definitely South African.

Ironically I’m teaching about apartheid right now. Funny how the world works

 

[-guerilla-]

I don't want to argue, but your posts seem to imply that all of the changes in sports are due to an Islamophobic reaction by Americans. You are aware that the most decorated Olympic Wrestlers are the Russian National Team, and the majority of their wrestlers are from Dagastan, which is predominately Muslim? The US Wrestling Folkstyle would actually be putting their wrestlers at a disadvantage, because the rest of the world wrestles Freestyle. Now if there was a big American contingent that wanted to change Olympic Wrestling to Folkstyle rules then your argument would make sense.

Maybee you should read a few more of my posts....

They change the rules of grappling sports too much in an attempt to make it more viewer friendly...largely at the behest of the television executives.

The television executives know Muslims and Russian usually beat Americans in grappling sports.

The television executives know that MacDonalds dosent want to buy an advertising slot on a sports broadcast where Russians and Muslims beat Americans

If the Americans wrestled in the Olympic style from birth (like the rest of the world) they would be competitive against the Russians and Muslims and thus win more often and then McDonalds would want to buy advertising slots on the sports broadcast where Americans beat the Russians and Muslims.

We let television executives dictate what sports are in the Olympics and that's based on American television vewiership mostly

That's how we ruined grappling sports.

Can't simplify the thread any more than that...

 

[Daniel Fox]

Maybe I am not as smart as you are because I find your simplification extremely hard to comprehend, but if the Muslim and Russian hating American's who control all of the Olympic sports only want Americans to win' then why wouldn't they get rid of folkstyle or make Olympic Wrestling folkstyle rules?

 

[-guerilla-]

So a liar and a conspiracy theorist.. and don’t even know the actual mood or politics of the big countries. Yup definitely South African.

Ironically I’m teaching about apartheid right now. Funny how the world works

I never lied about any of my accomplishments

And I supported all my arguments with facts and dates

And jack...
all the black people that worked for my familys farm were paid employees...

how about yours?

When you get finished with that apartheid section move on to the subject of SLAVERY!

You know...for comparison.

 

[-guerilla-]

Maybe I am not as smart as you are because I find your simplification extremely hard to comprehend, but if the Muslim and Russian hating American's who control all of the Olympic sports only want Americans to win' then why wouldn't they get rid of folkstyle or make Olympic Wrestling folkstyle rules?

It's not about hate or conspiracy, it's just simple economic pressure.

American television advertising is in command.

They call the shots and the IOC is their bitch.

Why don't Americans just adopt olympic sports instead of invent their own unique style that is recognized no where else in the world?

That's the million dollar question.

Some think it's because we are ethnocentric

Others think it's so we have an excuse to not compete or to explain our losses.

I think its a bit of both but most American coaches believe that crosstraining in Olympic grappling styles is CRITICAL if their athletes hope to compete and have any future after school.

And they have made an effort.

I wish they would completely drop folkstyle and have always suggested that they do just that... but it's not simple.

You can't just adopt olympic style and be competitive overnight.

It talked decades to catch up...

Decades of getting your American butt whipped by Muslims and Russians.

That's just not something the media companies
(who REALLY run the modern Olympics)
Care to invest in.

 

[Normot]

The only reason someone who wrestled wants to change Folkstyle to Freestyle is because they got ridden and couldn't deal.