How we ruined grappling Sports

[rmongler]

Not sure if McGregor is a good example he had zero jiu jitsu skills in that fight and just sat in guard and took it in the face. If you turtle and try to stand up with zero skill you get RNC'ed in seconds.

That's part of the point. Consider for a moment that you are in full guard, how can you stand up? You can't stand up from there, because his hips are blocking your legs. If you want to stand up, you need to move to some other position. It would be nice to just push him away, but since he's good at riding he's crowding your own hips and won't give you space. You need to get into a position where you can start building up base, even if he is already on top of you. Which generally means, turning down, getting your feet under you, and standing up. Ie, the 'turtle' pathway to escapes.

The presence of the cage or other vertical wall is what makes it most effective above all; as both a wedge to lean on, and as something that physically blocks your opponent from getting a good angle of attack.

 

[yetanother]

That's part of the point. Consider for a moment that you are in full guard, how can you stand up?

Go for a sub and stand up when he postures up or break his posture down and stand up when the ref tell you both to stand up. Not claiming that those two options are better.
I'm just pointing out that a fight was a bad example as Conor clearly had no clue whatsoever what do from that.

 

[rmongler]

Go for a sub and stand up when he postures up or break his posture down and stand up when the ref tell you both to stand up. Not claiming that those two options are better.
I'm just pointing out that a fight was a bad example as Conor clearly had no clue whatsoever what do from that.

Well the point was as a point of contrast; finding an example of someone who didn't try using the quarter position to stand up. There aren't too many people who Khabib has fought recently who fit that criteria (McGregor might be the only one, in fact); all the people he fought who did have better ideas of what to do on the ground, basically all looked to be escaping by standing up against the cage through the quarter.

 

[yetanother]

Well the point was as a point of contrast; finding an example of someone who didn't try using the quarter position to stand up. There aren't too many people who Khabib has fought recently who fit that criteria (McGregor might be the only one, in fact); all the people he fought who did have better ideas of what to do on the ground, basically all looked to be escaping by standing up against the cage through the quarter.

Sure, but someone who sucks is a bad example who a strategy is bad, if Conor randomly fell into mount, Khabib would have heel hooked him and you could point that bottom turtle is better than top mount.

 

[rmongler]

Sure, but someone who sucks is a bad example who a strategy is bad, if Conor randomly fell into mount, Khabib would have heel hooked him and you could point that bottom turtle is better than top mount.

Maybe; i don't think McGregor was actually as unprepared as many people characterized it after the fact (for example, in the opening sequence, i'd say it if was anyone else in the lightweight division other than Nurmagomedov who was holding onto that leg in that furball, Conor would have broken away), Khabib was just the one executing his gameplan better that night.

 

[yetanother]

Maybe; i don't think McGregor was actually as unprepared as many people characterized it after the fact (for example, in the opening sequence, i'd say it if was anyone else in the lightweight division other than Nurmagomedov who was holding onto that leg in that furball, Conor would have broken away), Khabib was just the one executing his gameplan better that night.

His jiu jitsu was at the heel hooked from bottom mount level.

 

[rmongler]

His jiu jitsu was at the heel hooked from bottom mount level.

I think that's overblown hyperbole, but im not willing to argue about it.

 

[-guerilla-]

That's part of the point. Consider for a moment that you are in full guard, how can you stand up? You can't stand up from there, because his hips are blocking your legs. If you want to stand up, you need to move to some other position. It would be nice to just push him away, but since he's good at riding he's crowding your own hips and won't give you space. You need to get into a position where you can start building up base, even if he is already on top of you. Which generally means, turning down, getting your feet under you, and standing up. Ie, the 'turtle' pathway to escapes.

The presence of the cage or other vertical wall is what makes it most effective above all; as both a wedge to lean on, and as something that physically blocks your opponent from getting a good angle of attack.

O man...thats epic

How can you stand up from guard...?



This threads difficulties are becoming more clear!

 

[rmongler]

O man...thats epic

How can you stand up from guard...?



This threads difficulties are becoming more clear!

Full guard (or 'saturday night ride' if you like) is by far the easiest position in which to hold someone down with.

 

[yetanother]

Did anyone standup with that move in modern UFC history? Doesn't seem like something remotely doable.

 

[yetanother]

Full guard (or 'saturday night ride' if you like) is by far the easiest position in which to hold someone down with.

Isn't the mount called a saturday night ride?

 

[rmongler]

Isn't the mount called a saturday night ride?

I use it in reference to finishing the double leg in that position (splitting the legs), but im sure it's been used in reference to either in different places (wrestling terminology can be very mutable depending on which side of county lines you're on).

Cruz called full mount 'honeymoon ride' during the Usman/Woodley fight, for example.

 

[jack36767]

Did anyone standup with that move in modern UFC history? Doesn't seem like something remotely doable.

Don’t worry he’s furiously looking for the local county mma fight to “prove” his point

 

[-guerilla-]

Don’t worry he’s furiously looking for the local county mma fight to “prove” his point

Jack gets angry when you present evidence.

I actually sustain my points with references, videos, and I use my real name City and background on my profile

Now that folkstyle season is over I would suggest you guys Dash on down to your local strip mall BJJ or Judo club and learn a few things about other grappling systems.... might come in handy if you ever decide to say...

compete in MMA?

Here's a quick tutorial on the guard boys...


And here's what happens to turtlers in MMA

 

[yetanother]

Jack gets angry when you present evidence.

That's a compilation of sweeps not evidence of that dubious stand up.

 

[-guerilla-]

At 4 min you can see the Cutting Edge of the turtle defense...

 

[-guerilla-]

That's a compilation of sweeps not evidence of that dubious stand up.

Actually what it was is....a great example of why rolling over to turtle is not your best option to escape the bottom position.

 

[jack36767]

Jack gets angry when you present evidence.

I actually sustain my points with references, videos, and I use my real name City and background on my profile

Now that folkstyle season is over I would suggest you guys Dash on down to your local strip mall BJJ or Judo club and learn a few things about other grappling systems.... might come in handy if you ever decide to say...

compete in MMA?

Here's a quick tutorial on the guard boys...


And here's what happens to turtlers in MMA

Didn’t you try to make an original point about rule changes automatically ruining grappling of all kinds.. period but only focused on folkstyle and left freestyle out

 

[-guerilla-]

Didn’t you try to make an original point about rule changes automatically ruining grappling of all kinds.. period but only focused on folkstyle and left freestyle out

Close...the real point was that rule manipulation in an attempt to attract television contracts is the wrong way to
Govern an ancient sport

But I forgot just how bad folkstyle has infected, affected and effected grappling sports like Judo, freestyle and greco

The complete prostitution of the grappling world at the financial behest of the Tele adverts in the Olympics has really taken my focus.

Jack, I remember you denying that grappling sports were getting pimped by the television executives..

You think they change the rules to honor the sport

They keep changing the rules
(like hand clasping)
In a desperate and misguided attempt to gain television exposure.

They want big throws and takedowns

Yet ironically shun Olympic styles

They always looked jealously at fake wrasslin, foot ball and basketball and dreamed one day of corporate sponsorship and television vewiership!

But because of folkstyle cancerous effect guys like Dan Cormier got their asses beart by Russians and Iranians in the Olympics and cemented folkstyles fate as a weird niche sport that nobody could understand and the television executives wisely accessed the situation

Americans would never beat the Russians and middle eastern countries that wrestle from childhood and focus exclusively on olympic styles.

And since Americans are still getting their asses beat at all the Olympic combat sports (and MMA)

It looks like that's our fate.

 

[I am your real dad]

Not sure what this has to do with UFC.

Maybe because it is an aspect of mma?