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How to wash BJJ Gi?

I used to wash my Gi after every class, but I realized that MOST people at my gym (and I go to a gym in the RICH part of Orange County so keep that in mind) DON'T wash their gis after every class. I've noticed some people wash once a week.

It does seem that when you take into consideration that people in Brazil wash their gi once a week that washing it every time is not necessary. For me however, I am extremely conscious about how I smell and as such I was my gi after every other class. As long as you hang as soon as you go home you should be fine. I've even noticed that my Gi doesn't smell even after two uses, but I'm not willing to take the chance.
 
30 degrees celcius is hot.

Average room temperature is 20-21 degrees celcius. A hot summer's day is in the 30s.

Water freezes at 0 celcius and boils at 100, so 30 would be one third of the way to boiling. I'd say that's pretty hot.

No, its not a third of temperature, celsius like farhenheit are not centered at the origin.

Actually 30 celsius is 81% of 100 celsius and the body temp is 37 so i say 30 is warm at most.
 
If it doesnt work, why do so many sites suggest it? And do you do this BEFORE using it for the first time or after the 1st use?

Because of sheer ignorance, those companies off-source their work to pakistan or China, even those in Brazil may buy the fabric already dyed and only work in sewing.

This is not unknown to anyone working in the textile industry, acidic dyes do NOT work in cotton, and even if they did, the acid is used in the dying process, not afterwards, they are COMPLETELY useless to fiber based textiles like cotton, they are used almost exclusively for protein based textiles, cellulose its not a protein.

"A lie told often, becomes the truth" Lenin

What its really disturbing is that there are companies that promote this, tells the ignorance on their products.

And in this age of internet and wikipedia

Acid dye - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Funny thing companies that have been on it forever like Mizuno and Fuji dont spout that non-sense.
 

They compared pants worn for 2 weeks vs 15 months. IMHO it's not hard to believe that after 2 weeks of wearing pants without washing them you can't build up much more bacteria :)

The big question is: clean vs unwashed.
 
Eurosurveillance - View Article

Here is another epidemiologic study of skin disease in Judo.

Talks bout the relative irrelevance of fomites (in this case mats) and that skin to skin contact is the most important factor as seen by how the disease was prevalent in skin to skin contact zones in judo which are the hands and forearms and the head and neck.
They didn't discuss whether the Gi's were clean or not. I'm sure that these Judoka wore clean Gi's.

Clothing add's an additional degree of separation between potential pathogens and yourself. So, it would be expected that a clean Gi would actually be protective. In fact, we use that concept in these things we call "condoms". You put a clean condom on and it decreases your risk of STD's.

Would you re-use a condom as you switch between partners every day for a whole week? :confused:

EDIT: PS. Sorry I didn't get to this yesterday, as promised. However, I was up nearly 36hrs straight and I passed out when I got home. I'll start digging around for you now. However, before I start trying to prove to you that ti's worth washing your gi, I would like you to tell me exactly what you'd like me to prove to you.
 
They didn't discuss whether the Gi's were clean or not. I'm sure that these Judoka wore clean Gi's.

Judokas dont wash their gis everyday specially since they were students, the study itself said that they barely had time to wash themselves.

Clothing add's an additional degree of separation between potential pathogens and yourself. So, it would be expected that a clean Gi would actually be protective.

What if your sweat or bacteria built in you acted like a shield? what if pathogens were more resistant to washing? But more importantly what if it makes no difference whatsoever?

In fact, we use that concept in these things we call "condoms". You put a clean condom on and it decreases your risk of STD's.

Condoms are desgined to completely isolate the penis and they are in contact with mucous membranes who lack the natural protection of the skin.

Would you re-use a condom as you switch between partners every day for a whole week?

Would you wash a condom and reuse it? hyperbole much.

EDIT: PS. Sorry I didn't get to this yesterday, as promised. However, I was up nearly 36hrs straight and I passed out when I got home. I'll start digging around for you now. However, before I start trying to prove to you that ti's worth washing your gi, I would like you to tell me exactly what you'd like me to prove to you.

That there is a statistical difference in the risk of contracting a disease between not washing your gi every use or every week, or that there is a bigger concentration of pathogens on a gi worn 1 session to worn a week.
 
Judokas dont wash their gis everyday specially since they were students, the study itself said that they barely had time to wash themselves.
Students can shower. It isn't that difficult to find 5 minutes after training to wash yourself.

What if your sweat or bacteria built in you acted like a shield? what if pathogens were more resistant to washing? But more importantly what if it makes no difference whatsoever?
It's common knowledge that we have innate defenses against pathogens and commensal bacteria that competitively out-compete potential pathogens. That doesn't mean much though. Liken it to a bullet-proof vest. A bullet proof vest will greatly increase your chances of survival, but it's not infallible. Your innate and adaptive immunologic machinery does the same thing.

Assuming you've got a bullet-proof vest on (or an in-tact immune system), how do you further prevent getting killed (or simply infected)? Well, you stay away from bullets. Rolling dirty is like working a gang task force, and rolling clean is like being a high school cop in a safe suburban town.

Condoms are desgined to completely isolate the penis and they are in contact with mucous membranes who lack the natural protection of the skin.
They don't completely isolate the penis. If you had any idea how small a virus is and then you'd realize that the microscopic pores in a condom aren't infallible. The HIV virus is about 1/50th the size of a condom pore.

I'm not going to argue silly details, however. My analogy was very valid.

That there is a statistical difference in the risk of contracting a disease between not washing your gi every use or every week, or that there is a bigger concentration of pathogens on a gi worn 1 session to worn a week.
See, this is what I was afraid you would say. You want some impossibly specific research study. You should know that we don't have the luxury of studying every single item of interest in exquisite detail. I searched for a half hour and didn't find anything near that specific and I sure as heck am not going to put together a study for something like washing your gi after you practice in it o_0
 
Students can shower. It isn't that difficult to find 5 minutes after training to wash yourself.

What its the point of arguing with evidence if you are not going to read it?

It's common knowledge that we have innate defenses against pathogens and commensal bacteria that competitively out-compete potential pathogens. That doesn't mean much though. Liken it to a bullet-proof vest. A bullet proof vest will greatly increase your chances of survival, but it's not infallible. Your innate and adaptive immunologic machinery does the same thing.

Hyperbole much again?

There are studies that show a clear increase in survival between soldiers and law enforcement wearing vests and those not wearing it. Also vests are lab tested extensively before producing.

Assuming you've got a bullet-proof vest on (or an in-tact immune system), how do you further prevent getting killed (or simply infected)? Well, you stay away from bullets. Rolling dirty is like working a gang task force, and rolling clean is like being a high school cop in a safe suburban town.

Again, hyperbole.

Would putting tinfoil over the vest increase my survivability? tinfoil is a solid so there needs to be strength to break through, does that means that its worth spending money on tinfoil to put over vests?

They don't completely isolate the penis. If you had any idea how small a virus is and then you'd realize that the microscopic pores in a condom aren't infallible. The HIV virus is about 1/50th the size of a condom pore.

Not worth my time arguing with hyperbolic comparisons, we are both graduates i presume so we can argue in a scientific basis.

I'm not going to argue silly details, however. My analogy was very valid.

No it was not, and analogies have no point in scientific discussions, unless you can prove an analogic equivalent through evidence.

See, this is what I was afraid you would say. You want some impossibly specific research study.

Science is specific, you can draw an hypothesis but its validity must be proven.

You should know that we don't have the luxury of studying every single item of interest in exquisite detail. I searched for a half hour and didn't find anything near that specific and I sure as heck am not going to put together a study for something like washing your gi after you practice in it o_0

I searched for 5 minutes and found the article that i mentioned over and over and you blatantly ignored. I even gave you hints of where to look (Japanese epidemiological studies)

Here is the study that quotes it again.

OUTBREAK OF TINEA GLADIATORUM IN WRESTLERS IN TEHRAN (IRAN)

Although the actual quoted article its not available for free.

A nationwide survey of Trichophyton tonsurans infection among combat sport club members in Japan using a questionnaire form and the hairbrush method.
Shiraki Y, Hiruma M, Hirose N, Sugita T, Ikeda S.

Department of Dermatology, Juntendo University School of Medicine, Tokyo, Japan. [email protected]

You can always write the author an email.

You seem to have a spec of intellectual honesty, so you expect to have a good discussion or do you want to flamewar/troll away?
 
What its the point of arguing with evidence if you are not going to read it?
I read it. And, it's not worth a damn. What's hilarious is that you don't realize it doesn't make your point!

Hyperbole much again?

There are studies that show a clear increase in survival between soldiers and law enforcement wearing vests and those not wearing it. Also vests are lab tested extensively before producing.
Where was there hyperbole? It was an analogy and a valid analogy. You seem to have a problem understanding simple analogies.

Again, hyperbole.

Would putting tinfoil over the vest increase my survivability? tinfoil is a solid so there needs to be strength to break through, does that means that its worth spending money on tinfoil to put over vests?
What the hell are you talking about?

Not worth my time arguing with hyperbolic comparisons, we are both graduates i presume so we can argue in a scientific basis.
No, really you can't. You want impossibly specific data. If you wanted me to present evidence that fomites are sources of infection and washing them reduces risk of infection, or something applicable to the argument and available, then I could do that. But, you want ridiculously specific stats that just don't exist.

No it was not, and analogies have no point in scientific discussions, unless you can prove an analogic equivalent through evidence.
Analogies have purpose in that they allow you to understand a concept. If you fail to understand a concept, which you do, then an analogy is in order.

Science is specific, you can draw an hypothesis but its validity must be proven.
Science is often focused, but we don't have highly focused scienctifici literature for every imaginable topic. This particular topic I searched for a good half hour and came up with the two articles you already pointed out. Neither of which, by the way, made a sufficiently good argument for either of us.

I searched for 5 minutes and found the article that i mentioned over and over and you blatantly ignored. I even gave you hints of where to look (Japanese epidemiological studies)

Here is the study that quotes it again.

OUTBREAK OF TINEA GLADIATORUM IN WRESTLERS IN TEHRAN (IRAN)

Although the actual quoted article its not available for free.

A nationwide survey of Trichophyton tonsurans infection among combat sport club members in Japan using a questionnaire form and the hairbrush method.
Shiraki Y, Hiruma M, Hirose N, Sugita T, Ikeda S.

Department of Dermatology, Juntendo University School of Medicine, Tokyo, Japan. [email protected]

You can always write the author an email.

You seem to have a spec of intellectual honesty, so you expect to have a good discussion or do you want to flamewar/troll away?
Like I said, I read it. But, I'm starting to wonder if you did.

From the article YOU posted (ironically), " However, dermatophytes have been isolated from several inanimate objects, including hairbrushes, combs, pillowcases, other bedding material and dormitory floors.3 Inanimate objects or fomites may be responsible for prolonged transmission of ringworm infections;4 the competitive wrestling environment includes many omits as possible source of contagion."

I know, I know... they didnt specifically mention "gi", right? *sigh* As if one cotton fomite is different from another *sigh again*

I didn't bother to post that b/c, it's not sufficient evidence of anything to the degree you requested. There isn't any literature available with the specific focus you require before you'll start washing your gi.

There is nothing I can do to convince you. You won't deal with any evidence other than a perfect, situation specific match. We don't have that luxury because one doesn't exist. The best we can do is extrapolate based on existing data and knowledge. But, you've already stated that's unacceptable, so I'm not going to waste my time digging through research databases and reading through articles when you will not be convinced--I've got more important things to do.
 

It said that the jeans didn't get any dirtier than not washed for 2 weeks jeans. That's still really dirty. Makes sense, as you can only make something so dirty if it moves around.
Like if you had a car and NEVER washed it, it'd only get so dirty, and stay around that level of dirty.
 
I read it. And, it's not worth a damn. What's hilarious is that you don't realize it doesn't make your point

No, you didnt.

The article said that students didnt washed because they were over 40 and there was not enough water pressure for the whole 40 so they took some time until pressure was available.

Where was there hyperbole? It was an analogy and a valid analogy. You seem to have a problem understanding simple analogies.

You are comparing something that has a huge significance to something that doesnt, in order to try and prove a point. Have you ever wrote a thesis based on actual research? how did you justified it?

You are pointing an almost textbook application of a strawman.

No, really you can't. You want impossibly specific data. If you wanted me to present evidence that fomites are sources of infection and washing them reduces risk of infection, or something applicable to the argument and available, then I could do that. But, you want ridiculously specific stats that just don't exist.

Again, where do you draw the line between practical and mysophobic? i can "prove" (not scientifically) that if we lived in bubbles we would have less chance of infection too. If we lived by people like you we had well, we had what we have, mysophobic guidelines to living.

The real world, the PRAGMATIC world requires statisticals risk/reward scenarios.

Analogies have purpose in that they allow you to understand a concept. If you fail to understand a concept, which you do, then an analogy is in order.

We people who pride on research use modelling.

Science is often focused, but we don't have highly focused scienctifici literature for every imaginable topic. This particular topic I searched for a good half hour and came up with the two articles you already pointed out. Neither of which, by the way, made a sufficiently good argument for either of us.

Actually it does.

If there is no statistical significance between not washing judogis daily and between a week then that's evidence against washing everyday. And as i said, have you tried emailing the author?

From the article YOU posted (ironically), " However, dermatophytes have been isolated from several inanimate objects, including hairbrushes, combs, pillowcases, other bedding material and dormitory floors.3 Inanimate objects or fomites may be responsible for prolonged transmission of ringworm infections;4 the competitive wrestling environment includes many omits as possible source of contagion."

So we should walk around like Howard Hughes?

I know, I know... they didnt specifically mention "gi", right? *sigh* As if one cotton fomite is different from another *sigh again*

Actually it is, porous fomites have a harder time transmitting contagions than non-porous ones. But that's not the point, does the gi presents such a concentration of pathogens that it becomes a significant source of infection?

I
didn't bother to post that b/c, it's not sufficient evidence of anything to the degree you requested. There isn't any literature available with the specific focus you require before you'll start washing your gi.

So we reach a point where evidence is inconclusive, so neither side can really claim anything.

There is nothing I can do to convince you. You won't deal with any evidence other than a perfect, situation specific match. We don't have that luxury because one doesn't exist. The best we can do is extrapolate based on existing data and knowledge. But, you've already stated that's unacceptable, so I'm not going to waste my time digging through research databases and reading through articles when you will not be convinced--I've got more important things to do.

You are not presenting data but theories.
 
You see, you're impossible.

Your own article talks about how fomites (e.g. gi is cotton just like a pillow case!) are a source of long-term infection in the wrestling environment, and you somehow fixate only on the fact that they concluded the most major risk factor was not showering immediately after a match. And yes, I did read this. I read this on Sunday! But CLEARLY not taking a shower is going to greatly increase your risk of infection. It didn't surprise me one bit. And, I never claimed the *greatest* risk factor would be an unwashed gi, I just said that it's a risk and you should wash your damn gi. And, just b/c not washing is the biggest risk factor DOESN'T mean that other potential risks should not be removed. That's like saying that b/c being discriminating with your sex partners reduces your risk of HIV transmission thousands of fold that you should't bother with a condom.

*sigh* There is NOTHING I can provide, which already exists, to satisfy your requirements.

You asked me to find a study on the following, specifically:

That there is a statistical difference in the risk of contracting a disease between not washing your gi every use or every week, or that there is a bigger concentration of pathogens on a gi worn 1 session to worn a week. -Rod1

There is no study like that. NONE! And, you won't take any other fomite as an acceptable alternative b/c somehow a cotton gi is different from a cotton pillow cover in your whacked out mind.

So, WTF am I supposed to provide you with?
 
This is a reoccurring theme with Rod1...

I'm not sure if I even understand what people are arguing about or why it matters. TS wash your gi on cold and wash it after each use. I say that because WHATS THE HARM! If you have the option to wash your gi after every use, then you should. Their is no risk if you wash your gi everyday and a larger chance at benefit (less chance of pathogens, less funky smells). People often argue, "but in Brazil they don't wash their gi's everyday or clean the mats everyday." Well do many of them have the option to wash their gi daily? No. Is there the rate of staph in Brazil as in the U.S.? No. The point is take the maximum level of precaution available to you based on your circumstances. Also, there is a cheap product called borax that I add to my workout clothes that seems to really help neutralize smells.
 
@Rod1 give it a rest! You want to be right so bad that you "used science" to prove that 30 degrees Celsius was warm not hot. All your knowledge bombs that you have dropped on us do nothing to help the TS.

What's dinner like at the Rod1 household?
Wife: how's your chicken Rod1? Mine is a little tough.
Rod1: Tough... (Rod1 rolls eyes) I would say more chewy than tough.
 
what is the status of this thread? did the dude soak it in vinegar... we need an ending to this soap opera..
 
Yeah, why would I listen to hygiene recommendations from the National Institute of Health? What a bunch of quacks. Instead I should just listen to this dude named Rod1 because his wife has a Master's degree.

I guess the takeaway from this is that Rod1 believes washing machines are a conspiracy perpetrated by the general medical community. I think this belongs in an Eddie Bravo thread somewhere.

That had me LOL.
 
You see, you're impossible.

Your own article talks about how fomites (e.g. gi is cotton just like a pillow case!) are a source of long-term infection in the wrestling environment, and you somehow fixate only on the fact that they concluded the most major risk factor was not showering immediately after a match.

Everything in the world is a fomite, again, should we live in bubbles? should we carry around antibacterial spray and spray everything we use? should we not take the bus? should we never touch people?

We touch hands in BJJ, so we should no more?

There is a big difference between potential and statistical significance. Its lazy ass part on many "experts" to go zero tolerance when there is no such pragmatic need.

Again, why single out the gi? why not wear shoes to BJJ? its disgusting how we train barefoot, why not wear masks? why not wear gloves? Why not wear rashguards under the gi?

Somehow, somewhere, you think that singling out the gi when you are groping sweaty men as unecessary risk, and calling everyone not willing to spend a big amount of resources into washing just one piece of equipment every arbitrary set of time as a sanitary risk.

Really?

And yes, I did read this. I read this on Sunday! But CLEARLY not taking a shower is going to greatly increase your risk of infection. It didn't surprise me one bit. And, I never claimed the *greatest* risk factor would be an unwashed gi,

If something is overriden it may lack statistical significance.

I just said that it's a risk and you should wash your damn gi. And, just b/c not washing is the biggest risk factor DOESN'T mean that other potential risks should not be removed.

Everything is a potential risk EVERYTHING, you just have to draw a line.

That's like saying that b/c being discriminating with your sex partners reduces your risk of HIV transmission thousands of fold that you should't bother with a condom.

Strawman.

*sigh* There is NOTHING I can provide, which already exists, to satisfy your requirements.

So that means we should accept your personal vision over the vision of others? lol.

You asked me to find a study on the following, specifically:



There is no study like that. NONE! And, you won't take any other fomite as an acceptable alternative b/c somehow a cotton gi is different from a cotton pillow cover in your whacked out mind.

So, WTF am I supposed to provide you with?

Here is the study that doesnt exists

A nationwide survey of Trichophyton tonsurans infection among combat sport club members in Japan using a questionnaire form and the hairbrush method.
Shiraki Y, Hiruma M, Hirose N, Sugita T, Ikeda S.

Department of Dermatology, Juntendo University School of Medicine, Tokyo, Japan. [email protected]


I'm not sure if I even understand what people are arguing about or why it matters. TS wash your gi on cold and wash it after each use. I say that because WHATS THE HARM! If you have the option to wash your gi after every use, then you should. Their is no risk if you wash your gi everyday and a larger chance at benefit (less chance of pathogens, less funky smells). People often argue, "but in Brazil they don't wash their gi's everyday or clean the mats everyday." Well do many of them have the option to wash their gi daily? No. Is there the rate of staph in Brazil as in the U.S.? No. The point is take the maximum level of precaution available to you based on your circumstances. Also, there is a cheap product called borax that I add to my workout clothes that seems to really help neutralize smells.

You can have enviromental, economic and or gi care concerns.

I can assure you i can go and follow you one day and point out easily in excess of 20 "unecesary risks you shouldnt be taking". Why single out the gi?
 
That whole section was so stupid it wasn't worth responding to.

Again, why single out the gi? why not wear shoes to BJJ? its disgusting how we train barefoot, why not wear masks? why not wear gloves? Why not wear rashguards under the gi?

Somehow, somewhere, you think that singling out the gi when you are groping sweaty men as unecessary risk, and calling everyone not willing to spend a big amount of resources into washing just one piece of equipment every arbitrary set of time as a sanitary risk.

Really?
Lets think about this a moment... you might want to pay attention to the gi because IT COVERS >90% OF YOUR BODY SURFACE WHILE YOU ROLL!!!

Everything is a potential risk EVERYTHING, you just have to draw a line.
That's why we don't live in bubbles, yet we own washers and dryers to clean our clothes. We drew a line between sanitary and unsanitary. You prefer unsanitary, for some ridiculous reason.

Strawman.
A word whose definition you clearly misunderstand.

So that means we should accept your personal vision over the vision of others? lol.
Pot meet kettle? The only difference is I'm far more qualified than you to discuss this. Not to mention the obvious IQ disparity. :eek:

Here is the study that doesnt exists

A nationwide survey of Trichophyton tonsurans infection among combat sport club members in Japan using a questionnaire form and the hairbrush method.
Shiraki Y, Hiruma M, Hirose N, Sugita T, Ikeda S.

Department of Dermatology, Juntendo University School of Medicine, Tokyo, Japan. [email protected]
Again, I cite the obvious IQ disparity. Did you even read this? It does not even come close to answering any questions relevant to our discussion. You probably don't even have access to the full text. You probably just say "judo" and "tinea" and jumped to conclusions like an idiot.

You've posted 2 articles which you cite as your "scientific evidence". It seems you either read neither or understood neither.

- Article 1 w/ Wrestlers in Tehran did nothing to prove your point, and in fact briefly addressed and validated my point, which is counter to yours. That is, fomites are of concern as long term reservoirs.

- Article 2 was basically about finding prevalence of tinea infections among combat sport competitors. There was no emphasis on mode of transmission, hygiene, etc.

*sigh*

This is ridiculous.
 
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