How to talk to Leftists - by Ben Shapiro

[saugeye killah]

TL; DR...

Guy sucks. He's a wannabe Limbaugh with a high pitched voice.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Do you think it's immoral to pay people 56 cents an hour?

A person only takes 56 cents an hour of their own free will. He would only take that if it were better than anything else he could get. Let's be realistic here.

 

[Peteyandjia]

A person only takes 56 cents an hour of their own free will. He would only take that if it were better than anything else he could get. Let's be realistic here.

I mention that specific figure because that is the current average wage in Vietnam factory work.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Business will do what it can to gouge people as much as possible, find that exact line of sustainably gouging people, & then go just past it. I believe capitalism does great things, I also believe it must be kept on a leash.

That describes no business I know. A business pays what the market determines the value of the job to be. If a business underpays, the employee goes to a competitor for a higher wage. If no one pays higher, then that's the market value.

The employee is not obligated to accept. He takes the best job available.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

TL; DR...

Guy sucks. He's a wannabe Limbaugh with a high pitched voice.

Hopefully one day you grow up to learn that this type of response is pathetic and is a sign of weakness of mind.

I cannot stand Obama, but I'd never look at a video posted of Obama, say that I couldn't watch it, and then add how much Obama is a tool. I'd respond to the actual argument Obama made or I wouldn't respond at all.

Your response is that of someone who thinks he knows everything yet clearly knows nothing. Listen more, talk less.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

I agree with his points, but it's to bad that he, like most other self identified republicans, won't take this argument to its logical conclusion.

His position can't be about morality, or else he's a hypocrite. He doesn't believe in exclusively voluntary agreements. He just believes in their selective application. That's not really a way to win a moral argument if you're not going to be consistent.

This.

He lost me the minute he started babbling about government coercion and SWAT teams. It would be one thing if he were calling for pure anarchy but he isn't and neither are most conservatives. He as big a proponent of coercion as anyone, he just wants it done to promote different policies and ideals.

 

[saugeye killah]

Hopefully one day you grow up to learn that this type of response is pathetic and is a sign of weakness of mind.

I cannot stand Obama, but I'd never look at a video posted of Obama, say that I couldn't watch it, and then add how much Obama is a tool. I'd respond to the actual argument Obama made or I wouldn't respond at all.

Your response is that of someone who thinks he knows everything yet clearly knows nothing. Listen more, talk less.

Clearly you think Obama is worthy of a more thought out response than I think this guy is. On that, you would be correct.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Clearly you think Obama is worthy of a more thought out response than I think this guy is. On that, you would be correct.

That's not what I said, that's what you said. Because you already have all of the answers. Lucky you.

This is a typical strategy of a leftist. They don't even need to listen to your arguments or respond to them in any depth or detail. "You're just a bad person and you're automatically wrong so I get to dismiss you and not have to bother."

 

[Greoric]

Do you think it's immoral to pay people 56 cents an hour?

No. Are people willing to take the offer? If so, who are you to say what they shouldn't be willing to take?

 

[jk7707]

That describes no business I know. A business pays what the market determines the value of the job to be. If a business underpays, the employee goes to a competitor for a higher wage. If no one pays higher, then that's the market value.

The employee is not obligated to accept. He takes the best job available.

It doesn't anymore because there is a minimum wage in place. Look back to the late 1800's and the Gilded Age in this country. You had the exact kind of gouging and wage depression that Petey is talking about. And why did it happen? Because there were almost no regulation on the way businesses could operate and they took advantage of it by paying next to nothing to their employees.

 

[Peteyandjia]

No. Are people willing to take the offer? If so, who are you to say what they shouldn't be willing to take?

 

[Greoric]

This.

He lost me the minute he started babbling about government coercion and SWAT teams. It would be one thing if he were calling for pure anarchy but he isn't and neither are most conservatives. He as big a proponent of coercion as anyone, he just wants it done to promote different policies and ideals.

Well... not anyone.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

That's not what I said, that's what you said. Because you already have all of the answers. Lucky you.

This is a typical strategy of a leftist. They don't even need to listen to your arguments or respond to them in any depth or detail. "You're just a bad person and you're automatically wrong so I get to dismiss you and not have to bother."

Here's a quote from the video you posted:

"The reason that the left has not done anything for the inner cities, despite years of dominance in Detroit is because they wanted the violence."

He could have said that well meaning people wrongly supported social programs in Detroit because they thought it would help but it didn't work out that way. He could attempted to have a nuanced discussion about how places like Detroit ended up the way they did and the myriad of factors, domestic and global, that lead to that.

Nah fuck that. Liberals are evil. They wanted this to happen.

 

[Greoric]

Keep in mind, the absolute minimum wage is $0/hr! If someone's labor can't approach the minimum wage you arbitrarily want to set then they don't even get paid 56 cents. They get paid Nothing!

 

[Peteyandjia]

They get paid Nothing!

 

[Greoric]

It doesn't anymore because there is a minimum wage in place. Look back to the late 1800's and the Gilded Age in this country. You had the exact kind of gouging and wage depression that Petey is talking about. And why did it happen? Because there were almost no regulation on the way businesses could operate and they took advantage of it by paying next to nothing to their employees.

You're grossly misrepresenting facts. Despite deflationary pressure, wages went up.

https://outrunchange.com/2012/06/14/typical-wages-in-1860-through-1890/

The only reason wages rise is through improved worker productivity, and that generally only happens with capital investment. But of course none of that was happening during the industrial revolution, right?

 

[jk7707]

You're grossly misrepresenting facts. Despite deflationary pressure, wages went up.

https://outrunchange.com/2012/06/14/typical-wages-in-1860-through-1890/

The only reason wages rise is through improved worker productivity, and that generally only happens with capital investment. But of course none of that was happening during the industrial revolution, right?

Yea you're absolutely right wages went up overall. And the concentration of wealth did even more so. There's a reason why it was this era resulted in the rise of labor unions, a standard work day, workplace safety standards, etc.

 

[Greoric]

Yea you're absolutely right wages went up overall. And the concentration of wealth did even more so. There's a reason why it was this era resulted in the rise of labor unions, a standard work day, workplace safety standards, etc.

The post antebellum period was the greatest growth in standard of living for the average person humanity has ever seen. Coincidentally, it was also one with the least government intrusion. If the result was that the average person was better off, who gives a shit if some people came out ahead?

It's almost as if people would rather everyone be equally impoverished rather than see a gap increase even if the bottom's standard of living was raised.

And just to dot all our i's and cross our t's, those improved working conditions had everything to do with increased worker productivity, and absolutely nothing to do with legislation. For proof of concept go to Zimbabwe, throw in those child labor laws, and see if you've improved anyone's situation there.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

The post antebellum period was the greatest growth in standard of living for the average person humanity has ever seen. Coincidentally, it was also one with the least government intrusion. If the result was that the average person was better off, who gives a shit if some people came out ahead?

Well said sir. I was planning my response but yours was better than mine so I'll just 2nd your notion.

It's almost as if people would rather everyone be equally impoverished rather than see a gap increase even if the bottom's standard of living was raised.

I'm absolutely convinced that this is true for a depressingly high number of people.

There is a group - almost always on the left - that revels in victimhood. They invent it when they can't find it. It's a very weird sickness in the mind. I absolutely believe that they would indeed rather see the floor drop for all if it meant that there would be fewer rich people. But their sickness would not be satisfied, they'd find another way to be a victim.

Just look at their tactics. EVERYTHING they do is in response to some perceived grievance or perceived abuse. I believe that this sickness comes from an inferiority complex. They feel inferior and despise those who are more successful.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

Here's a quote from the video you posted:

"The reason that the left has not done anything for the inner cities, despite years of dominance in Detroit is because they wanted the violence."

He could have said that well meaning people wrongly supported social programs in Detroit because they thought it would help but it didn't work out that way. He could attempted to have a nuanced discussion about how places like Detroit ended up the way they did and the myriad of factors, domestic and global, that lead to that.

Nah fuck that. Liberals are evil. They wanted this to happen.

Some are well meaning, but having observed the behavior and tactics long enough, IMO a surprisingly large amount are that conniving.