Hot Take How much more proof do you need?

[Bobby Boulders]

Yeah but he's the TEXAS CRAZY HORSE or CRAZY TEXAS HORSE as Bas kept calling him.

Just crazy horse is Charles Bennett

Of course. But if this were some kind of social experiment on the part of TS, I'd be depressed at the lack of ability for most to just simply connect the dots.

Bennett is actually Krazy Horse

 

[arcadeperfect]

It's because the HW division was able to acquire talent from PRIDE and Strikeforce. When those acquisitions happened it was able to breathe new life into the division. Currently, there's no way to replicate that since the top talent from PFL or Bellator wouldn't have the same effect. The HW division is going to be shitty for a while until there's some group of new blood that takes over. It's kind of like boxing during the Klitschko era, a crappy time until you had the rise of AJ, Fury, and Wilder.

 

[powerbottom5000]

Crazy Horse?

Heath Herring. OP is smoking crack.

 

[arcadeperfect]

'MMA constantly evolves and the athletes are far superior'

Reality: Aleksei Oleinik and Andrei Arlovski were ranked in the top 10 while in their mid-40s in the 2020s after debuting in the 1990s.

It has evolved if you look at every other division. It's probably peaked though similar to how boxing has. Champions in 10 years, hell even 20 years aren't going to look vastly superior to the current ones. The skill set for MMA peaked in the 2010s and will remain that way just like boxing peaking in the 80s.

 

[MigitAs]

I believe it now; but it was crazy af watching it happen up till now

 

[powerbottom5000]

It has evolved if you look at every other division.

Not really, man. Specialists and one-trick ponies still rule the game, by and large. Yan might be the only male champ who isn't horribly weak in one area or spams their go-to over and over. If MMA had evolved into a fully fleshed out art form with little weaknesses, it wouldn't be currently dominated by eastern european grapplers.

 

[arcadeperfect]

Not really, man. Specialists and one-trick ponies still rule the game, by and large. Yan might be the only male champ who isn't horribly weak in one area or spams their go-to over and over. If MMA had evolved into a fully fleshed out art form with little weaknesses, it wouldn't be currently dominated by eastern european grapplers.

I guess I should've clarified. I meant it has evolved, but the evolution stopped in the 2010s. If you look at footage from the 2000s there's a noticeable difference in quality. You'll see fighters trying to get standups from stalling in full guard. The fighters were also far more limited in that time. By the 2010s, everything was figured out. The fighters from the 2010s are comparable to present day.

Specialist doesn't mean one trick pony or not well rounded. They will always exist and produce great fighters. The kid that trains MMA from the get go is one of Rogan's myths. Training MMA from the beginning will create someone that's simply mediocre at everything, they won't have anything that makes them stand out from the pack.

 

[powerbottom5000]

I guess I should've clarified. I meant it has evolved, but the evolution stopped in the 2010s. If you look at footage from the 2000s there's a noticeable difference in quality. You'll see fighters trying to get standups from stalling in full guard. The fighters were also far more limited in that time. By the 2010s, everything was figured out. The fighters from the 2010s are comparable to present day.

I think the only real change that you could call "evolution" has been submission defense for the more basic and well-known submissions like arm triangles/armbars/triangles/guillotines. Those still end fights occasionally but not like they used to. Also "dominant" positions on the ground are less dominant than before (full mount used to damn near be a guaranteed fight-ender), and less fighters throw strikes on the ground now in fear of scramble opportunities, but I don't think that's necessarily evolution, just change. I do think the floor has raised a bit on striking technique as well, the average fighter of 2026 has better striking than the average fighter of 2005, but the ceiling is the same.

My point is, the elites are comparable throughout the 2000's, 2010's, and 2020's. Elite is elite. I don't think the ceiling has changed whatsoever. I don't know if floor-raising is necessarily evolution.

Specialist doesn't mean one trick pony or not well rounded. They will always exist and produce great fighters. The kid that trains MMA from the get go is one of Rogan's myths. Training MMA from the beginning will create someone that's simply mediocre at everything, they won't have anything that makes them stand out from the pack.

I agree there, and that's kind of the goal of a lot of MMA gyms, at least in America, which has kept fighters a bit stagnant technically.

 

[arcadeperfect]

I think the only real change that you could call "evolution" has been submission defense for the more basic and well-known submissions like arm triangles/armbars/triangles/guillotines. Those still end fights occasionally but not like they used to. Also "dominant" positions on the ground are less dominant than before (full mount used to damn near be a guaranteed fight-ender), and less fighters throw strikes on the ground now in fear of scramble opportunities, but I don't think that's necessarily evolution, just change. I do think the floor has raised a bit on striking technique as well, the average fighter of 2026 has better striking than the average fighter of 2005, but the ceiling is the same.

My point is, the elites are comparable throughout the 2000's, 2010's, and 2020's. Elite is elite. I don't think the ceiling has changed whatsoever. I don't know if floor-raising is necessarily evolution.

I agree there, and that's kind of the goal of a lot of MMA gyms, at least in America, which has kept fighters a bit stagnant technically.

The points you made about the grappling and submission defense are all correct, but I would still call that an evolution since every fighter has pretty much adopted it into their arsenal and it's one of the main reasons why BJJ isn't as powerful as it once was. If the floor has been raised then I would consider that to be an evolution since the average fighter has improved. When it comes to the ceiling I agree with you, I think we've seen it already. You're never going to see someone a master of all styles in MMA, that's reserved for comic books and video games. The champions in 10 years aren't going to look that much better (if at all) than the current ones we have unless they're generational GOAT talents like Mighty Mouse.

 

[BowserJr]

Waldo Heraldo Faldo

 

[BowserJr]

The points you made about the grappling and submission defense are all correct, but I would still call that an evolution since every fighter has pretty much adopted it into their arsenal and it's one of the main reasons why BJJ isn't as powerful as it once was. If the floor has been raised then I would consider that to be an evolution since the average fighter has improved. When it comes to the ceiling I agree with you, I think we've seen it already. You're never going to see someone a master of all styles in MMA, that's reserved for comic books and video games. The champions in 10 years aren't going to look that much better (if at all) than the current ones we have unless they're generational GOAT talents like Mighty Mouse.

GSP, MM, Fedor, BJ, Islam, JBJ, Werdum all mastered striking and grappling.

In terms of striking, takedowns and submissions

GSP, JBJ, Fedor, MM, Islam all mastered those

 

[BowserJr]

Heath Herring. OP is smoking crack.

Fine Texas Krazy Horse

Which ckrazy is obviously thru context clues

 

[arcadeperfect]

GSP, MM, Fedor, BJ, Islam, JBJ, Werdum all mastered striking and grappling.

In terms of striking, takedowns and submissions

GSP, JBJ, Fedor, MM, Islam all mastered those

Islam mastering striking is an exaggeration, same with Werdum. When I say mastering a skill it's on the level of Poatan's striking or Werdum's BJJ. The one who comes the closest to a master of everything is Mighty Mouse, then you could put Jones, Fedor, and GSP in a 3 way tie. Even then, you only managed to find a handful of names since these are the standout fighters which are never going to be the norm. Fighters of these types of caliber will always be a rarity.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

I guess I should've clarified. I meant it has evolved, but the evolution stopped in the 2010s. If you look at footage from the 2000s there's a noticeable difference in quality. You'll see fighters trying to get standups from stalling in full guard. The fighters were also far more limited in that time. By the 2010s, everything was figured out. The fighters from the 2010s are comparable to present day.

Specialist doesn't mean one trick pony or not well rounded. They will always exist and produce great fighters. The kid that trains MMA from the get go is one of Rogan's myths. Training MMA from the beginning will create someone that's simply mediocre at everything, they won't have anything that makes them stand out from the pack.

You could train at MMA from the start and still be a top tier grappler or a top tier boxer or a top tier wrestler. Training in MMA doesn't infer you will be a jack of all trades just like transitioning from another sport doesn't mean you will be one dimensional.

Of course training in MMA will be good and practical, the sport is literally MMA. There are already good fighters whos base is basically just MMA.

 

[arcadeperfect]

You could train at MMA from the start and still be a top tier grappler or a top tier boxer or a top tier wrestler. Training in MMA doesn't infer you will be a jack of all trades just like transitioning from another sport doesn't mean you will be one dimensional.

Of course training in MMA will be good and practical, the sport is literally MMA. There are already good fighters whos base is basically just MMA.

Of course you can but it's not the most efficient way. People have a tendency to gravitate towards their comfort zone. If you start with just MMA you'll have the urge to avoid difficult techniques and use the excuse of "sticking to the basics." For example, let's say your head movement sucks. You'll find a way to justify not using it and find a crutch to avoid learning it since it's difficult. Apply this to multiple techniques in various other disciplines and this will inevitably create a mediocre fighter since you're not really refining basics to the highest level, you're just sticking with the easy stuff because you don't want to learn the hard stuff. When you learn a singular combat sport it will force you to learn it's more advanced techniques. Going back to my example of head movement, if you train boxing you'll be forced to learn it. You'll also be forced to develop a jab and proper footwork. The best bet is to train MMA once you have a background in something so you can tailor your game around it.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Of course you can but it's not the most efficient way. People have a tendency to gravitate towards their comfort zone. If you start with just MMA you'll have the urge to avoid difficult techniques and use the excuse of "sticking to the basics." For example, let's say your head movement sucks. You'll find a way to justify not using it and find a crutch to avoid learning it since it's difficult. Apply this to multiple techniques in various other disciplines and this will inevitably create a mediocre fighter since you're not really refining basics to the highest level, you're just sticking with the easy stuff because you don't want to learn the hard stuff. When you learn a singular combat sport it will force you to learn it's more advanced techniques. Going back to my example of head movement, if you train boxing you'll be forced to learn it. You'll also be forced to develop a jab and proper footwork. The best bet is to train MMA once you have a background in something so you can tailor your game around it.

What you said applies to every sport, no matter what you would start with. Starting with a singular combat sport definitely doesn't force you to learn its more advanced techniques. There are plenty of people who do boxing, BJJ, wrestling, Judo with severe technical deficiencies, and a lack of resistance from doing things they do not like.

BJJ and wrestling (in America at least) in particular are filled to the brim with this.


People that want to be great at something are going to learn things they do not want to learn. Therefore, it really doesn't matter if they start with MMA or boxing or BJJ.

 

[powerbottom5000]

Fine Texas Krazy Horse

Which ckrazy is obviously thru context clues

I just meant you're smoking crack if you think Heath Herring would be great today. All the others I agree with, to be fair.

 

[arcadeperfect]

What you said applies to every sport, no matter what you would start with.

With MMA it'll be even more glaring because it's a combination of different sports. There's a reason why the top fighters are still guys that have a background in individual sports. Create a list of top fighters that started with generic MMA vs guys that had a specialization prior to MMA training and you'll see the difference.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

With MMA it'll be even more glaring because it's a combination of different sports. There's a reason why the top fighters are still guys that have a background in individual sports. Create a list of top fighters that started with generic MMA vs guys that had a specialization prior to MMA training and you'll see the difference.

Many of the ranked fighters today do not have a particularly strong background in another sport.

A lot of ranked fighters and even a few champions never did a martial art before MMA, and plenty more don't have a serious credential that infers any form of mastery in their first martial art.

And a decent amount, if not most fighters who started with another martial art probably did so because either they did not have an MMA gym when growing up, or because MMA gyms in general are not geared toward younger people or hobbiest. It has little to do with a conscious decision of trying to become the best fighter.



If anything, people 20 years ago said things like "you have" to go from a singular martial art first. This sounds like a traditionalist way of thinking, there is really no reason why someone could not be a great fighter training in MMA from the ground up. Fighting is too diverse for someone's base to affect them that much.

 

[BowserJr]

I just meant you're smoking crack if you think Heath Herring would be great today. All the others I agree with, to be fair.

He'd be top 10 today easy. Maybe top 5.

He hit hard, was durable which is all you need today. Plus he had decent speed which most guys don't have today