How much does explosion really decline with age?

[ChickenBrother]

So on Thanksgiving day, I took the family to our local park with a track and just for the hell of it, we all ran 100 meter time trials. I was a distance runner in my teens and 20s and not a great sprinter, but I ran 14.69 seconds as a natty 50 year old, and not sure I would have run much faster when I was younger.

I was feeling proud of myself until I looked up the world records for masters runners:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_masters_athletics#Men

I beat the world record for an 85 year old but only just lol. WTF. I always thought explosion was the first thing to fall off a cliff after around 35. So what gives? Were all these record breaking old guys on TRT/gear? Even if they were, they couldn't have been more juiced than the elite 20-somethings with actual money and sponsorships at stake. I'm frankly amazed that a 60 year old can sprint 100m under 12 seconds.

 

[Kforcer]

So on Thanksgiving day, I took the family to our local park with a track and just for the hell of it, we all ran 100 meter time trials. I was a distance runner in my teens and 20s and not a great sprinter, but I ran 14.69 seconds as a natty 50 year old, and not sure I would have run much faster when I was younger.

I was feeling proud of myself until I looked up the world records for masters runners:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_masters_athletics#Men

I beat the world record for an 85 year old but only just. WTF. I always thought explosion was the first thing to fall off a cliff after around 35. So what gives? Were all these record breaking old guys on TRT/gear? Even if they were, they couldn't have been on more gear than the elite 20-somethings with actual money and sponsorships at stake. I'm frankly amazed that a 60 year old can sprint 100m under 12 seconds.

Well, people do age differently, it seems like. Some guys are seemingly age-immune, like Robby Robinson and I guess the other thing is that the longer you are alive, the longer the possibility is that some stuff happens to you that changes your capabilities in one way or another, so that even if you're one of the immortals or Wolverine, you still might have acquired some baggage someway or another that's affecting your performance. But then other people are luckier and don't have any of that sort of baggage at all. I'm pretty sure, for example, that Nick Fury with the Infinity Formula is still worse than Cap with the super soldier serum on account of Cap's clean living versus Nick Fury's cigar smoking and drinking and what not.

Either way, the fact that you broke some superhuman 85-year old's record seems impressive to me.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Well, people do age differently, it seems like. Some guys are seemingly age-immune, like Robby Robinson and I guess the other thing is that the longer you are alive, the longer the possibility is that some stuff happens to you that changes your capabilities in one way or another, so that even if you're one of the immortals or Wolverine, you still might have acquired some baggage someway or another that's affecting your performance. But then other people are luckier and don't have any of that sort of baggage at all. I'm pretty sure, for example, that Nick Fury with the Infinity Formula is still worse than Cap with the super soldier serum on account of Cap's clean living versus Nick Fury's cigar smoking and drinking and what not.

Either way, the fact that you broke some superhuman 85-year old's record seems impressive to me.

Thanks man, I guess what I was trying to get at though is not my individual time but that the high watermark is so high for older sprinters. If you look at the table in the wiki link I posted above, the 100m world record doesn't even get over 20 seconds (which is still a fast run at 5:20/mile pace) until age 100. Granted the record holders were all genetically elite sprinters like Justin Gatlin at M35, Kim Collins at M40 and Willie Gault at M45 to M55, but it's amazing to me that these guys could still run world elite times at 40+. And this begs the question of how much does our individual ceiling for explosion really decline with age, past our athletic prime around age 20-35?

I've always felt like MOST people physically decline at 35+ due to excuses and poor lifestyle. I've tried to keep a "no excuses" standard with clean lifestyle since age 15, but lately I've been making excuses and telling myself that my shit level changes and shots for high crotches and doubles is due to diminished explosion due to being 50. But the reality is probably more on me simply not practicing them much and preferring old man upper body throws and foot sweeps because those are less taxing.

Maybe if I stay healthy for another 50 years, I can be like this dude and pull the ultimate troll job at age 100, breaking every track world record from 100m to 5K in a single day, and then breaking the marathon age world record 3 days later:

100 Year Old Fauja Singh Sets EIGHT World Records In A Row - Ontario Masters Athletics

M100 Fauja Singh was our guest at the OMA Fauja Singh Invitational Meet at Birchmount Stadium in Toronto on Thursday, October 13th – as a warmup before his participation in the OMA Marathon Championships – the Scotiabank Waterfront Toronto Marathon on Sunday. Fauja broke or set EIGHT World...

ontariomasters.ca

 

[ROcknrollracing]

A lot depends on what you did in your youth. There are older athletes in the running for GOAT status playing high level even in their 40s(Lebron, Brady, Romero to an extent, Hendo, Darrel green, Nolan Ryan etc etc.)that prove the exceptions that you lose everything after 30. You can maintain a reasonably high level to your 50s and potentially even your 60s if you are careful about it. Most people aren't going to do what they have to do to do that so they just nail it in.

 

[Fahcough]

Maybe depends on how you build the foundation attest to how long it will hold the walls up. Most of them were trained from youth with smart programming mixed with some good apple juice. (Romero)

40 isn't old, if you take care of yourself you should still be extremely capable in athletics. Yes the explosive burst drops off, the top range cardio fades quicker, most of us get a bit thicker and slow down 30s-40s. But the power seems to maintain.
Speaking as a natty of course, not a decade of science projects that blew up beyond actual physical abilities.
To answer: The explosive is still there for most part, but the recovery in breathing and muscle fatigue is obviously not in peak form anymore.

Can't speak on 50s Need you to stay kicking kids asses in footraces and pave the way.

 

[Intermission]

Well, people do age differently, it seems like.

But do people age like their parents?, My father still has fast twitch explositivity age 69.

 

[ChickenBrother]

A lot depends on what you did in your youth. There are older athletes in the running for GOAT status playing high level even in their 40s(Lebron, Brady, Romero to an extent, Hendo, Darrel green, Nolan Ryan etc etc.)that prove the exceptions that you lose everything after 30. You can maintain a reasonably high level to your 50s and potentially even if you're 60s if you are careful about it. Most people aren't going to do what they have to do that so they just nail it in.

But the thing is, the guys you listed all trained at a high level from a young age, were possibly (certainly?) enhanced in their primes and possibly extended their careers with gear. Hendo was on TRT before it was banned. I think it's beyond any doubt that enhanced guys can maintain some of their gains for years if not permanently with continued training even if they come off. I am curious if this also holds true for explosivity.

Maybe depends on how you build the foundation attest to how long it will hold the walls up. Most of them were trained from youth with smart programming mixed with some good apple juice. (Romero)

40 isn't old, if you take care of yourself you should still be extremely capable in athletics. Yes the explosive burst drops off, the top range cardio fades quicker, most of us get a bit thicker and slow down 30s-40s. But the power seems to maintain.
Speaking as a natty of course, not a decade of science projects that blew up beyond actual physical abilities.
To answer: The explosive is still there for most part, but the recovery in breathing and muscle fatigue is obviously not in peak form anymore.

Can't speak on 50s Need you to stay kicking kids asses in footraces and pave the way.

Yeah, in the modern era it's hard not to question if any athletic records are truly natty. Just talking to other wrestling and BJJ dads who also train, it seems like more than half the guys >40 yo are on TRT. Shit one dad is 34 and is on it. And I'm not even talking high level competitors, just regular guys who train and sometimes compete in local tournaments.

It's hard to find legit data over time for healthy nattys who train consistently because most people are fat AF. But I guess it's plausible the average person with average genetics who maintains a healthy lifestyle with consistent bodyweight and composition, could retain maybe 80% of their explosive capacity at age 60 that they had in their primes at age 25.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

But the thing is, the guys you listed all trained at a high level from a young age, were possibly (certainly?) enhanced in their primes and possibly extended their careers with gear. Hendo was on TRT before it was banned. I think it's beyond any doubt that enhanced guys can maintain some of their gains for years if not permanently with continued training even if they come off. I am curious if this also holds true for explosivity.




Yeah, in the modern era it's hard not to question if any athletic records are truly natty. Just talking to other wrestling and BJJ dads who also train, it seems like more than half the guys >40 yo are on TRT. Shit one dad is 34 and is on it. And I'm not even talking high level competitors, just regular guys who train and sometimes compete in local tournaments.

It's hard to find legit data over time for healthy nattys who train consistently because most people are fat AF. But I guess it's plausible the average person with average genetics who maintains a healthy lifestyle with consistent bodyweight and composition, could retain maybe 80% of their explosive capacity at age 60 that they had in their primes at age 25.

That is why I said it is largely dependent on what you do in your youth. Everybody that plays at an elite level is not on steroids while some are of course. The point is you CAN maintain or even improve explosiveness/power at any age if desired. The examples I gave are just to illustrate that even at the elite level of sports it is possible.

 

[Krixes]

I could dunk a basketball untill I was 39. I'm 45 and can no longer touch the rim. I still workout 4 days a week, and I'm in good shape but I just don't have that explosive first step.

 

[ChickenBrother]

That is why I said it is largely dependent on what you do in your youth. Everybody that plays at an elite level is not on steroids while some are of course. The point is you CAN maintain or even improve explosiveness/power at any age if desired. The examples I gave are just to illustrate that even at the elite level of sports it is possible.

Certainly an out of shape person can get in better shape at any age, but for those who are already elite, were they only able to remain elite over 40 because of gear? And even if they were clean at the time, did they have enhanced explosion and work capacity due to earlier PED use? I'm just saying it's hard to answer these questions because we don't truly know who's clean and who's enhanced. I'm talking natty norm as a baseline.

 

[Fahcough]

What they say is true about post 35(ish) , You have to train harder and smarter just to maintain what you had. Doesn't mean throw in the towel , just have to work the output : recovery with more attention.

Also hard to compare power output to sprint explosivity. I have more power and can move objects much faster but lost a step in 40 yard dash. Which comes with fear of pulling something at 100% effort.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Certainly an out of shape person can get in better shape at any age, but for those who are already elite, were they only able to remain elite over 40 because of gear? And even if they were clean at the time, did they have enhanced explosion and work capacity due to earlier PED use? I'm just saying it's hard to answer these questions because we don't truly know who's clean and who's enhanced. I'm talking natty norm as a baseline.

Absolutely not every athlete is on steroids. That statement of course doesn't carry much weight because I cannot prove anything but no the reason people stay explosive passed 40 is not because of steroids but rather the training you undertake whether on drugs or not. Even if you were a couch potato in your youth you can still improve explosiveness to a significant degree from your baseline.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

What they say is true about post 35(ish) , You have to train harder and smarter just to maintain what you had. Doesn't mean throw in the towel , just have to work the output : recovery with more attention.

Also hard to compare power output to sprint explosivity. I have more power and can move objects much faster but lost a step in 40 yard dash. Which comes with fear of pulling something at 100% effort.

For many this is true the hamstrings are much easier to tear at that age. Nordic curls and RDLs can help alleviate some of that and an appropriate dosage of sprinting.

 

[ChickenBrother]

What they say is true about post 35(ish) , You have to train harder and smarter just to maintain what you had. Doesn't mean throw in the towel , just have to work the output : recovery with more attention.

Also hard to compare power output to sprint explosivity. I have more power and can move objects much faster but lost a step in 40 yard dash. Which comes with fear of pulling something at 100% effort.

+1 to training "harder" and smarter. But by "more power" do you mean because you've put on muscle mass over the years? If you were to get back down to the same body weight and composition you were at say 25, do you think your 40 yard times would be similar?

 

[Deaths Head]

So on Thanksgiving day, I took the family to our local park with a track and just for the hell of it, we all ran 100 meter time trials. I was a distance runner in my teens and 20s and not a great sprinter, but I ran 14.69 seconds as a natty 50 year old, and not sure I would have run much faster when I was younger.

I was feeling proud of myself until I looked up the world records for masters runners:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_masters_athletics#Men

I beat the world record for an 85 year old but only just lol. WTF. I always thought explosion was the first thing to fall off a cliff after around 35. So what gives? Were all these record breaking old guys on TRT/gear? Even if they were, they couldn't have been more juiced than the elite 20-somethings with actual money and sponsorships at stake. I'm frankly amazed that a 60 year old can sprint 100m under 12 seconds.

Better equipment today ,better science definitely better supplements.

I ran a 4:15 mile at 38 and I’m not even a runner ,I trained for 2 months on my own doing cardio ,weights etc…but already in good shape and bought 200 dollar state of the art running shoes in 2013 and that’s the last time I actually ran seriously bc I thought I was going to die . I also took this supplement that increased adrenaline that was banned about a year later so ? People today can definitely take short cuts if they really wanted to .

Explosive ability definitely decreases fast though in boxing for instance you have to rely more on timing then explosive movements. Timing can beet speed which also declines , I’ve never taking TRT or anything synthetic but I know they slow down or at least reverse some off sets with age . I’m more built for sprint’s because I’m stocky but no way am I as fast as I was in 2016 when I beat my 16 year old son in a race off a 40 yard dash that’s not happening . I beat my uncle when I was 12 he was a former marine and was about 41 at the time .

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Better equipment today ,better science definitely better supplements.

I ran a 4:15 mile at 38 and I’m not even a runner ,I trained for 2 months on my own doing cardio ,weights etc…but already in good shape and bought 200 dollar state of the art running shoes in 2013 and that’s the last time I actually ran seriously bc I thought I was going to die . I also took this supplement that increased adrenaline that was banned about a year later so ? People today can definitely take short cuts if they really wanted to .

What is your bodyweight?

 

[Deaths Head]

What is your bodyweight?

I was 155 at 5”8 at the time .

 

[Fahcough]

+1 to training "harder" and smarter. But by "more power" do you mean because you've put on muscle mass over the years? If you were to get back down to the same body weight and composition you were at say 25, do you think your 40 yard times would be similar?

Power actually started in the mid 30s when branching out learning all the lifting styles instead of the typical 'Strength & Conditioning" in sports programming. The basics really are holding athletes back high school baseball had us on Bench, Squat, Clean, Push Jerk, run the track. Train like a robot, you move like a robot.

Good question on could you perform the same if you were built the same. I'm gonna say no way could catch that version, had spent 20 years as a lead-off batter & shortstop. Was geared towards explosive burst on feet with no mass needed. Was very nimble on feet, but kinda grew fond of the option to run through things instead of always around them. #foodislife

 

[ChickenBrother]

Better equipment today ,better science definitely better supplements.

I ran a 4:15 mile at 38 and I’m not even a runner ,I trained for 2 months on my own doing cardio ,weights etc…but already in good shape and bought 200 dollar state of the art running shoes in 2013 and that’s the last time I actually ran seriously bc I thought I was going to die . I also took this supplement that increased adrenaline that was banned about a year later so ? People today can definitely take short cuts if they really wanted to .

Explosive ability definitely decreases fast though in boxing for instance you have to rely more on timing then explosive movements. Timing can beet speed which also declines , I’ve never taking TRT or anything synthetic but I know they slow down or at least reverse some off sets with age . I’m more built for sprint’s because I’m stocky but no way am I as fast as I was in 2016 when I beat my 16 year old son in a race off a 40 yard dash that’s not happening . I beat my uncle when I was 12 he was a former marine and was about 41 at the time .

4:15/mile is a competitive D1 college time and MUCH faster than "not even a runner." That's borderline elite for a 1 mile specialist. If you ran that at 38 without even having been a competitive runner, I think you missed your calling as a track athlete. I note that 1 mile is a "middle distance" race that is combo sprint + endurance. Do you know your times for 40 yard or 100m?

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Strength - None

Going out and playing a game of pick up football like I was in high-school isn't happening...